# Sooo any chance of including metres in this one?

### Prerelease Discussion

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wait, if 20 ft are 6 m, wouldn't 100 ft be 30 m? with 40 m you'd be off 10 m which is 30-something ft. and being off 30-something ft at a distance of 100 ft is, like a third of the distance.
and this is where it gets frustrating

The Sideromancer wrote:
I now realize I'm missing another speed unit I use frequently (probably being the actual third): fractions of c.

Oh yah! I sometimes think of that too. Usually in sci-fi thingies.

KSP helped me understand m/s quite well. Yay!

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30 meters is 98.4252 feet, off by about 1 foot six inches

it was exhausting

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You can take me bushels and pecks from me cold, dead hands!
(How you could affect the temperature a 4" unit of measure, I don't know, but it sounded cool.)

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Don't get me started on temperature. How shortsighted do you have to be to think "the lowest temperature attainable with current refrigeration" is going to be enduring enough to be the 0 of a scale? At least Rankie has one reasonable calibration point.

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When I was in high school, in Iowa, in the 70s, we learnt all about the metric system, and the teachers told us that in the next few years, everybody in the US would be switching to metric. Obviously that never happened.

Now I live in France, and all the PF games use 1.5m squares. Anytime I use my English-language PF books, I have to convert units from meters, to squares, and back to feet, or vice-versa. All the weights are in kg, but they are converted from pounds at 1 lb = 0.5 kg. Again, not really that difficult.

There's no reason for PF2.0 books to include measurements in metric. The French publisher of PF, Black Book Editions, publishes everything with 5' = 1.5m and 1 lb = 0.5 kg. And again, conversions aren't really that difficult. 9m movement speed is 6 squares, is 30'. No big deal.

So this is really a non issue for folks who live in metric land.

Wheldrake wrote:

When I was in high school, in Iowa, in the 70s, we learnt all about the metric system, and the teachers told us that in the next few years, everybody in the US would be switching to metric. Obviously that never happened.

Now I live in France, and all the PF games use 1.5m squares. Anytime I use my English-language PF books, I have to convert units from meters, to squares, and back to feet, or vice-versa. All the weights are in kg, but they are converted from pounds at 1 lb = 0.5 kg. Again, not really that difficult.

There's no reason for PF2.0 books to include measurements in metric. The French publisher of PF, Black Book Editions, publishes everything with 5' = 1.5m and 1 lb = 0.5 kg. And again, conversions aren't really that difficult. 9m movement speed is 6 squares, is 30'. No big deal.

So this is really a non issue for folks who live in metric land.

But what about English-speaking Metric land?

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The Sideromancer wrote:
But what about English-speaking Metric land?

I think Brits and Canadians and Australians all still have a pretty clear idea of what feet and pounds are, and have no problem using those measurements. Alternatively, they could use the 5' = 1.5m and 1 lb = 0.5kg, just like the French. But I suspect they don't have alternate publishers for Paizo material, and will simply use the feet and pounds in the PF books.

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Lucas Yew wrote:
Speaking of which, why did the U.S. fail to introduce metric properly? I've heard rumors about bin Laden's attack on New York invoking fervent patriotism nationwide having to do with its last straw, but surely that alone can't be the whole story...

Believe it or not, there's serious advantages to the Imperial system. It's a hell of a lot easier to eyeball certain measurements (for example, the foot is about the length of the average foot. The inch about a thumb's length, a yard is about a single walking pace). When precise measurements aren't required it's fantastic. Day to day life doesn't really require precise measurements, and anything that does you're going to use rulers/measuring tape/scales anyway so the system doesn't matter at that point.

Metric is great at converting, but really, you don't need to convert that often. I honestly don't remember how many feet are in a mile, but I know how long a mile is, and can visualize .5 miles easier than 2,640 feet.

 RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

The Sideromancer wrote:
Don't get me started on temperature. How shortsighted do you have to be to think "the lowest temperature attainable with current refrigeration" is going to be enduring enough to be the 0 of a scale? At least Rankie has one reasonable calibration point.

It's not actually known/agreed upon why Fahrenheit set the ends of his scale where he did. "0 is the coldest temperature I've ever experienced" is just one of several competing hypotheses.

It's certainly not based on actual refrigeration, as it dates back to the 1700s, far before the invention of the refrigerator.

Defining temperature itself is pretty funky when you start really getting into the nitty-gritty physics of it.

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Pathfinder has enough mythological creatures in it, let's not add fictional units of measure as well.

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Coridan wrote:

You know, I did have a laugh out of that website, especially out of the "science is corrupt, in fact a fictitious made up entity controls the weather!" part and the "Yes, I believe God has given me the gift of wisdom." passage. You Americans are such funny peoples.

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Coridan wrote:

It's a hell of a lot easier to eyeball certain measurements (for example, the foot is about the length of the average foot. The inch about a thumb's length, a yard is about a single walking pace).

hmm? a meter is about the length of your left shoulder to your right hand, 2 m is the height of a door, 1 km is about 10 minutes of walking, 20 cm is the average length of an European's penis...

Gorbacz wrote:
You know, I did have a laugh out of that website, especially out of the "science is corrupt, in fact a fictitious made up entity controls the weather!" part and the "Yes, I believe God has given me the gift of wisdom." passage. You Americans are such funny peoples.

Hey, man, don't lump us all together. I'm certainly not a part of that nonsense, and will never accept it as something intrinsic to America.

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Hythlodeus wrote:
Coridan wrote:

It's a hell of a lot easier to eyeball certain measurements (for example, the foot is about the length of the average foot. The inch about a thumb's length, a yard is about a single walking pace).

hmm? a meter is about the length of your left shoulder to your right hand, 2 m is the height of a door, 1 km is about 10 minutes of walking, 20 cm is the average length of an European's penis...

You know things have gone too far when Germans start to measure things in penises.

luckily, I'm not German

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Hythlodeus wrote:
luckily, I'm not German

Wait, you're Austrian?

PHEW! Then everything is OK, Austrians using phallic measurements is perfectly normal, the world is fine, we're fine.

:)
I don't regret ending that post with that measurement

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If you really need reference points

But seriously, comparison points or lack thereof can go both ways. I have no idea what a gallon or a force-pound or 90F is, but I know a litre is the size of my water bottle (I used to camp alot so I have high capacity containers), 10N is the weight of that water bottle when it's full, and that I stop needing a sweater around 16C.

And with just one look I could see that the length conversion referencing points in that comic were not made by Europeans

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Oh yeah, I forgot completely about how I don't comprehend Fahreinheit either. It is just simpler to have "0 Celsius is freezing point, 100 is boiling point" if you ask me.

Oh yeah, I forgot completely about how I don't comprehend Fahreinheit either. It is just simpler to have "0 Celsius is freezing point, 100 is boiling point" if you ask me.

I only know 2 things about fairinheight 1. 30 is freezing(which is weird) and 2. -40 in celsius is also -40 in fairinheight

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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
doomman47 wrote:
I only know 2 things about fairinheight 1. 30 is freezing(which is weird) and 2. -40 in celsius is also -40 in fairinheight

Well, you know *one* thing: -40 in celsius is also -40 in Fahrenheit.

But freezing in Fahrenheit is +32 degrees.
Which is even more weird

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doomman47 wrote:
Oh yeah, I forgot completely about how I don't comprehend Fahreinheit either. It is just simpler to have "0 Celsius is freezing point, 100 is boiling point" if you ask me.
I only know 2 things about fairinheight 1. 30 is freezing(which is weird) and 2. -40 in celsius is also -40 in fairinheight

Fahrenheit is easy. 0 is cold, 100 is hot, 50 is a little chilly, and 75 is pleasant.

I'm American. Fahrenheit is for weather and Celsius is for chemistry. Kelvin is for physics.

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Umm, that says nothing to me. Cold and Warm is relative were you live, people who live in warmer regions would find Finnish lukewarm cold :p

Anyway, if its too overwhelming thing to include meters and feets for descriptions, I'd rather they include neither and just have size comparison pictures like Cypher System's bestiaries do.

(that link does also show how Monte Cook Games handles feets and meters too for those who are afraid it will somehow ruin everything to include both)

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I think it should have both. I have been told that the Spanish translation already has both. It has the imperial measurement followed by the metric measurement in parentheses.

I think it makes more sense to use imperial units by default in a medieval fantasy game, but it's good to also include the metric units for people who aren't familiar with the imperial units and have trouble visualizing them.

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Temperature is another case, I think, where broad, narrative-based measurements are better. Maybe with a few example numbers in Fahrenheit and Celsius and such, but otherwise, it's "Normal," "Hot/Cold" (causes some discomfort, exposure without gear levies penalties after a time), "Burning Hot/Freezing Cold" (deserts, tundra, stuff that can kill you) and "Extreme" (battling a Death Knight inside a lava-filled chamber atop chunks of rock slowly melting into the magma).

Temperature is another case, I think, where broad, narrative-based measurements are better. Maybe with a few example numbers in Fahrenheit and Celsius and such, but otherwise, it's "Normal," "Hot/Cold" (causes some discomfort, exposure without gear levies penalties after a time), "Burning Hot/Freezing Cold" (deserts, tundra, stuff that can kill you) and "Extreme" (battling a Death Knight inside a lava-filled chamber atop chunks of rock slowly melting into the magma).

you leave Darion Mograine alone

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"Hot" and "cold" are relative. -20 C sends Brits and Belgians into national emergency with schools closed and airports shut down, while in Poland it's just regular, slightly cold, weather.

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distances should be written in metres
weight in grames
energy damage in ampers
time in seconds
hit points in moles
temperature in kelvins
light in kandelas

Make Pathfinder SI again

doomman47 wrote:
Temperature is another case, I think, where broad, narrative-based measurements are better. Maybe with a few example numbers in Fahrenheit and Celsius and such, but otherwise, it's "Normal," "Hot/Cold" (causes some discomfort, exposure without gear levies penalties after a time), "Burning Hot/Freezing Cold" (deserts, tundra, stuff that can kill you) and "Extreme" (battling a Death Knight inside a lava-filled chamber atop chunks of rock slowly melting into the magma).
you leave Darion Mograine alone

I have no idea what that means.

Gorbacz wrote:
"Hot" and "cold" are relative. -20 C sends Brits and Belgians into national emergency with schools closed and airports shut down, while in Poland it's just regular, slightly cold, weather.

It's safe to assume a pretty general baseline. People from ancestries or cultures where you live in colder or hotter climes can maybe have a resistance (don't suffer penalties from Hot or Cold environments, small resistance to those damage types), for instance. And it would make a pretty good feat for explorer types.

doomman47 wrote:
Temperature is another case, I think, where broad, narrative-based measurements are better. Maybe with a few example numbers in Fahrenheit and Celsius and such, but otherwise, it's "Normal," "Hot/Cold" (causes some discomfort, exposure without gear levies penalties after a time), "Burning Hot/Freezing Cold" (deserts, tundra, stuff that can kill you) and "Extreme" (battling a Death Knight inside a lava-filled chamber atop chunks of rock slowly melting into the magma).
you leave Darion Mograine alone

I have no idea what that means.

Gorbacz wrote:
"Hot" and "cold" are relative. -20 C sends Brits and Belgians into national emergency with schools closed and airports shut down, while in Poland it's just regular, slightly cold, weather.
It's safe to assume a pretty general baseline. People from ancestries or cultures where you live in colder or hotter climes can maybe have a resistance (don't suffer penalties from Hot or Cold environments, small resistance to those damage types), for instance. And it would make a pretty good feat for explorer types.

Darion Mograine is the leader of the death knights and helps defend the world from tyrannical undead king, and is now aiding in the salvation of the world against invading deamon hoards of near unlimited proportions

Gorbacz wrote:
"Hot" and "cold" are relative. -20 C sends Brits and Belgians into national emergency with schools closed and airports shut down, while in Poland it's just regular, slightly cold, weather.

wish the winters over here were only -20C..... Poland is lucky if that's the worst they have to deal with for winter

Funny, i use metric system IRL, yet in fantasy system like pathfinder using pints/feet/pounds feels medieval so i prefer that. I guess as an option for some people it would be beneficial.

doomman47 wrote:
doomman47 wrote:
Temperature is another case, I think, where broad, narrative-based measurements are better. Maybe with a few example numbers in Fahrenheit and Celsius and such, but otherwise, it's "Normal," "Hot/Cold" (causes some discomfort, exposure without gear levies penalties after a time), "Burning Hot/Freezing Cold" (deserts, tundra, stuff that can kill you) and "Extreme" (battling a Death Knight inside a lava-filled chamber atop chunks of rock slowly melting into the magma).
you leave Darion Mograine alone

I have no idea what that means.

Gorbacz wrote:
"Hot" and "cold" are relative. -20 C sends Brits and Belgians into national emergency with schools closed and airports shut down, while in Poland it's just regular, slightly cold, weather.
It's safe to assume a pretty general baseline. People from ancestries or cultures where you live in colder or hotter climes can maybe have a resistance (don't suffer penalties from Hot or Cold environments, small resistance to those damage types), for instance. And it would make a pretty good feat for explorer types.
Darion Mograine is the leader of the death knights and helps defend the world from tyrannical undead king, and is now aiding in the salvation of the world against invading deamon hoards of near unlimited proportions

Ah, okay. Well, presumably your epic battle in the volcano with the Death Knight isn't against one of the good ones!

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DarkPhoenixx wrote:
Funny, i use metric system IRL, yet in fantasy system like pathfinder using pints/feet/pounds feels medieval so i prefer that. I guess as an option for some people it would be beneficial.

except people didn't measure like that back then, they measured in barley grains and how far an ox could move in a day of plowing

Its apparently World of Warcraft reference?

Anyhoo, still wondering why people have to be rude. Its not like meter discussions are on level of Paladin debates yet!

doomman47 wrote:
doomman47 wrote:
Temperature is another case, I think, where broad, narrative-based measurements are better. Maybe with a few example numbers in Fahrenheit and Celsius and such, but otherwise, it's "Normal," "Hot/Cold" (causes some discomfort, exposure without gear levies penalties after a time), "Burning Hot/Freezing Cold" (deserts, tundra, stuff that can kill you) and "Extreme" (battling a Death Knight inside a lava-filled chamber atop chunks of rock slowly melting into the magma).
you leave Darion Mograine alone

I have no idea what that means.

Gorbacz wrote:
"Hot" and "cold" are relative. -20 C sends Brits and Belgians into national emergency with schools closed and airports shut down, while in Poland it's just regular, slightly cold, weather.
It's safe to assume a pretty general baseline. People from ancestries or cultures where you live in colder or hotter climes can maybe have a resistance (don't suffer penalties from Hot or Cold environments, small resistance to those damage types), for instance. And it would make a pretty good feat for explorer types.
Darion Mograine is the leader of the death knights and helps defend the world from tyrannical undead king, and is now aiding in the salvation of the world against invading deamon hoards of near unlimited proportions
Ah, okay. Well, presumably your epic battle in the volcano with the Death Knight isn't against one of the good ones!

per the lore unless I missed something there's no evil death knights per say currently

Its apparently World of Warcraft reference?

that it was

Anyhoo, still wondering why people have to be rude. Its not like meter discussions are on level of Paladin debates yet!

Because adding meters to the game would not allow me to play my character to the fullest potential of the imperial measurement system. It lowers the lore's value by making things easily divisible by 10 and we cant have that in my game!

DarkPhoenixx wrote:
Funny, i use metric system IRL, yet in fantasy system like pathfinder using pints/feet/pounds feels medieval so i prefer that. I guess as an option for some people it would be beneficial.

Same thing here. We use metric, but that seems too modern for fantasy.

for Sci-Fi though ...

doomman47 wrote:
DarkPhoenixx wrote:
Funny, i use metric system IRL, yet in fantasy system like pathfinder using pints/feet/pounds feels medieval so i prefer that. I guess as an option for some people it would be beneficial.
except people didn't measure like that back then, they measured in barley grains and how far an ox could move in a day of plowing

Pound is like 7k barley grains, is it not? And inch is length of a finger or so.

DarkPhoenixx wrote:
doomman47 wrote:
DarkPhoenixx wrote:
Funny, i use metric system IRL, yet in fantasy system like pathfinder using pints/feet/pounds feels medieval so i prefer that. I guess as an option for some people it would be beneficial.
except people didn't measure like that back then, they measured in barley grains and how far an ox could move in a day of plowing
Pound is like 7k barley grains, is it not? And inch is length of a finger or so.

no idea they used barley grains for distance

Gorbacz wrote:
"Hot" and "cold" are relative. -20 C sends Brits and Belgians into national emergency with schools closed and airports shut down, while in Poland it's just regular, slightly cold, weather.

Hey, Brit here with some recent 0erspective: -20C would not be a national emergency, cause -7 is a national emergency as happened 2 weeks ago. -20C would be aa full blown national crisis, partly cause if the air around Britain gets that cold the windstorms and other weather that comes with it is gonna make it feel like -30, and we dont have the gritting stocks to keep roads free of.ice if conditions get that bad. Our inrastrucure just isnt designed to deal with that range of temperatures so everyone would be housebound for the duration. And thats before gas stocks start running out.

Huh. -10C here is rather mild weather. -20C is somewhat cold yeah.

idk, we had -23°C last week with pretty chilly wind. life went on as normal, I mean it is winter, of course it is cold in winter, why is everybody surprised about that?

We dont get weather below -15 like..
Ever. We're not used to it as a people, but most of us can hamdle it on a personal level. The problem is we're not setup to deal with it on an infrastructure level, partly because if sustained underfunding of the relevant services and infrastructure.

that's problematic, but don't worry, you're part of a larger political union that can and will support you if infrastructure breaks down.
oh, wait..
jokes aside, climate change will make temperatures below 20° more common in the UK, thereshould really be plans put in motion to handle that type of temperatures

Dude, ouch. Also preaching to the choir here, so theres that. But lets not derail this thread into the bass-ackwards politics of my country.

For my money, I use metric in everything, would love temperature in celcius cause i have no head for Fahrenheit but everything else in Imperial cause it feels more famtasy.

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Elegos wrote:
For my money, I use metric in everything, would love temperature in celcius cause i have no head for Fahrenheit but everything else in Imperial cause it feels more famtasy.

Same here, cant get my head around Fahrenheit for some reason.

Snow removal infrastructure is definitely a part of how problematic weather changes can be. With me in south Ontario, a lot of roads are salted because it only rarely goes below a point where the lower freezing point can't keep ice from forming. With neither a set of plows nor a way to prevent refreezing into slippery ice (and with nobody having dedicated tires for snowy conditions), it's entirely possible that any snowfall of significant size could shut down the highway system.

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