paizo.com Recent Posts in Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!paizo.com Recent Posts in Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!2018-08-02T18:00:08Z2018-08-02T18:00:08ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!DM_aka_Dudemeisterhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1982018-03-18T02:07:57Z2018-03-18T02:07:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bloodrealm wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:</div><blockquote> Or you know, sell the wand you no longer need? Like it doesn’t have to be binned. </blockquote>That's pretty much the same thing, though, isn't it? </blockquote><p>Do you have a philosophical problem with selling the +1 Longsword you no longer need once you have a +2 Longsword?Bloodrealm wrote:DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote: Or you know, sell the wand you no longer need? Like it doesn’t have to be binned.
That's pretty much the same thing, though, isn't it? Do you have a philosophical problem with selling the +1 Longsword you no longer need once you have a +2 Longsword?DM_aka_Dudemeister2018-03-18T02:07:57ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!gustavo iglesiashttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1972018-03-19T17:39:38Z2018-03-18T01:29:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bruno Mares wrote:</div><blockquote><p> TOTALLY AGREE. The shield bonus to AC should be always there.</p>
<p>Also, a new comparison: a character used the "Nimble Moves" reaction and received a +2 AC bonus, but without the need to spend an entire action in his turn to be able to reaction later. If you have a shield, instead, you do need to spend an entire action to receive the same bonus (and have the possibility to spend your reaction to DR). Just seems a little unbalanced to me, once an action seems more important/expensive than a reaction.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, with this comparison or not, you still should receive the shield AC bonus in a passive way regardless of anything.</blockquote><p>A mayor difference between "nimble moves" and a shield, is that your shield not only raise your AC by 2, but also deflects the attack to the shield, reducing it by its hardness. With sturdy shields, that's a pretty big difference.Bruno Mares wrote:TOTALLY AGREE. The shield bonus to AC should be always there.
Also, a new comparison: a character used the "Nimble Moves" reaction and received a +2 AC bonus, but without the need to spend an entire action in his turn to be able to reaction later. If you have a shield, instead, you do need to spend an entire action to receive the same bonus (and have the possibility to spend your reaction to DR). Just seems a little unbalanced to me, once an action seems more...gustavo iglesias2018-03-18T01:29:59ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!Bloodrealmhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1962018-03-15T20:11:13Z2018-03-15T20:11:13Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:</div><blockquote> Or you know, sell the wand you no longer need? Like it doesn’t have to be binned. </blockquote><p>That's pretty much the same thing, though, isn't it?DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:Or you know, sell the wand you no longer need? Like it doesn’t have to be binned.
That's pretty much the same thing, though, isn't it?Bloodrealm2018-03-15T20:11:13ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!DM_aka_Dudemeisterhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1952018-03-15T20:08:40Z2018-03-15T20:08:40Z<p>Or you know, sell the wand you no longer need? Like it doesn’t have to be binned.</p>Or you know, sell the wand you no longer need? Like it doesn’t have to be binned.DM_aka_Dudemeister2018-03-15T20:08:40ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!Bloodrealmhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1942018-03-15T20:01:19Z2018-03-15T20:01:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Game Master Q wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Bloodrealm wrote:</div><blockquote> I <i>would</i> say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on, </blockquote><p>I've always found that an interesting question.
<p>A lot of people used to talk about rollplay vs roleplay and the stormwind fallacy, claiming that one can be an optimizer and a roleplayer at the same time. And theoretically, this seems true.</p>
<p>But over the years I've also discovered that some of those who make these claims are also unable to think of what they can spend their money on if not magic items. That just screams of "I can't roleplay or think of how money works in the world." If the only thing someome can possibly imagine spending their money on is items to increase their personal statistics, then that means the stormwind fallacy is false for these individuals - they cannot both optimize and roleplay at the same time. </p>
<p>And ever since 5e came out, that has been the #1 complaint of the system. "What can I possibly buy if I don't have magic items?!" Well, think about how money is spent in the real world - you can literally purchase all of that: property, political influence, donations, henchmen/servants, and thousands upon thousands of other options. You just have to think beyond the character sheet. </blockquote><p>The thing is that a lot of those mundane things are really inexpensive and/or not portable.
</p>
You can only really take a house adventuring with you if you're on the ocean (a decently sized boat) or it's magic (like an Expedition Pavilion). Even a carriage can easily get left behind out of necessity or destroyed. Hiring people means more characters to keep track of for both you and the GM.
<br />
Meanwhile, the books your character wanted? Only made a tiny dent in your adventuring loot. Same with the climbing gear and spare clothes.</p>Game Master Q wrote:Bloodrealm wrote: I would say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on,
I've always found that an interesting question. A lot of people used to talk about rollplay vs roleplay and the stormwind fallacy, claiming that one can be an optimizer and a roleplayer at the same time. And theoretically, this seems true.
But over the years I've also discovered that some of those who make these claims are also unable to think of what they can spend their...Bloodrealm2018-03-15T20:01:19ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!Nathanael Lovehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1932018-03-15T20:21:42Z2018-03-15T19:51:58Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">GM Tarondor wrote:</div><blockquote> Getting rid of the "required" stat items is my number one desired fix to the game. </blockquote><p>What annoys me is that "required stat items" were entirely an invention of Pathfinder.
<p>I played for years through 2nd Ed, 3rd ed, and 3.5 and there were frequently a few rings of protection, occasionally a cloak of resistance, and the odd belt of giant strength from time to time.</p>
<p>Only with Pathfinder and the "every character must be able to purchase every item at essentially anytime" model and with the addition of the multi stat boosting items (str and dex and con where before it had been one at most) did this alleged "Christmad Tree" become a true problem.</p>
<p>In previous editions, you got the treasure you found, and it never added up to exactly the weapon you used, the armor you used, a ring of protection, and amulet of natural amor, a cloak of resistance, a headband of three stats plus 6 and a belt of three stats plus 6.</p>
<p>It seems like just outlawing these items (or making them rarer) in organized play and not doing an entire rewrite of the system would "solve" a Whole lot of the "problems" with Pathfinder.</p>
<p>Instead we have to switch to a whole new system, and have to resonance added and a bunch of other fixes, and have most of the classes eliminated, and choose between being healed or using items. . .</p>GM Tarondor wrote:Getting rid of the "required" stat items is my number one desired fix to the game.
What annoys me is that "required stat items" were entirely an invention of Pathfinder. I played for years through 2nd Ed, 3rd ed, and 3.5 and there were frequently a few rings of protection, occasionally a cloak of resistance, and the odd belt of giant strength from time to time.
Only with Pathfinder and the "every character must be able to purchase every item at essentially anytime" model...Nathanael Love2018-03-15T19:51:58ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!JoelF847 (RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1922018-03-15T19:44:56Z2018-03-15T19:44:56Z<p>There's a lot we don't know about resonance yet (unless I missed it), which will greatly impact how it works. Without knowing this, it's hard to decide if I'm a fan of it or not, but on the whole I'm not looking forward to this system. </p>
<p>Things I'd want to know:
<br />
1) how quickly can you invest resonance? For those items that are "nice to have situationaly" can you instantly invest resonance in them, or re-allocate already invested resonance? For example, a helm of water breathing. If you don't normally invest in it, because you're on land, but are unexpectedly dumped in a water filled pit, can you either invest unused resonance or remove some from some other item with an action? or is it part of a daily ritual type thing and un-invested points can only be used for wands, scrolls and potions?
<br />
2) will permanent magic items all behave like staves in a sense where different powers have different resonance costs to activate? And you could make a new item that costs 1 resonance to shoot a fireball, or costs 2 to shoot the identical fireball, but be a cheaper item?
<br />
3) how will resonance impact things like save DCs? Are they going to be static like items in PF1, or will more resonance allow you to increase them?</p>There's a lot we don't know about resonance yet (unless I missed it), which will greatly impact how it works. Without knowing this, it's hard to decide if I'm a fan of it or not, but on the whole I'm not looking forward to this system.
Things I'd want to know:
1) how quickly can you invest resonance? For those items that are "nice to have situationaly" can you instantly invest resonance in them, or re-allocate already invested resonance? For example, a helm of water breathing. If you don't...JoelF847 (RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16)2018-03-15T19:44:56ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!Game Master Q (alias of bookrat)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1912018-04-11T15:04:56Z2018-03-15T19:33:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bloodrealm wrote:</div><blockquote> I <i>would</i> say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on, </blockquote><p>I've always found that an interesting question.
<p>A lot of people used to talk about rollplay vs roleplay and the stormwind fallacy, claiming that one can be an optimizer and a roleplayer at the same time. And theoretically, this seems true.</p>
<p>But over the years I've also discovered that some of those who make these claims are also unable to think of what they can spend their money on if not magic items. That just screams of "I can't roleplay or think of how money works in the world." If the only thing someome can possibly imagine spending their money on is items to increase their personal statistics, then that means the stormwind fallacy is false for these individuals - they cannot both optimize and roleplay at the same time. </p>
<p>And ever since 5e came out, that has been the #1 complaint of the system. "What can I possibly buy if I don't have magic items?!" Well, think about how money is spent in the real world - you can literally purchase all of that: property, political influence, donations, henchmen/servants, and thousands upon thousands of other options. You just have to think beyond the character sheet.</p>Bloodrealm wrote:I would say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on,
I've always found that an interesting question. A lot of people used to talk about rollplay vs roleplay and the stormwind fallacy, claiming that one can be an optimizer and a roleplayer at the same time. And theoretically, this seems true.
But over the years I've also discovered that some of those who make these claims are also unable to think of what they can spend their money on if not...Game Master Q (alias of bookrat)2018-03-15T19:33:47ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!LuniasMhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1902018-03-15T19:17:43Z2018-03-15T19:17:43Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bloodrealm wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">LuniasM wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Bloodrealm wrote:</div><blockquote> I <i>would</i> say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on, but Resonance also means you're going to need to keep replacing wands (especially healing wands) with better ones even though they never run out in the long term. </blockquote><p>That is, assuming wands are still capped off at 50 charges. I think it would be pretty cool if wands basically just converted Resonance to charges / spells with a set CL / DC.
<p>Let's say you find a Wand of Mage Armor (as an example). Instead of having 50 charges at a rate of 1 charge per cast you could always spend 1 Resonance to cast Mage Armor (CL 1). That saves a bunch of letters when placing treasure and ends wand spam while giving you a reason to want to purchase (and even upgrade) wands.</p>
<p>The same thing could work with staffs, but with the added benefit of having multiple spells available to cast from Resonance and using your spell DC on them. That way staves are powerful magic items instead of expensive ones.</p>
<p>Plus, there's another question to ask - how will wands and staves work with spells that have variable action costs for different benefits? Say I have a wand of the new cure spell - can I spend 3 acts to channel with it? Do I need to spend more Resonance? I want to know these things! </blockquote>That's what I mean. Even if the wands never run out of charges, they're still using a point of Resonance each time you use them, so you'll need to throw out the perfectly good lower wand for a higher one if you want it to remain an effective use of Resonance. </blockquote><p>Yeah, the system would make waaaay more sense if there was some way to upgrade your low-level wands into higher-level versions of the same spells, like upgrading a Wand of CLW to a Wand of CMW.Bloodrealm wrote:LuniasM wrote: Bloodrealm wrote: I would say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on, but Resonance also means you're going to need to keep replacing wands (especially healing wands) with better ones even though they never run out in the long term.
That is, assuming wands are still capped off at 50 charges. I think it would be pretty cool if wands basically just converted Resonance to charges / spells with a set CL / DC. Let's say you find a...LuniasM2018-03-15T19:17:43ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!Bloodrealmhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1892018-03-15T19:09:59Z2018-03-15T19:09:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">LuniasM wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Bloodrealm wrote:</div><blockquote> I <i>would</i> say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on, but Resonance also means you're going to need to keep replacing wands (especially healing wands) with better ones even though they never run out in the long term. </blockquote><p>That is, assuming wands are still capped off at 50 charges. I think it would be pretty cool if wands basically just converted Resonance to charges / spells with a set CL / DC.
<p>Let's say you find a Wand of Mage Armor (as an example). Instead of having 50 charges at a rate of 1 charge per cast you could always spend 1 Resonance to cast Mage Armor (CL 1). That saves a bunch of letters when placing treasure and ends wand spam while giving you a reason to want to purchase (and even upgrade) wands.</p>
<p>The same thing could work with staffs, but with the added benefit of having multiple spells available to cast from Resonance and using your spell DC on them. That way staves are powerful magic items instead of expensive ones.</p>
<p>Plus, there's another question to ask - how will wands and staves work with spells that have variable action costs for different benefits? Say I have a wand of the new cure spell - can I spend 3 acts to channel with it? Do I need to spend more Resonance? I want to know these things! </blockquote><p>That's what I mean. Even if the wands never run out of charges, they're still using a point of Resonance each time you use them, so you'll need to throw out the perfectly good lower wand for a higher one if you want it to remain an effective use of Resonance.LuniasM wrote:Bloodrealm wrote: I would say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on, but Resonance also means you're going to need to keep replacing wands (especially healing wands) with better ones even though they never run out in the long term.
That is, assuming wands are still capped off at 50 charges. I think it would be pretty cool if wands basically just converted Resonance to charges / spells with a set CL / DC. Let's say you find a Wand of Mage Armor...Bloodrealm2018-03-15T19:09:59ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!David knott 242https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1882018-03-15T18:47:27Z2018-03-15T18:47:27Z<p>I am interested in seeing how the new Resonance rules affect play when the players know those rules in advance. In the playtests I have listened to, I get the idea that the players did not learn about the Resonance rules until they had already burned up all or most of their Resonance points.</p>I am interested in seeing how the new Resonance rules affect play when the players know those rules in advance. In the playtests I have listened to, I get the idea that the players did not learn about the Resonance rules until they had already burned up all or most of their Resonance points.David knott 2422018-03-15T18:47:27ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!LuniasMhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1872018-03-15T18:37:22Z2018-03-15T18:37:22Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bloodrealm wrote:</div><blockquote> I <i>would</i> say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on, but Resonance also means you're going to need to keep replacing wands (especially healing wands) with better ones even though they never run out in the long term. </blockquote><p>That is, assuming wands are still capped off at 50 charges. I think it would be pretty cool if wands basically just converted Resonance to charges / spells with a set CL / DC.
<p>Let's say you find a Wand of Mage Armor (as an example). Instead of having 50 charges at a rate of 1 charge per cast you could always spend 1 Resonance to cast Mage Armor (CL 1). That saves a bunch of letters when placing treasure and ends wand spam while giving you a reason to want to purchase (and even upgrade) wands.</p>
<p>The same thing could work with staffs, but with the added benefit of having multiple spells available to cast from Resonance and using your spell DC on them. That way staves are powerful magic items instead of expensive ones.</p>
<p>Plus, there's another question to ask - how will wands and staves work with spells that have variable action costs for different benefits? Say I have a wand of the new cure spell - can I spend 3 acts to channel with it? Do I need to spend more Resonance? I want to know these things!</p>Bloodrealm wrote:I would say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on, but Resonance also means you're going to need to keep replacing wands (especially healing wands) with better ones even though they never run out in the long term.
That is, assuming wands are still capped off at 50 charges. I think it would be pretty cool if wands basically just converted Resonance to charges / spells with a set CL / DC. Let's say you find a Wand of Mage Armor (as an example)....LuniasM2018-03-15T18:37:22ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!GM Tarondor (alias of Tarondor)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1862018-03-16T00:51:13Z2018-03-15T18:36:53Z<p>Getting rid of the "required" stat items is my number one desired fix to the game.</p>Getting rid of the "required" stat items is my number one desired fix to the game.GM Tarondor (alias of Tarondor)2018-03-15T18:36:53ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!Bloodrealmhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1852018-03-15T18:14:10Z2018-03-15T18:14:10Z<p>I <i>would</i> say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on, but Resonance also means you're going to need to keep replacing wands (especially healing wands) with better ones even though they never run out in the long term.</p>I would say that everyone will be wondering what the hell to spend their money on, but Resonance also means you're going to need to keep replacing wands (especially healing wands) with better ones even though they never run out in the long term.Bloodrealm2018-03-15T18:14:10ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!PossibleCabbagehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1842018-03-15T20:54:26Z2018-03-15T17:46:27Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">bookrat wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Did anyone else notice when they said that Rings of Protection are now gone? As are almost all magic items that give a simple bonus to a stat. Cloaks of protection, etc...</p>
<p>It was towards the end of episode 4. </blockquote><p>I for one support the idea of removing items that are necessary (instead give people the bonuses they need to keep up with the math of the game) leaving people to instead spend their money and resonance on items that are fun.
<p>Like one of the reasons I liked playing Occultists in PF1 is that the Abjuration resonant power means you can equip any cloak you want.</p>bookrat wrote:Did anyone else notice when they said that Rings of Protection are now gone? As are almost all magic items that give a simple bonus to a stat. Cloaks of protection, etc...
It was towards the end of episode 4.
I for one support the idea of removing items that are necessary (instead give people the bonuses they need to keep up with the math of the game) leaving people to instead spend their money and resonance on items that are fun. Like one of the reasons I liked playing...PossibleCabbage2018-03-15T17:46:27ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!bookrathttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1832018-03-15T17:40:19Z2018-03-15T17:40:19Z<p>Did anyone else notice when they said that Rings of Protection are now gone? As are almost all magic items that give a simple bonus to a stat. Cloaks of protection, etc...</p>
<p>It was towards the end of episode 4.</p>Did anyone else notice when they said that Rings of Protection are now gone? As are almost all magic items that give a simple bonus to a stat. Cloaks of protection, etc...
It was towards the end of episode 4.bookrat2018-03-15T17:40:19ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!QuidEsthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1822018-03-15T17:32:48Z2018-03-15T17:32:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bloodrealm wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">QuidEst wrote:</div><blockquote> Incidentally, the larger hitpoint base means characters (especially from classes that weren’t using a d6) are no longer forced into having a good Con. Poor fort saves might push it, but it seems like the Fighter is probably free to leave Con at 10 if need be, like a Wizard dumping Wis. </blockquote>That's assuming the enemy damage isn't inflated similarly. We already know that player weapons have been given wildly variant damage dice when they're enhanced that potentially deal several times more damage. </blockquote><p>Even if it is inflated similarly, Con increases represent a smaller percentage change in hitpoints, so there’s less marginal cost in passing them up. I’m also assuming that class hp/level is maxed hit die from Pathfinder, and that a Wizard won’t need more than18 Con if they want to enter melee.Bloodrealm wrote:QuidEst wrote: Incidentally, the larger hitpoint base means characters (especially from classes that weren’t using a d6) are no longer forced into having a good Con. Poor fort saves might push it, but it seems like the Fighter is probably free to leave Con at 10 if need be, like a Wizard dumping Wis.
That's assuming the enemy damage isn't inflated similarly. We already know that player weapons have been given wildly variant damage dice when they're enhanced that potentially...QuidEst2018-03-15T17:32:48ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!Terquemhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1812018-03-15T17:59:10Z2018-03-15T17:30:10Z<p>I fear that at some point, somewhere, a GM is going to be in a difficult position where she is forced to either let something slide, or enforce a rule that causes a player to be faced with the situation where their character doesn't get to automatically do exactly what they want to do</p>
<p>And then, the boards will be swamped with threads decrying the "broken" resonance system and why it needs to be removed from player characters.</p>I fear that at some point, somewhere, a GM is going to be in a difficult position where she is forced to either let something slide, or enforce a rule that causes a player to be faced with the situation where their character doesn't get to automatically do exactly what they want to do
And then, the boards will be swamped with threads decrying the "broken" resonance system and why it needs to be removed from player characters.Terquem2018-03-15T17:30:10ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!Bloodrealmhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1802018-03-15T17:23:43Z2018-03-15T17:23:43Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">QuidEst wrote:</div><blockquote> Incidentally, the larger hitpoint base means characters (especially from classes that weren’t using a d6) are no longer forced into having a good Con. Poor fort saves might push it, but it seems like the Fighter is probably free to leave Con at 10 if need be, like a Wizard dumping Wis. </blockquote><p>That's assuming the enemy damage isn't inflated similarly. We already know that player weapons have been given wildly variant damage dice when they're enhanced that potentially deal several times more damage.QuidEst wrote:Incidentally, the larger hitpoint base means characters (especially from classes that weren’t using a d6) are no longer forced into having a good Con. Poor fort saves might push it, but it seems like the Fighter is probably free to leave Con at 10 if need be, like a Wizard dumping Wis.
That's assuming the enemy damage isn't inflated similarly. We already know that player weapons have been given wildly variant damage dice when they're enhanced that potentially deal several times...Bloodrealm2018-03-15T17:23:43ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!Elorebaenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1792018-03-15T15:48:13Z2018-03-15T15:48:13Z<p>I have to say, Resonance sounds interesting. If it can help foster the notion that magic items are an important and rare resource, all the better.</p>I have to say, Resonance sounds interesting. If it can help foster the notion that magic items are an important and rare resource, all the better.Elorebaen2018-03-15T15:48:13ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!QuidEsthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1782018-03-15T15:40:48Z2018-03-15T15:40:48Z<p>Incidentally, the larger hitpoint base means characters (especially from classes that weren’t using a d6) are no longer forced into having a good Con. Poor fort saves might push it, but it seems like the Fighter is probably free to leave Con at 10 if need be, like a Wizard dumping Wis.</p>Incidentally, the larger hitpoint base means characters (especially from classes that weren’t using a d6) are no longer forced into having a good Con. Poor fort saves might push it, but it seems like the Fighter is probably free to leave Con at 10 if need be, like a Wizard dumping Wis.QuidEst2018-03-15T15:40:48ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!ChibiNyanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1772018-03-15T18:39:42Z2018-03-15T15:35:16Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">RumpinRufus wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">thflame wrote:</div><blockquote>If you dump a stat, you should suffer for it.</blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">PossibleCabbage wrote:</div><blockquote>Like it or not, but "It's more painful to dump Charisma" is good design.</blockquote><p>I... I don't play games to suffer. I don't play games to feel pain.
<p>And I don't believe a Con-style "everyone must have 10-14 on this ability score" is good game design. Good game design stimulates <i>varied</i> builds that look <i>different</i> from each other. We don't want to force everyone to have a 14 in every ability score - that would be <i>horribly</i> boring. It's bad enough that you already virtually NEED Dex and Con, such that everyone puts at least 10-14 in those scores. We don't want to penalize <i>everyone</i> who dumps a certain score, we want to expand the range of viable builds. But if having a 7 Cha means I can't drink potions... well, then that's not viable. </blockquote><p>Goal of CHA buff was not to "force" every character to have balanced stats. It was to make it so if characters wanted to have big strengths, it would come with a weakness. You would see pretty much every Magus guide tell you to dump CHA to 7 every time to pump DEX and things like that. Now the "best build" is not as cut and dry, there's consequences to every decision you take and no build is "perfect". This should encourage more variety in ability score spreads.
<p>Now won't be yelled at for being "subpotimal" because you have 12 CHA on the martial dude, it might actually be a legitimate build!</p>RumpinRufus wrote:thflame wrote:If you dump a stat, you should suffer for it.
PossibleCabbage wrote:Like it or not, but "It's more painful to dump Charisma" is good design.
I... I don't play games to suffer. I don't play games to feel pain. And I don't believe a Con-style "everyone must have 10-14 on this ability score" is good game design. Good game design stimulates varied builds that look different from each other. We don't want to force everyone to have a 14 in every ability score -...ChibiNyan2018-03-15T15:35:16ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!LuniasMhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1762018-03-15T17:33:54Z2018-03-15T15:26:25Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">LuZeke wrote:</div><blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Sayt wrote:</div><blockquote>As for analysing the tidbits that have been released so far, can we not doomsday the changes by plopping them into PF1E, without the context of the rest of the system?</blockquote>I ask you the same thing, what would you have people do then? </blockquote><p>Ideally, compare and contrast the rules between editions and posit on what the new rules imply for Pathfinder 2e's general design and new math / balance.
<p>Consider the following statement: "We can't use Wands of CLW and potions to heal up after every fight like we used to? Now every group requires a cleric for healing!" This statement makes a few assumptions that utterly undermine it - we don't know about whether there are other methods of healing, such as resting or skills or non-magic items. We don't know if there are more classes with powerful healing abilities available to choose from that would reduce the need for a cleric. We don't know if we will absolutely need to heal after every fight like we were required to in Pathfinder just to survive a round of attacks. We don't know all the details of damage mitigation (although we do know some reactions can do so). We don't know if the available healing spells will be stronger in general, thus negating the need for supplementary items.</p>
<p>Judging the new tidbits based on Pathfinder 1e's ruleset is pointless. The new system almost definitely uses different standards of balance, math, and challenge than the previous edition, and until we know that information it's difficult to judge the merit of what we do know.</p>LuZeke wrote:Sayt wrote:As for analysing the tidbits that have been released so far, can we not doomsday the changes by plopping them into PF1E, without the context of the rest of the system?
I ask you the same thing, what would you have people do then? Ideally, compare and contrast the rules between editions and posit on what the new rules imply for Pathfinder 2e's general design and new math / balance. Consider the following statement: "We can't use Wands of CLW and potions to heal up...LuniasM2018-03-15T15:26:25ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!Phantasmisthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1752018-03-15T14:55:29Z2018-03-15T14:55:29Z<p>I'm fine with everyone using a skill untrained unless the GM says otherwise. The resonance subsystem seems slightly ham fisted but not terribly so. It also sounds like UMD on steroids.</p>I'm fine with everyone using a skill untrained unless the GM says otherwise. The resonance subsystem seems slightly ham fisted but not terribly so. It also sounds like UMD on steroids.Phantasmist2018-03-15T14:55:29ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion: Pathfinder Playtest parts 3 & 4 with the Glass Cannon Podcast is released!Mustachioedhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uz69&page=4?Pathfinder-Playtest-parts-3-4-with-the-Glass#1742018-03-15T20:19:30Z2018-03-15T14:46:56Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mark Seifter wrote:</div><blockquote> Except for a particular time when my playtesters explicitly tried to see if they could get away with saving money on CLW wand spam despite being high level adventurers who could afford a better wand, and a few extreme stress test situations where I told them "This is the only fight today. Nova your heart out," my playtest group never really hit hard against the resonance caps, even the ones with lower Charisma. </blockquote><p>Then why not change how the wands work, rather than making an entirely new (& confusing) system?Mark Seifter wrote:Except for a particular time when my playtesters explicitly tried to see if they could get away with saving money on CLW wand spam despite being high level adventurers who could afford a better wand, and a few extreme stress test situations where I told them "This is the only fight today. Nova your heart out," my playtest group never really hit hard against the resonance caps, even the ones with lower Charisma.
Then why not change how the wands work, rather than making an...Mustachioed2018-03-15T14:46:56Z