Paizo - Please give us your weigh in on the raging Paladin debates.


Prerelease Discussion


Now - To preface this... I want Paladins to stay Lawful Good. I feel it adds flavor to the class. I do not want non-LG Paladins, I do not want 5e Paladins.

That having been said... Paladin debates are going to keep going on unless someone from Paizo chimes in.

So... Please... Someone who can... Come in and say:

1. Paladins are remaining Lawful Good.

or

2. Paladins are not remaining Lawful Good.

End it, or it is going to keep going on and on. Yes, I probably will leave if they are opened up... I don't care at this point though, I'd rather know now before I get invested in PF 2e, and if we don't then the Paladin threads are going to consume this board.


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I'd so no matter what they do, a Paladin should not get a rage ability.


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Paladins Should be LG. Maybe with god specific archetypes with LN or NG but those should be exception not rules.


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Is there REALLY a need to make a SECOND thread for this???


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Orthos wrote:
Is there REALLY a need to make a SECOND thread for this???

Second? Isn't this like the fifth thread?


I was away from the forum for a couple days, I didn't notice the glut of new threads beyond the bug argumentative one until just now.


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Amazing, I’m agreeing with HWalsh...

Yes, Paizo, please give us some kind of indication of whether classes (especially the Paladin but also others like the Monk and the Druid) are going to go the Starfinder route and not have alignment requirements, or if they will and if those requirements will remain the same as P1E.

Because I’d like to know ahead of time whether I finally get to breathe a sigh of relief after a decade of being ostracized for not coming to the game with the same background, mindset, and goals, thankful that I can finally see what the welcoming side of this community looks like for once, or if I need to gear up for another decade of fighting for my ability to legitimately expect to just approach a Pathfinder table (just like everyone else), introduce myself and sit down (just like everyone else), fashion up a character that I’m interested in playing (just like everyone else), not condemn the other players for their choices and interests AND not be condemned in kind.


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I personally want to scrap alignments but that's me. If they do keep alignments, why not have the four-corners paladins (LG LE CG CE)? Choice isn't bad, is it?


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Jason already told us there is a blog post incoming. So lets wait


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DM Alistair wrote:
I personally want to scrap alignments but that's me. If they do keep alignments, why not have the four-corners paladins (LG LE CG CE)? Choice isn't bad, is it?

For hwalsh and a few others, choice is not only bad, it is anathema to the very heart of what they believe the Paladin is.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Hey, if non LG paladins is the price I have to pay to cleanse paladins of the stink of players demanding they remain forever shackled to the thoroughly discredited knight in shining armour, totally the incorruptible pure, walking alignment argument...then bring on the paladin of Cayden Cailean, Im ready to be convinced over a beer.

Like I genuinely love LG paladins and hope everyone comes over to 2e but if we're.gonna lose people, Im cool with it being the people who want to limit everyone elses game because they dont like others having the ability to play things they dont like.


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Why are the threads going to consume the board? People cannot be patient and just wait a bit? For that matter, is trying to put one's finger on the scale with dire predictions of leaving forever and ever really helpful?

Just take a few deep breaths and relax a bit. We barely have any information about ANYTHING in the game, let alone what one of the many, many classes is going to be doing.


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HWalsh wrote:
Yes, I probably will leave if they are opened up...

This is almost certainly a counterproductive thing to admit if you want them to remain unchanged.


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I wonder what Paizo would do if I threatened to leave Pathfinder if they did not open up the Paladin to different alignments?

I mean, it's a no-win scenario. No matter what they did, they would lose a player. What would Paizo do people? What would Paizo do?

The Exchange

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Diminuendo wrote:
What would Paizo do people?

Ignore you both and instead rather listen to more reasonable voices?


Lol probably.


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An official statement won't end it, it will just start a "CHANGE IT THIS IS YOUR CHANCE!" or "OMG CHANGE IT BACK!" spam of threads.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Turelus wrote:
An official statement won't end it, it will just start a "CHANGE IT THIS IS YOUR CHANCE!" or "OMG CHANGE IT BACK!" spam of threads.

Or, the people who threaten to leave if Paizo doesn't do what they demand will actually LEAVE.

But that doesn't happen on the internet. The loudest "I'm gonna leave unless ...." people are always there 6 months later, with some other foot-stomping threat.

It would be nice to see people behave ethically and do what they say they're going to do. But those "ethical" stances are almost always a bluff. They don't actually follow their own code.


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CrystalSeas wrote:
Turelus wrote:
An official statement won't end it, it will just start a "CHANGE IT THIS IS YOUR CHANCE!" or "OMG CHANGE IT BACK!" spam of threads.

Or, the people who threaten to leave if Paizo doesn't do what they demand will actually LEAVE.

But that doesn't happen on the internet. The loudest "I'm gonna leave unless ...." people are always there 6 months later, with some other foot-stomping threat.

It would be nice to see people behave ethically and do what they say they're going to do. But those "ethical" stances are almost always a bluff. They don't actually follow their own code.

So you are saying they would probably fall?

I'll let myself out...

The Exchange

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Ba dum tish!!


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CrystalSeas wrote:
Turelus wrote:
An official statement won't end it, it will just start a "CHANGE IT THIS IS YOUR CHANCE!" or "OMG CHANGE IT BACK!" spam of threads.

Or, the people who threaten to leave if Paizo doesn't do what they demand will actually LEAVE.

But that doesn't happen on the internet. The loudest "I'm gonna leave unless ...." people are always there 6 months later, with some other foot-stomping threat.

It would be nice to see people behave ethically and do what they say they're going to do. But those "ethical" stances are almost always a bluff. They don't actually follow their own code.

I think I am far too cynical and spend too much time on forums (not these ones though) to believe an official statement will ever end a debate like this.

Even well into the release of 2E the debate will be had by people because there are groups who just want different things from their Paladins. Which is fine and can be solved around home games, but people will have to accept the choices Paizo make will be law in society gaming.


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We should as a community, and part of me feels my skin crawl at this suggestion, take a cue from the World of Warcraft fan base and just start responding to threats of Leaving Forever with "can I have your characters' stuff?".

Dark Archive

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Solution is easy.We kill the paladins.


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I like the cut of this dragon's jib.

But hey, let's not leave a good job half assed. Let's kill everyone else while we're at it!

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

First adventure path is an Evil campaign, set to block off the heavens so that all paladins everywhere lose their powers?

Shadow Lodge

Well that's just one plane, isn't it? You'd need to seperate all the planes from each other entirely.


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Inevitables set up a toll road ....


"Leaving forever". Maybe it's like all those people who said they'll move to Canada if Trump wins, or who vowed they would boycott Modern Warfare 2 because it didn't have dedicated servers.


They probably can’t tell us at this point. Hell, they may not even know.

Shadow Lodge

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Considering one of the higher ups is on record saying if he'd had his way Skalds and Bloodragers would've been "any non-lawful" I'm sure they know.

What I'm not sure about is if that viewpoint has changed or not.


Paladins are raging? So what happened to the barbarians? Did they become the new paladins?

Dark Archive

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Sadida wrote:
Paladins are raging? So what happened to the barbarians? Did they become the new paladins?

CN paladins.


I've been informed that, in the podcast, they said Alignment is pretty much the same, but *some* alignment restrictions will go away.
Some, but not all. Hum...
Little research: in the core books, there are 5 core classes with alignment restrictions:
Cleric (varies on the deity)
Barbarian (any non-lawful)
Druid (any neutral)
Monk (any lawful)
Paladin (lawful good).

Who wants to roll the dice?

For me, they should keep paladin, druid and cleric, from most important to less important.


If I had to bet, I'd bet Clerics will still be forced to be close to their god's ethos. Paladins too. So Paladins of Saerenrae can be LG, NG or CG, :)


I would imagine clerics are unchanged.

Monks and barbarians I could easily see losing restrictions.

Druid is a coin toss.

Paladin is the tough question. I would guess Paizo to be on the side of loosening it, but not enough to wager money on it.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

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Nathanael Love wrote:
I'd so no matter what they do, a Paladin should not get a rage ability.

But they cause so much RAGE.

Orthos wrote:
Is there REALLY a need to make a SECOND thread for this???

As no one has power over the wind to contain it, so no one has power to stop the proliferation of Paladin threads. As no one is discharged in time of nerd rage, so wickedness will not release those who practice it. (Ecclesiastes 8:8)


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gustavo iglesias wrote:
If I had to bet, I'd bet Clerics will still be forced to be close to their god's ethos. Paladins too. So Paladins of Saerenrae can be LG, NG or CG, :)

From where I sit "Paladin of Sarenrae" is exactly as meaningful as "Gunslinger of Shelyn" or "Wizard of Desna"... which is to say, you're a person who has a job that happens to worship that deity, and that's it.

A person who is a holy warrior for a church or deity should be a different class entirely- some sort of warpriest/inquisitor amalgam.

Shadow Lodge

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With the archetype that gives you a domain in Pathfinder 1, you can pick up Rage and a coup,e rage powers as a paladin. :)

In a planar book Druids got an archetype that changed their alignment restrictions to LG, CG, LE, or CE based on which plane they were working with.

Martial Artist for monk removes the alignment restrictions all together.

Paizo is not afraid to mess with restrictions a bit. That's promising.


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In the first thread Jason told us to cool down and that there's already an entire blog post planned to break down all the new rules and ways they've handled the paladin.

Chill out people.
Diplomacy: 1d20 + 18 ⇒ (1) + 18 = 19

Paizo Employee Customer Service Representative

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I am locking this thread. Further discussion can happen in the existing thread

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