Enchanting item with an Immediate Action spell?


Rules Questions


Is there a rule against enchanting items with Immediate Action spells?
If not, is the following method correct?

I want to enchant a cape (shoulder slot Wondrous Item) with Windy Escape. As I understand it, the cost for this item is:
1 (Spell Level)
x1 (Caster Level)
x2000 (Use-Activated: Use = getting hit by an attack)
=2,000gp to effectively always have DR10/Magic

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The problem is that those are guidelines, and it's the GM who sets the final price. You are told in that table to compare the item to similar items for price, and you won't find anything near that cheap with the power you want.


You mean putting an immediate action spell ON the item? Teeeeeechnically, it's allowed, but it wouldn't be "always active", it'd be activated (once per round), use your Swift action for the next round, and technically only applies to one attack, not the whole chain.

ALSO remember that your GM reserves the right to reprice things he feels are too powerful. After all, if I could get +4 AC for 1k, I'd never buy a Bracers of Armor again.


Zarius wrote:

You mean putting an immediate action spell ON the item? Teeeeeechnically, it's allowed, but it wouldn't be "always active", it'd be activated (once per round), use your Swift action for the next round, and technically only applies to one attack, not the whole chain.

ALSO remember that your GM reserves the right to reprice things he feels are too powerful. After all, if I could get +4 AC for 1k, I'd never buy a Bracers of Armor again.

Thanks for the feedback and I agree with your reasoning. That said, do you think 2,000gp is an appropriate price for 1/round DR10/Magic?

It is distinct from AC bonuses after all, since AC bonuses have their own cost rules that supersede the others, but there isn't such a ruling on DR. Additionally, Anything with a +1 Enhancement bonus would bypass it, so I wouldn't call this ability exceptionally powered for the cost.


First, you have continuous and Use-Activated confused. Activating a magic item require a standard action unless otherwise noted. (And there is nothing in item creation to make an item activate as a reaction instead.) This makes a Cape of Windy Escape only able to protect you during the standard action you spend activating the cape. (So that's not going to do much)

Second, there is a rule in a way. Continous use/ Command word activation was specifically called out in the rule book as easy to abuse and GM's are encouraged to close any loopholes. It's specifically pointed out that by the rules a True Strike mace should cost only 2000gp to add the mace but it's an underpriced cost. Instead, it should instead cost 200,000gp for the mace.

Cape of Windy Escape that grants a constant DR 10/Magic is definitely too strong for the cost.

Third, notice there is another multiplier on Continuous:

Quote:
If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

Note that instantaneous effects were never even considered for Continuous since there is also an additional multiplier dependant on the duration of the spell.


Joshua029 wrote:

Thanks for the feedback and I agree with your reasoning. That said, do you think 2,000gp is an appropriate price for 1/round DR10/Magic?

It is distinct from AC bonuses after all, since AC bonuses have their own cost rules that supersede the others, but there isn't such a ruling on DR. Additionally, Anything with a +1 Enhancement bonus would bypass it, so I wouldn't call this ability exceptionally powered for the cost.

That's still cheap. 2000gp is affordable by most by level 3. Magic weapons become expected for PCs at level 5. Usually, enemies are a level or two behind so DR/Magic retains a lot of power up to level 6. And even above there are a lot of enemies that lack a means of piecing it. And at once per round, that's way too cheap. If restricted to once a day, then that's closer to the right price since that price is more in line with most items that give once a day replications of a first level spell.


For an infinite USE once-per-round? Hell no. That's a near-permanent DR 10 at lower levels, and would still mitigate many first- or second- attacks, if you use it tactically, PLUS immunity to poison, crits, and sneak besides. Factoring in that it's only for ONE attack per round, I'd put it at at least 10k in one of my games. Latrans makes a good point I forgot with the first of his quotes, about the time-based multiplier. I might let it slide at 8k. After all, a +1 eliminates the DR. Hell, a level 5 Sorc with bloodline claws eliminates the DR.


I'm not strictly rejecting increasing the cost of this enchantment. However, I don't believe most of the critiques presented accurately depict the enchantment I was suggesting in relation to the rules.

Latrans wrote:
First, you have continuous and Use-Activated confused.

No, I didn't confuse them. Windy Escape makes you "vaporous and insubstantial," so if it were a constant effect, the wearer wouldn't be able to attack or do hardly anything else. In contrast, it being a use-activated means it doesn't get in the wearer's way, because you're only "vaporous and insubstantial" when it activates on a hit against you.

Quote:
Activating a magic item require a standard action unless otherwise noted.

It is "otherwise noted" in the effect description, so it's not a violation of the rules. I would consider arguments for Immediate Actions being priced differently than Standard Actions, but that argument hasn't been presented yet.

Quote:
It's specifically pointed out that by the rules a True Strike mace should cost only 2000gp to add the mace but it's an underpriced cost. Instead, it should instead cost 200,000gp for the mace.

What page is that stated on? As I understand the crafting rules, because many spells would break the game if enchanted onto weapons, we were instead given a separate method of enchanting weapons with limited options, which don't include the game-breaking ones (such as True Strike).

The same goes for enchantments that boost Armor Class. Bonuses to Armor Class have their own method of being calculated, which is more costly than normal enchantment for Wandrous Items for the sake of ballance. To me, this limits the value of such arguments related to enchantment power, being as there are hard rules accounting for those specific instances.

Quote:
Third, notice there is another multiplier on Continuous:

I know about the multiplier, which as stated in regards to the first point, doesn't apply to what I was suggesting, because making it continuous use would drastically limit its usefulness.

Latrans wrote:
That's still cheap. 2000gp is affordable by most by level 3. Magic weapons become expected for PCs at level 5. Usually, enemies are a level or two behind so DR/Magic retains a lot of power up to level 6. And even above there are a lot of enemies that lack a means of piecing it. And at once per round, that's way too cheap. If restricted to once a day, then that's closer to the right price since that price is more in line with most items that give once a day replications of a first level spell.

Would you care to give a couple examples of the types of enchanted items which by comparison makes this severely overpowered?

New suggestion:
Shoulder-Slot Wandrous Item (Cape): 3/day, when the user would take damage from a physical impact, the character may as an immediate action become "vaporous and insubstantial" for a moment, gaining DR10/Magic against that damage. If the character is targeted by multiple attacks within a round, each attack is counted separately.
Price?


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

The only immediate action based magic item that I can think of off the top of my head is the one use Snapleaf . Does reverse-engineering its cost tell us anything ?


Let me see...

750 for the item.
CL5, L1 spell. CL 5, L2 spell.
So, that's... 5+10, 15.
core item multiplier is 50.

This prices as a potion. The key difference, however, is that the Snap leaf is a single use item. He's looking at an infinite use item. Even at 8 grand, that's less than a dozen of those snap leaves.


Joshua029 wrote:

What page is that stated on? As I understand the crafting rules, because many spells would break the game if enchanted onto weapons, we were instead given a separate method of enchanting weapons with limited options, which don't include the game-breaking ones (such as True Strike).

The same goes for enchantments that boost Armor Class. Bonuses to Armor Class have their own method of being calculated, which is more costly than normal enchantment for Wandrous Items for the sake of ballance. To me, this limits the value of such arguments related to enchantment power, being as there are hard rules accounting for those specific instances.

Ultimate Campaign Pg170, Example one in the "Pricing New Items" section.

A lot of spells are game breaking to have at will casting no matter if it were on a weapon, armor, or any magic item slot. Unlimited use of many first level spells breaks the game. A Cap of Cure Light Wounds would eliminate the need for out of combat healing or even more ridiculous Paladin made Gloves of Lesser Restoration that make almost everything that can happen in a fight but drain and death negligible including the need for sleep for all but spellcasters that require 8 hours to prepare.

Joshua029 wrote:
Would you care to give a couple examples of the types of enchanted items which by comparison makes this severely overpowered?

DR granting items aren't common because how easy to abuse them but here one to compare.

Necklace of Beast's Might (Bones) grants DR 2/- but only against ONE of the following's natural attacks: aberrations, animals, dragons, fey, magical beasts, oozes, or vermin. It also detects if one of the selected creature types is within 100ft. All for the "cheap" price of 12,000gp.

Joshua029 wrote:

New suggestion:

Shoulder-Slot Wandrous Item (Cape): 3/day, when the user would take damage from a physical impact, the character may as an immediate action become "vaporous and insubstantial" for a moment, gaining DR10/Magic against that damage. If the character is targeted by multiple attacks within a round, each attack is counted separately.
Price?

This one has much better balance. I think 2050gp is a reasonable price when you include the cost multiplier for immediate action I calculated below. I would probably even accept a little cheaper (about 1800gp) since your description removes some of the extra immunities the spell gives.

SlimGauge wrote:
The only immediate action based magic item that I can think of off the top of my head is the one use Snapleaf . Does reverse-engineering its cost tell us anything?

(CL 5 X 1st level X 25gp)*1.5 + (CL 5 X 2nd level X 25gp)= 437.5gp Expected cost

750/437.5= 1.71

So looks like it X1.71 for immediate action items. Although some of this may not be due to the immediate factor. I did the math on a few other items and either I'm missing another factor for them or Paizo likes to round up for prettier numbers.


Latrans, that's the Scroll formula. You need to use the Potion formula, since it's an anyone-can-use item. Also, Paizo never actually uses the 150%hike on the second item. Adjust accordingly.


Latrans wrote:
Ultimate Campaign Pg170, Example one in the "Pricing New Items" section.

OK, I was going by the Core Rules. I'll check that out when I get the chance.

Quote:
Joshua029 wrote:

New suggestion:

Shoulder-Slot Wandrous Item (Cape): 3/day, when the user would take damage from a physical impact, the character may as an immediate action become "vaporous and insubstantial" for a moment, gaining DR10/Magic
This one has much better balance. I think 2050gp is a reasonable price when you include the cost multiplier for immediate action I calculated below. I would probably even accept a little cheaper (about 1800gp) since your description removes some of the extra immunities the spell gives.

I think we might have made it to the same (metaphorical) page.

If this were 5/day instead of 3/day, would you then price this at:
3,420gp for the Windy Escape
or
3,000gp for just the DR10/Magic?


As mentioned above the GM is going to adjust the price upwards as this is a powerful effect. Denying that aspect/rule is simply impractical.
Windy Escape is a racial spell, so that might impact the activation(using the racial limitation as a base).
A Standard Action is the base for activating items, even unlimited use items. Always on for an immediate activation involves an unspecified price multiplier as the magic item table is rather old and targets DND 3.0. So more GM decisions. I'd expect the multiplier to be higher given the numbers based on spell duration.
The spell only gives benefits versus a single attack in a round, not every attack. 'Always On' will not change that.

This is a non-standard item based on the spell parameters, magic table definitions, and effectiveness.


Azothath wrote:

As mentioned above the GM is going to adjust the price upwards as this is a powerful effect. Denying that aspect/rule is simply impractical.

Windy Escape is a racial spell, so that might impact the activation(using the racial limitation as a base).
A Standard Action is the base for activating items, even unlimited use items. Always on for an immediate activation involves an unspecified price multiplier as the magic item table is rather old and targets DND 3.0. So more GM decisions. I'd expect the multiplier to be higher given the numbers based on spell duration.
The spell only gives benefits versus a single attack in a round, not every attack. 'Always On' will not change that.

This is a non-standard item based on the spell parameters, magic table definitions, and effectiveness.

Please read the thread, rather than just the initial post so your comment will be relevant to where the discussion currently is.


Well... My problem with making it 3/day for 2050 is... The Snapleaf, which is a bit less powerful than this in my book, is 750 per use. It's a one-time use item.

DR 10/<thing> is pretty potent. As latrans pointed out, there's an item that gives you DR 2 that costs 12k, the Necklace of Beast's Might (Bones).

So, DR 10, even with Magic being the cut off, even only 3 times a day, seems a little... skimpy.


Zarius wrote:

Well... My problem with making it 3/day for 2050 is... The Snapleaf, which is a bit less powerful than this in my book, is 750 per use. It's a one-time use item.

DR 10/<thing> is pretty potent. As latrans pointed out, there's an item that gives you DR 2 that costs 12k, the Necklace of Beast's Might (Bones).

So, DR 10, even with Magic being the cut off, even only 3 times a day, seems a little... skimpy.

Half of the cost of the Necklace of Beast's Might is the CONSTANT effect of knowing when a type of creature is within range, and where within range that is. Its DR is also CONSTANT, all the time.

In stark contrast, my proposition has DR that only applies against three attacks per day, and only ones that have no magical enhancement, or any "counts as magic" special rule can be reduced in this way.

I believe the rules for item crafting are far more balanced than you seem to give them credit for.


Joshua029 wrote:
Zarius wrote:

Well... My problem with making it 3/day for 2050 is... The Snapleaf, which is a bit less powerful than this in my book, is 750 per use. It's a one-time use item.

DR 10/<thing> is pretty potent. As latrans pointed out, there's an item that gives you DR 2 that costs 12k, the Necklace of Beast's Might (Bones).

So, DR 10, even with Magic being the cut off, even only 3 times a day, seems a little... skimpy.

Part of the cost of the Necklace of Beast's Might is the constant effect of knowing when a type of creature is within range, and where within range that is. It also has DR/- against all attacks from an entire type of creature.

In stark contrast, my proposition has DR that only applies against three attacks per day (that could be one round of combat from a Mid-level Fighter), and only against attacks that have no magical enhancement, or that possess any "counts as magic" special rule.

I believe the rules for item crafting are far more balanced than you seem to give them credit for.


Joshua029 wrote:
Azothath wrote:

As mentioned above ...

This is a non-standard item based on the spell parameters, magic table definitions, and effectiveness.
Please read the thread, rather than just the initial post so your comment will be relevant to where the discussion currently is.

I did, I just chose to not comment on specific suppositions made about costing as those will vary from GM to GM. This is a rules forum and sticking to RAW is a hallmark of this forum.

Some posters made impractical comments.
Please refer to my profile for advice.


Joshua029 wrote:
Would you care to give a couple examples of the types of enchanted items which by comparison makes this severely overpowered?

Here is one. Must be worn 24 hours, blocks up to 100 hp a day max. 60,000 gp. Yours blocks 10 a round for however long with no limit for 1/30th of the price.

Belt of stoneskin


toastedamphibian wrote:
Joshua029 wrote:
Would you care to give a couple examples of the types of enchanted items which by comparison makes this severely overpowered?

Here is one. Must be worn 24 hours, blocks up to 100 hp a day max. 60,000 gp. Yours blocks 10 a round for however long with no limit for 1/30th of the price.

Belt of stoneskin

I already stepped back from not having a daily limit, as is seen in the above thread. However, the Belt of Stoneskin is a pretty good starting point for a comparison with what I'm suggesting, because it doesn't grant any additional abilities that would factor into the price calculation.

The Belt of Stoneskin is 60,000gp for roughly 10/day, DR10/Adamantine.
So using the Core Rulebook's pricing method,
making that 5/day would cost 30,000gp.
Or 3/day would cost 18,000gp.
But remember, this is DR/Adamantine, which can be exceedingly difficult to bypass, and even if the GM does give an enemy a weapon that can bypass it, after you defeat it, now your party has that awesome weapon. In contrast, what I was suggesting was only DR/Magic, which can be bypassed by any spell or +1 enchanted item.

I would argue that DR/Adamantine is at least 10x the value of DR/Magic, which incidentally, would put the price right where Latrans priced it.


I would argue that dr / anything effective is essentially identical to any other dr that is not bypassed. If you get 3 attacks per day it is effective against, the other attacks are irrelevant, and what causes them to bypass equally so.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Joshua029 wrote:
toastedamphibian wrote:
Joshua029 wrote:
Would you care to give a couple examples of the types of enchanted items which by comparison makes this severely overpowered?

Here is one. Must be worn 24 hours, blocks up to 100 hp a day max. 60,000 gp. Yours blocks 10 a round for however long with no limit for 1/30th of the price.

Belt of stoneskin

I already stepped back from not having a daily limit, as is seen in the above thread. However, the Belt of Stoneskin is a pretty good starting point for a comparison with what I'm suggesting, because it doesn't grant any additional abilities that would factor into the price calculation.

The Belt of Stoneskin is 60,000gp for roughly 10/day, DR10/Adamantine.
So using the Core Rulebook's pricing method,
making that 5/day would cost 30,000gp.
Or 3/day would cost 18,000gp.
But remember, this is DR/Adamantine, which can be exceedingly difficult to bypass, and even if the GM does give an enemy a weapon that can bypass it, after you defeat it, now your party has that awesome weapon. In contrast, what I was suggesting was only DR/Magic, which can be bypassed by any spell or +1 enchanted item.

I would argue that DR/Adamantine is at least 10x the value of DR/Magic, which incidentally, would put the price right where Latrans priced it.

It is not "60,000gp for roughly 10/day", it is "60,000 for 1 use/day of DR 10/Adamantine, with a limit of 100 hp of damage", i.e. one stoneskin.

So all your "making 5/day ... Or 3/day ..." is going in the wrong direction.

That item, with 5 used/day, would cost 300,000 gp.

Downgrading the DR to magic? Relevant when you think of using it against PC, way less relevant when using it against monsters. As the priced are meant to be evaluated first on the benefit for the player, DR magic is worth almost as much as DR adamantine.
So reduce the cost to 1/2 or 1/3 at most.
30 point of prevention total vs 100, 3/10.
60,000/3x1/3= 6,666. Round up and you get a price of 6,700.
And you need to use a relevant slot, so probably it will be an amulet or a belt, like the item you use as a reference.


Diego Rossi wrote:

It is not "60,000gp for roughly 10/day", it is "60,000 for 1 use/day of DR 10/Adamantine, with a limit of 100 hp of damage", i.e. one stoneskin.

So all your "making 5/day ... Or 3/day ..." is going in the wrong direction.

That item, with 5 used/day, would cost 300,000 gp.

Downgrading the DR to magic? Relevant when you think of using it against PC, way less relevant when using it against monsters. As the priced are meant to be evaluated first on the benefit for the player, DR magic is worth almost as much as DR adamantine.
So reduce the cost to 1/2 or 1/3 at most.
30 point...

That's demonstrably false.

"Every 24 hours, this belt’s wearer gains DR 10/adamantine until the belt absorbs 100 points of damage, at which point the belt becomes useless for the remainder of the 24-hour period."
This means each day you get DR10 against all attacks until the total amount of damage blocked = 100pts. After that limit is reached, it doesn't block damage for the remainder of the 24hr period.
100pts of Damage Resistance/10pts against each hit yields an estimate of 10 uses per day.

And no, DR/Magic isn't nearly as reliable as DR/Adamantine. DR/Adamantine can help you survive spells, whereas DR/Magic cannot. The prevalence of casters in Pathfinder make this difference huge.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

How do you get that DR/Adamantine helps against spells? Unless it specifies dealing Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage, DR/Adamantine doesn't even affect it.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
PRD wrote:
Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.

Val'bryn2 reply is correct. The type of DR don't matter, it don't affect spells unless they do Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage.

Actually an item that use an immediate action has some advantage on one that one that reset every day. You can choose to use it when it is more useful instead of "wasting" it against every attack directed at you.
Classes that often use immediate actions will find it less useful, but again, when pricing something for the game you should base the price on the more favorable user, not on the less favorable.

Uses per day is a game term that has a specific meaning when referred to magic items.
You are using a definition that is different, so it has no meaning when used for pricing magic items.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Joshua029 wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

It is not "60,000gp for roughly 10/day", it is "60,000 for 1 use/day of DR 10/Adamantine, with a limit of 100 hp of damage", i.e. one stoneskin.

So all your "making 5/day ... Or 3/day ..." is going in the wrong direction.

That item, with 5 used/day, would cost 300,000 gp.

Downgrading the DR to magic? Relevant when you think of using it against PC, way less relevant when using it against monsters. As the priced are meant to be evaluated first on the benefit for the player, DR magic is worth almost as much as DR adamantine.
So reduce the cost to 1/2 or 1/3 at most.
30 point...

That's demonstrably false.

"Every 24 hours, this belt’s wearer gains DR 10/adamantine until the belt absorbs 100 points of damage, at which point the belt becomes useless for the remainder of the 24-hour period."
This means each day you get DR10 against all attacks until the total amount of damage blocked = 100pts. After that limit is reached, it doesn't block damage for the remainder of the 24hr period.
100pts of Damage Resistance/10pts against each hit yields an estimate of 10 uses per day.

No. Nope. Nuh-uh.

That is a 1/day casting of stoneskin at CL 10. It is very definitely not 10/day stoneskin at CL 1 (though if you want to go there, that makes 30,000 for 5/day for a 4th level spell, so I make that 7,500 gp x CL x Spell level, which puts it 5,000 gp due to the 10 min per level price increase).

Also, Use-activated means “using the item for its intended purpose”, so a “use activated cloak” gets activated when it’s worn (which makes it a continuous item, not use activated). The activation you’re looking for is actually command word with an “as an immediate action” clause on the item. Or you need to wrap a contingency spell around it, too, and that will bump the price up a lot.

Overall, I’d start at about 2,000 per use, and even that might be on the cheap side.


People are really undervaluing the distinction of DR/magic (which is amazing at low levels and nearly useless at higher levels) and DR/- or DR/adamantine. Simply put, DR/- is exponentially more valuable than DR/magic.


Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
People are really undervaluing the distinction of DR/magic (which is amazing at low levels and nearly useless at higher levels) and DR/- or DR/adamantine. Simply put, DR/- is exponentially more valuable than DR/magic.

If I'm understanding this correctly, actual spells ignore all DR, but DR/Magic means that weapons with magic enhancement also ignore the DR.

This means DR/- is only bypassed by spells, but that's all spells, regardless of level?

Could you or someone point me to the page number where all of this is laid out in the Core Rulebook, because I seem to have missed it.


Chemlak wrote:

No. Nope. Nuh-uh.

That is a 1/day casting of stoneskin at CL 10. It is very definitely not 10/day stoneskin at CL 1 (though if you want to go there, that makes 30,000 for 5/day for a 4th level spell, so I make that 7,500 gp x CL x Spell level, which puts it 5,000 gp due to the 10 min per level price increase).

Also, Use-activated means “using the item for its intended purpose”, so a “use activated cloak” gets activated when it’s worn (which makes it a continuous item, not use activated). The activation you’re looking for is actually command word with an “as an immediate action” clause on the item. Or you need to wrap a contingency spell around it, too, and that will bump the price up a lot.

Overall, I’d start at about 2,000 per use, and even that might be on the cheap side.

You and I are not on the same page. How about you show me the calculation you think Paizo used to price the Belt of Stoneskin at 60,000gp, then we can look at adjustments from there for variations.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Step one of the magic item pricing rules.


Chemlak wrote:
Step one of the magic item pricing rules.

That's ferociously unhelpful. "Step one" where? And how does that answer my question?


Joshua029 wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
People are really undervaluing the distinction of DR/magic (which is amazing at low levels and nearly useless at higher levels) and DR/- or DR/adamantine. Simply put, DR/- is exponentially more valuable than DR/magic.

If I'm understanding this correctly, actual spells ignore all DR, but DR/Magic means that weapons with magic enhancement also ignore the DR.

This means DR/- is only bypassed by spells, but that's all spells, regardless of level?

Could you or someone point me to the page number where all of this is laid out in the Core Rulebook, because I seem to have missed it.

Not some spells. Certain spells create physical attacks with special materials, for instance pellet blast:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/pellet-blast/

These are subject to damage resistance. But this is the exception to the rule, largely spells and dr don't interact (summoning being another major exception).

Here is the pfsrd section on DR, ask any clarifications you'd like, happy to help out: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/#TOC-Damage-Reduct ion

But as for the pricing of magic items, in cases like this, it's more an art than a science. First, look at pricing for comparable items, then use the rule set that breaks magic items down by elements.

Personally, this feels like a 5k item to me. It's very good at low levels and middling as you go along. But you're not going to find a correct answer, just jury-rigged guesses.


Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Joshua029 wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
People are really undervaluing the distinction of DR/magic (which is amazing at low levels and nearly useless at higher levels) and DR/- or DR/adamantine. Simply put, DR/- is exponentially more valuable than DR/magic.

If I'm understanding this correctly, actual spells ignore all DR, but DR/Magic means that weapons with magic enhancement also ignore the DR.

This means DR/- is only bypassed by spells, but that's all spells, regardless of level?

Could you or someone point me to the page number where all of this is laid out in the Core Rulebook, because I seem to have missed it.

Not some spells. Certain spells create physical attacks with special materials, for instance pellet blast:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/pellet-blast/

These are subject to damage resistance. But this is the exception to the rule, largely spells and dr don't interact (summoning being another major exception).

Here is the pfsrd section on DR, ask any clarifications you'd like, happy to help out: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities/#TOC-Damage-Reduct ion

But as for the pricing of magic items, in cases like this, it's more an art than a science. First, look at pricing for comparable items, then use the rule set that breaks magic items down by elements.

Personally, this feels like a 5k item to me. It's very good at low levels and middling as you go along. But you're not going to find a correct answer, just jury-rigged guesses.

Thank you! That's very helpful.

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