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We have plenty of detail on the Inner Sea region and a couple of dedicated books about the Dragon Empires. We’ve had material on the rest of the solar system (and this is before Starfinder). Aquatic Adventures even gave us a gazetteer on Golarion’s oceans. And in all that time, we barely have any material on Arcadia, Azlantl, southern Garund, eastern Casmaron, and Sarusan. I think Distant Shores had, what, six cities?
Just for the sake of filling in the map, if nothing else, will we get to see these places finally get fleshed out? At least to the extent the Dragon Empires did?
That would be really cool. Have PF2 focus on a different part of the planet.
As an added bonus, it'd go a long way towards explaining the prevalence of goblins as heroes. A different part of the world would have different goblin cultures who don't act like the psychotic little buggers we all know and love in the Inner Seas.
The playtest AP seems to be in the typical inner sea places like Varisia and Cheliax, tho...
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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We'll do minor check-ins now and again as APs and other initiatives dictate, but for now there are still a few highly appealing nations in the Inner Sea Region that have not gotten their due, and they presently take priority.
We'll get to that other stuff, though. I can see a very clear path in that direction that I'm not sure I could a year or two ago.
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Would love to see a Vudra book or AP!
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I'm not sure I'd want to fill in the entire map, since sometimes the mystery is cooler than the resolution. Like I don't really need to know what's going on in Sarusan any more than I really need to know what's going in in the Eye of Abednago. It's just more ominous to leave that continent as the place monsters come from, and ships don't return.
All the places near the Inner Sea (and Arcadia) I'd like to see more on. But Sarusan is probably best left for whenever Paizo decides to do another Mythic AP.
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Yeah, Sarusan is a very very low priority for further exploration. It's sort of off-map on purpose.
It’s where the cool kids live.
We'll do minor check-ins now and again as APs and other initiatives dictate, but for now there are still a few highly appealing nations in the Inner Sea Region that have not gotten their due, and they presently take priority.
We'll get to that other stuff, though. I can see a very clear path in that direction that I'm not sure I could a year or two ago.
That’s really good to hear. I’ll never use it, but I’d love to read more about casmaron, in particular.
I agree with the OP. I know I have two players in my group that would love to do more stuff in the Dragon Empires and I always have to answer: "Well, with the Gazeteer and the Primer it really doesn't go into depth. A lot of it is 'There'd be monsters' information. So I could TRY to use that for a homebrew campaign, but I really would love to wait for more information."
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I'm wondering if we stick to the current Golarion continuity or if there is going to be a major event to mark the move from PF1 to PF2.
Obviously there is still quite a lot of untapped potential in the Inner Sea Region (looking at you Nex/Geb), but some places could benefit of a little shake-up.
Also Goblins now becoming Core, which also should make them a bit more prevalent around in different parts of Golarian, could maybe also have an effect on the Inner Sea setting.
I'm wondering if we stick to the current Golarion continuity or if there is going to be a major event to mark the move from PF1 to PF2.
We already know that. No major event, no Spell Plague (or whatever it was called), but the new setting just takes all the changes made by the APs in count. And I guess the last AP will deal with the rise of Goblinkind to PC status in some way
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The mysteries of Casmaron have been calling to me for a while. There's some really excellent potential just east of Qadira... and Osirion isn't the only really-ancient-civilization game in town. It'd be nice to spread out a little bit too and learn about the history of Mesopotamia--sorry, I mean Ninshabur.
We already know that. No major event, no Spell Plague (or whatever it was called), but the new setting just takes all the changes made by the APs in count. And I guess the last AP will deal with the rise of Goblinkind to PC status in some way
Oh ok, I guess I missed that information and I'm fine with that, because I like Golarion very much like it is, but some regions become less interesting after the events of their respective APs.
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At least the setting material does not have to be reset because of having a new edition. With the Campaign Setting line, Paizo can mostly build on what already exists and expand into new areas as though there was no change of edition.
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I was really hoping we would have had a hardcover guide to Tian and at least a gaz for Arcadia.
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I was really hoping we would have had a hardcover guide to Tian and at least a gaz for Arcadia.It was stated that sales of existing Tian material, while not horrible, didn't warrant any major expansions focused on the area.
To be clear, I’m not even looking for major expansions anywhere. I just want to know what all the rest of the planet’s nations look like, major cities and so forth. As it stands, given how little the rest of the planet interacts with the Inner Sea region, one might almost think they’re not even there.
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I know this isn't quite the place for it but I'd love to see a PFS season centered around getting the Society to Arcadia. Building the resources for it, setting out, and then making contacts there. I think it could make for some good times. And with the advent of PF2 coming it'd be a good time as any to do so.
That is one nice thing about a second edition of pathfinder books like the inner sea camaign guide still stay pretty usable regardless of the version you are playing for all the setting/world information. So a lot of that stuff can take a lower priority of initial product releases.
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and because YOU don't like it, no one else is allowed to enjoy it?
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Just to comment on "At least to the extent the Dragon Empires did?"
Well that's not what I'm looking for, because that is damn sparse, really.
We got Jade Regent/Dragon Empires and that's it, besides the one city in Distant Shores.
(and personally, I find the concept there a bit lacking: "oh, here's a sprinkling of everything else!")
Tian Xia is 100% ripe for more detailed country and ethnicity information.
Not to say that Casmaron / Vudra (sorta seem like same continent to my squinty eyes)
or Southern Garund also do not 100% deserve decent treatment, really those perhaps *are*
ahead of Tian Xia in priority because they more closely interface with Inner Sea countries.
(Qadira/Taldor for Casmaron, Mwangi Expanse and Nex/Geb for South Garund)
In other words aspects of Inner Sea will be lacking as long as their closely related neighbors aren't detailed.
While Tian Xia (and Arcadia) are mostly "off page" just to a lesser
degree than Sarusan.
And not to say it isn't disappointing ALL Inner Sea nations haven't quite gotten respectable level of detail yet (10 years?).
I was really interested in Molthune, but felt it was sidelined in favor of Nirmathas and the skirmish system,
basically serving as auxiliary rules for the AP rather than focusing on the purported theme in line with product line.
(IMHO the decision should have been made to make that free PDF expansion material for AP rather than intrude on CS line)
The amount of crunch material Paizo has been doing has felt well beyond what is necessary or prudent,
and I wish they had been able to switch gears to putting out more of this setting material,
even if the splat/crunch expansion does sneak in updates to Core systems which are long deserved.
(e.g. Knowledge check to know of Class Abilities, although IMHO that belongs as Core FAQ/Errata, not in a splat,
because it's just part of playing core game, not some new take on alternate approach like Armor as DR, for example)
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I would really love to see Dragon Empires World Guide book.
Also, rather than "Inner Sea Region being updated to 4719 with APs taken in account" book, I'd rather have separate "Avistan World Guide" and "Garund World Guide". That way they could update info for Inner Sea Regions without it just being same book all over again as Inner Sea World Guide.
Even more than other parts of the planet, I'd love to see a planet-hopping AP. I'm actually kind of surprised they haven't done one yet. The countdown clocks pointing to this year for a potential Dominion of The Black invasion could lead to a cool AP. Each book could be on a different planet in the solar system, first book with the party going through a gate to the moon then second book playing with dinosaur-riding amazons on Castroval, then go mess with four-armed green dudes on Akiton with the final book being shutting down an outpost on Aucturn.
Just to comment on "At least to the extent the Dragon Empires did?"
Well that's not what I'm looking for, because that is damn sparse, really.
We got Jade Regent/Dragon Empires and that's it, besides the one city in Distant Shores.
(and personally, I find the concept there a bit lacking: "oh, here's a sprinkling of everything else!")
Tian Xia is 100% ripe for more detailed country and ethnicity information.
Erik Mona commented that they’d recently had a high level meeting about the “little bit of everything” approach they took with Dragon Empires amongst other things. It was only a snippet, but it did sound like they were planning another effort in this regard and that it would be a bit more focussed this time around, so hopefully it’ll suit you whenever (and if) it comes out.
No information as to when that might be, of course. Could well have been part of a long term strategy, could be something for 2019.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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It's more of a philosophy thing.
A lot of us are completists by nature, and being editors we're also super-focused on organization and categorization.
I think this leads us to frequently cover really big topics from all kinds of different angles, but to not go particularly deep with any of them.
Lots of things to think about when it comes to treatments of Golarion in second edition, but for me, within the context of a single book, the main questions are "how wide is the focus" and "how deeply do we explore the topic."
Right now, as in the case of the Dragon Empires book, the answer is usually REALLY WIDE, ALL-INCLUSIVE, REALLY and NOT PARTICULARLY DEEP.
I am starting to think that might not be the best option in second edition.
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So umm, sorry, I'm groggy so my reading comprehension isn't best right now, but does that mean that big 300 pages World Guide book that is focused single continent such as Avistan, Garund or Tian Xia is less likely to happen in 2e?
I guess if 2e focuses on country specific books that we won't get retread of Inner Sea World Guide at least. I think that would be technically fourth such book(3.5 campaign setting book, 1e primer book being other two out of three)
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Hmm, I'm happy we don't have to buy Inner Sea book again at least, still I would have loved to have similar treatment for individual continents. Like, Dragom Empires Gazetteer is one page per country, 4 give-or-take pages(with map and gazetteer of the country) in comparison is a lot more material to work around and get inspired by.
I suppose all is good for everyone as long we get completed map of Garund somehow and those individual country books for even obscure countries :D
I haven't decided much of anything yet, just musing aloud to myself before I go to bed after finishing my first edit on the Playtest Rulebook's magic item chapter.
You know, as one does after hours at a con. ;)
Okay, I'm finding that hard to believe.
No offense. =>
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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None taken. Would you believe it more if I told you I actually finished my edits on the flight over here (which btw I posted about on my twitter yesterday), and that what I did tonight was simply enter those edits into a Word file?
Cause that's what happened. Took about three hours all told.
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Or is the part you don't believe that I haven't decided much of anything yet? ;)
I don't believe the going to bed part.
I don't believe the going to bed part.Or is the part you don't believe that I haven't decided much of anything yet? ;)
I concur with Herr Doktor. It's a convention, even with the work being done, it's hard to just 'shut down' with a hundred things going on, and just when you're about to...
Inspiration strikes and you're up for another two hours.
Yeah, to be totally honest I'm not really interested in publishing a book with four pages on each of the Inner Sea nations. I kinda feel like people have already bought that.
Twice.
Maybe (yes, I think I may be one of those who bought both of them), but what I WOULD like would be something that updates us all on the official changes in the world since the original Inner Sea Guide (or, if you include that in the core rule book that would be AWESOME).
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(or, if you include that in the core rule book that would be AWESOME).
Oh please don't. I'm actually interested in updated setting information and would consider buying a book about it. So just don't bury that information in a rule book for a game I don't really intend to play and therefore wouldn't buy
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It's more of a philosophy thing.
A lot of us are completists by nature, and being editors we're also super-focused on organization and categorization.
I think this leads us to frequently cover really big topics from all kinds of different angles, but to not go particularly deep with any of them.
Lots of things to think about when it comes to treatments of Golarion in second edition, but for me, within the context of a single book, the main questions are "how wide is the focus" and "how deeply do we explore the topic."
Right now, as in the case of the Dragon Empires book, the answer is usually REALLY WIDE, ALL-INCLUSIVE, REALLY and NOT PARTICULARLY DEEP.
I am starting to think that might not be the best option in second edition.
To follow up on this, I know in some panels, discussions, and board posts, you've indicated many times that certain Paizo staff members "own" certain countries. And if they aren't specifically on the development team, those books may not get much play in the schedule.
I don't like this policy. Honestly I think its a bit selfish for some staff members to hang onto certain countries in PF2, if after 10 years nothing has been published about them.
About the Inner Sea region... Personally I would much prefer a complete book for it to come out again eventually. It's an opportunity to present things more efficiently while conveniently including the historical updates.
Personal preferences: I'd like the new maps to include the major roads (no harm to those who don't need them, useful to others like me), and the use of hexes on the maps (especially useful for users of the PDF).
Just my 2 cp.
It's more of a philosophy thing.
A lot of us are completists by nature, and being editors we're also super-focused on organization and categorization.
I think this leads us to frequently cover really big topics from all kinds of different angles, but to not go particularly deep with any of them.
Lots of things to think about when it comes to treatments of Golarion in second edition, but for me, within the context of a single book, the main questions are "how wide is the focus" and "how deeply do we explore the topic."
Right now, as in the case of the Dragon Empires book, the answer is usually REALLY WIDE, ALL-INCLUSIVE, REALLY and NOT PARTICULARLY DEEP.
I am starting to think that might not be the best option in second edition.
I think it might be nice to have a setting book that focuses on the areas of the setting that are (1) most socially and geopolitically entangled with one another and (2) the least theme-parky - that is, southern Avistan plus some areas of northern Garund, possibly plus some areas of Arcadia that are linked into a colonial economy with the former, with some special focus on a few cities like Kintargo and Absalom. This gives you a sort of late medieval Mediterranean/early modern Atlantic world, with an ideologically tinged cold war between different inheritors of the great human empires of the past (and legacy of Aroden more broadly), a major superpower teetering on the edge of collapse and willing to bring down everyone else with it if it comes to it, and so on. All of this is what feels most distinctive and value-added about Golarion, as oppoosed to the parts that seem more like they were added so that you could have Product Identity content that was gothic horror or pulp sci-fantasy or whatever without splitting the market with different settings in the way AD&D did.
Calling these other areas "theme park worlds" and explaining their existence in this way feels mean, which isn't my intention - it makes a lot of sense why you did it this way, and some of the supplements on the more "theme parky" areas of the setting, like Distant Worlds and Rule of Fear, are among my favorites (though remembering that they're set in the same universe is kind of like reading early Sandman issues and being reminded that Sandman exists in the same world as the Justice League.) But I do think Southern Avistan and some of the regions connected with it are, by far, the best places to go in depth to lay out in one book a setting that's feels cohesive, interconnected, and distinct.
(The only major disadvantage of this that I can think of is that to get full value out of it you'd probably have to pick and run with fairly specific outcomes to Hell's Rebels, Hell's Vengeance, and War for the Crown that may not match with what particular tables did.)
Maybe (yes, I think I may be one of those who bought both of them), but what I WOULD like would be something that updates us all on the official changes in the world since the original Inner Sea Guide (or, if you include that in the core rule book that would be AWESOME).
Insofar as the CRB is prime real estate, I'd rather not universal content get pushed out by Golarion-specific stuff.
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Well...one positive note in this regard...given that core rulebooks are no longer setting agnostic, it's I think far more likely we will get more information incorporated into player stat books than we would have before.
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How the f... is that positive?
I think it might be nice to have a setting book that focuses on the areas of the setting that are (1) most socially and geopolitically entangled with one another and (2) the least theme-parky - that is, southern Avistan plus some areas of northern Garund, possibly plus some areas of Arcadia that are linked into a colonial economy with the former, with some special focus on a few cities like Kintargo and Absalom.
There was already a softcover book in that vein, I think it was called Distant Shores or something similar, so maybe that's what you are looking for.
Vudra is the center or Psychic magic, that much is kinda obvious. What's keeping them from Arcadia? it sounds like a cool place.
I hope Paizo doesn't touch Arcadia for a while still, because at the moment it is perfect for me to dump all my homebrew stuff there without needing to worry about the bigger picture or the implications for the rest of Golarion.
But besides that, Arcadia is a blank slate continent, with the exception of a few colonies being present at the moment, which would mean Paizo would need to start pretty much from scratch and if I understood Mr. Mona's comments correctly, that's not something they are that interested in right now, unless they'd focus on a really specific part of it.
Arcadia, in its current form, is like a mystery box. We don't know what's there and that's what is appealing about it, at least that's the feeling I get when it's brought up.