The Timeline & Golarian-Centric Pathfinder


Prerelease Discussion

Grand Lodge

This was one of the things that at first sounded spectacular, but after seeing someone else's concern in another Thread, made me think.

I think publishing a new Campaign Setting book (a couple months or so after The Core [or PHB, DMG, B] is good, but I'm really concerned about the Timeline.

I understand that Paizo will publish campaign setting material under the premise that events in the Adventure Paths have ALREADY occurred; that makes sense. But I'm concerned you'll get too specific.

[AP SPOILERS:]
Here's what I mean: I believe it was Erik Mona or Jason Bulmahn who used Korvosa as an example -- that it will be introduced with a new ruler since Queen Ileosa is killed in the AP. And that AP was a decade ago.

I have two concerns.

One, some of us may be still waiting to play an AP or two. As for me, the three Cheliax APs are still mysteries. I'm still avoiding spoilers on Council of Thieves, Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance. I'd hate to get the new campaign setting book in, I dunno maybe, December 2019 and have all kinds of Westcrown stuff that's after CoT and all kinds of Kintargo stuff that's after HR.

You Know lots of folks will have not had the chance to play War for the Crown by then.

Which brings me to my second concern, how can you publish specific information on the places Paizo's done an AP on? Gazillions of gamers have done CotCT and gazillions-plus-one have done RotRL, etc. And we ALL finished those campaigns differently!

Some of us have Neolandus Kalepopolus on the throne in Korvosa. Some of us have a Vampire Ileosa on the Crimson Throne. I'm sure some PCs have resurrected The Saffron King or put Sabina Merrin or Cressida Kroft or Vencarlo on the throne. Some groups have the old PCs as a council of rulers that are now NPCs.

So ultimately, whatever Paizo publishes for Korvosa -- and the Worldwound, and Kintargo, and Sandpoint, and don't get started on the Stolen Lands in The River Kingdoms -- it's going to be different from MOST players' experiences.

Here's what I hope:
That as Jacobs and Moreland and Frazier and Daigle and everyone else who will or may work on campaign setting material for PF2 releases, you PLEASE keep away from specifics, and really consider that, since for some, The Worldwound is still open -- Karzoug is still asleep -- Queen Ileosa hasn't assassinated her husband .... And so you leave some things blank, or ambiguous, or really generic.

Scarab Sages

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I disagree. This is one thing I really, really enjoyed about Faerun, is that the world felt living. Novels and adventures advanced the storyline of the world every 2 to 5 years or so. This is one thing I really dislike about Golarion, is that the world is so stagnant. For 10 years, nothing in it has changed.

I want to see what new kingdom has sprung up in the Stolen Lands. I don't care if its not the same one as the group I ran through it created. Perhaps they can send out a call for people to write up what happened and their kingdom and use the best one. That would be cool. I think we need to know who's currently on the throne in different places and make the world feel dynamic. After 10 years, its time to know the outcome of the world.

Dark Archive

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Thing is, AP timeline does progress since Golarion date follows real life dates, so eventually it will get ridiculous if 20 years has passed and Abrogail II is still 21 :P So it is better to just take AP's account at least ones whose completion does affect world at large if you ask me. I have wanted for long time know how some of AP things affect larger world around them.

Grand Lodge

Yeah, that's why I was really excited, jazzed, when this part was revealed.

I'm just asking for the designers to consider the parts of the setting that, because of the APs, have already dramatically changed for each individual group in different ways -- and stay a little ambiguous or generic when writing those sections.

Publish new Korvosa and River Kingdoms and Worldwound and Katapesh material, etc., but leave some of the parts very non-specific, generic -- with some holes.

Of course, Paizo still has Kyonin & 5-Kings-Mountains, Nidal, Galt, etc., parts of Varisia, Cheliax, Taldor, Andoran, Osirion, whole swaths of the Verduran and Mwangi and Linnorm Kings' Lands and Mammoth Realms -- and Absalom -- all available for new, fresh, timeline advancing material, even dramatic new material.

But for a score or so of locations, consider being somewhat vague or incomplete -- the places you know that so many of your customers have played in quite a bit over the years (the APs) -- and are going to be different for every group.


W E Ray wrote:

Yeah, that's why I was really excited, jazzed, when this part was revealed.

I'm just asking for the designers to consider the parts of the setting that, because of the APs, have already dramatically changed for each individual group in different ways -- and stay a little ambiguous or generic when writing those sections.

Publish new Korvosa and River Kingdoms and Worldwound and Katapesh material, etc., but leave some of the parts very non-specific, generic -- with some holes.

Of course, Paizo still has Kyonin & 5-Kings-Mountains, Nidal, Galt, etc., parts of Varisia, Cheliax, Taldor, Andoran, Osirion, whole swaths of the Verduran and Mwangi and Linnorm Kings' Lands and Mammoth Realms -- and Absalom -- all available for new, fresh, timeline advancing material, even dramatic new material.

But for a score or so of locations, consider being somewhat vague or incomplete -- the places you know that so many of your customers have played in quite a bit over the years (the APs) -- and are going to be different for every group.

I'd love to see an AP set in the Mwangi Expanse. Indiana Jones in Pathfinder? Yes please!!!


I note the OP's concern. I can see people thinking, "That's not what happened in my campaign" or thinking that a particular set of events shook out in ways that didn't seem likely from the set pieces in the AP. That said, most gamers I know accept that their campaigns happen in a vacuum, although the odd throwback NPC is always appreciated.

I'm thinking they'll do competitions with the community to see how world-shaking events have affected the setting. Community will get to vote on the shortlist. I'm keen to see the shake out from the Kingmaker and Jade Regent AP's. The former in particular with it's consequences for Brevoy's cival war, First world politics, Pitax and the rest of the River Kingdoms. I never got to play/run it but have ideas on what could have transpired...

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Patrick Newcarry wrote:
I'd love to see an AP set in the Mwangi Expanse. Indiana Jones in Pathfinder? Yes please!!!

Well, there is Serpent's Skull. It is not the brightest of the bunch, though.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

I for one am not a huge fan of advancing timelines as it is - simply because the GM has the additional task of matching publication dates with the "current year" to determine which material is "trustworthy", and which may contain evolutions that either have not happened yet, or will be spoilers to the players.

That being said, if a advancing timeline is set in stone, I would rather have editorial control over it, instead of "crowdfunding" the setting. Legend of the five Rings and Seventh Sea tried that. The results were not pretty (to me, at least).


TerraNova wrote:

I for one am not a huge fan of advancing timelines as it is - simply because the GM has the additional task of matching publication dates with the "current year" to determine which material is "trustworthy", and which may contain evolutions that either have not happened yet, or will be spoilers to the players.

That being said, if a advancing timeline is set in stone, I would rather have editorial control over it, instead of "crowdfunding" the setting. Legend of the five Rings and Seventh Sea tried that. The results were not pretty (to me, at least).

I think here though matching up the publication date and timeline will be pretty simple. 1E modules will be on Inner Sea World Guild timeline, 2E modules will be CRB/Inner Sea 2.0 timeline.


Mystara, the old Basic DnD setting was great for a living world up until the point where TSR shut them down. They were producing a yearly almanac of current events happening in the world for each year. It was great for ideas!

Grand Lodge

Felinus wrote:
I can see people thinking, "That's not what happened in my campaign" or thinking that a particular set of events shook out in ways that didn't seem likely from the set pieces in the AP.

.

It's not that so much as, for the fifteen or so locations that Paizo KNOWS is different for every group -- be a little vague and incomplete when writing for those locations.

For example....

Korvosa: A paragraph or so of detailed history followed by a couple sentences about recent changes and upheaval -- left vague and brief. This way the hundreds and hundreds of gamers who have done CotCT can fill in the blanks with their own material, AND the groups who just got the Hardback but haven't played it yet can play it with no spoilers.

Worldwound: A paragraph or so of detailed history followed by a couple sentences about recent changes and closure -- left vague and ambiguous. This way the hundreds and hundreds of gamers who have done WotR can fill in the blanks with their own material, AND the groups who haven't played it yet can play it with no spoilers.

Same with Westcrown. And Kintargo. And Sandpoint. And The Stolen Lands in the River Kingdoms. ....And maybe a few other locations -- Taldor seems obvious since that AP is only just starting.

You include these places in the new Campaign Setting material -- just leave some holes. There's still SO MUCH stuff that you can really develop and advance.

After the Korvosa paragraph you can do great stuff with Ilsurian. Great stuff with Palin's Cove.

Nidal-- free reign
Thuvia-- free reign
Razmiran-- free reign
Galt is free reign. Sure, a handful of folks played The Red Raven and will have a different feel for Galt -- but nothing like the number of gamers who played Kingmaker or Hell's Rebels or Wrath of the Righteous.

....Speaking to the excellent point Felinus makes -- I know we'll have to acknowledge some differences. No one in the universe except for my group knows we killed Treerazer. So when Kyonin and Tanglebriar material is published I know it's going to be different from my game. And that's of course the way it should be.

I'm just advocating for delicate steps on those locations where Paizo KNOWS that tons and tons of gamers have lots of personal investment in the locations -- AND -- tons and tons of other gamers are still waiting to play those Adventure Paths.


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Using the old setting guide for the places you want to play the APs in and using the new setting guide for places were you already played the APs in or are not interested playing the APs is, I believe, managable

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