Request: Unlimited 1e replay


Pathfinder Society Playtest

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Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Some people would like to continue playing their vast stable of 1e PCs. Make it possible for the player to play those PCs as long as they like by opening up unlimited replay for 1e scenarios after 2e goes live.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

I don't like this idea but it was taken, I assume the rule that a character can not have two chronicles for the same adventure applied to them would remain.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yes. But some players have 50 PCs at this point and telling them they have to abandon some PCs at low level because they ran out of scenarios is not a positive in my opinion.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

I understand your view point, I just respectfully disagree with it.

3/5

I can see expanding replay, but would not support unlimited replay, despite the truly stupid # of characters I have for PFS.

3/5

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I agree with Michael. I had Aspirations to get one of each class to 12th level. I support unlimited replay for 1e scenarios/mods/APs once 2e launches.

Dreams are potentially dashed now, quintuply so if 2nd ed doesn't work out for me.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

If more replay becomes an option, then I hope not will normal rewards. For those that still want to enjoy the campaign (and really the GMs) some rather powerful player rewards from season 4 really should stay limited.

The Exchange 5/5

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ah... I guess if we are trying to kill off 1st Ed. this would be a good start. I know I'd stop playing it if unlimited replays were the norm...

4/5 ****

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I feel like unlimited replay is the same as lets put it out to pasture. It's dead.

Maybe that's okay, but say maybe wait a year from the end of the campaign or even just 6 months.

4/5

Honestly is it going to matter once the switch to 2e happens?

They seem like they won't be making more scenarios for 1e PFS and I would think that by the end of the first year of 2e most conventions will stop offering 1e PFS games. I imagine many other gaming locations will make the switch once their player bases makes it hard to muster for 1e.

When new material isn't coming out, and official support for the 1e PFS campaign is over, do you really have an Organized Play campaign anymore?

Is Paizo going to keep a roster of Venture Officers to cover legacy 1e PFS issues?

Personally I don't see the point of worrying about 1e PFS rules after the campaign is all but officially dead.

But unlimited replay after the campaign ends, officially endorsed by Paizo, could cut into the number of players switching to 2e at major conventions. You really don't want to compete with yourself and that could encourage people running both 1e and 2e PFS events at the same cons which could split the player bases there.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

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The Only Star wrote:


Is Paizo going to keep a roster of Venture Officers to cover legacy 1e PFS issues?

There is no separate stable of VOs by campaign. For the most part it's the same folks doing PFS, SFS, and ACG right now, I don't know why we would need separate folks for 1e and 2e.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If they cared about 1e "competing" with 2e, they would put a hard stop to the 1e PFS campaign next year and stop supporting at all, like WotC did when they went from Living Greyhawk to Living Forgotten Realms to Adventurer's League. But being willing to have 1e coexist with 2e says they'd rather compete with themselves than have people leave for a competitor's product.

4/5

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Michael Hallet wrote:
If they cared about 1e "competing" with 2e, they would put a hard stop to the 1e PFS campaign next year and stop supporting at all, like WotC did when they went from Living Greyhawk to Living Forgotten Realms to Adventurer's League. But being willing to have 1e coexist with 2e says they'd rather compete with themselves than have people leave for a competitor's product.

Except you can still play and download the LFR scenarios and I also know quite a few people that played Living Greyhawk after that ended. They just stopped making new content.

The same way Paizo will stop making new content for 1e PFS by July 2019.

The only difference is that Paizo will still let you report scenarios, and I assume Wizards doesn't anymore [Though I know they could for LFR a few years ago, even after AL's launch.]

That's not saying that they want to coexist, that's just admitting the fact that people can still play games even if a company stops printing more books.

Nothing in the FAQ or announcement made it seems like Paizo will still be making 1e PFS boons for conventions for after July 2019, or releasing new guides, or putting anymore resources into it.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

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From my experiences regarding conventions, people still like older editions, and the robust framework of organized play will likely draw players for years to come.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

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I vote no for unlimited or even expanded replay

Sovereign Court 5/5

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
From my experiences regarding conventions, people still like older editions, and the robust framework of organized play will likely draw players for years to come.

I will have to say my experience is very much the reverse of your statement.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

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I vote with Bob. No unlimited replay...coming from someone with 56 PCs

2/5 5/5 **

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Pirate Rob wrote:
I feel like unlimited replay is the same as lets put it out to pasture. It's dead.

The impression that I got from the OP portion of the PF2 FAQ is that that's exactly what it is. They'll support bookkeeping but nothing else. No scenarios, no boons, no convention support, no regional support program, no Paizo organized games at conventions like GenCon.

Please correct me if I misunderstood the FAQ.


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Sir Ol'Guy wrote:
ah... I guess if we are trying to kill off 1st Ed. this would be a good start. I know I'd stop playing it if unlimited replays were the norm...

As far as I've been informed, 1st edition loses all support, new content, support boons, etc. Just as there will be people that have time to play SFS, 1st, & 2nd edition indefinitely, just as many will be able to play only one system. For myself and others, 1st edition will all but die on Aug 2019. And everyday beyond will bring obscurity to the old system, because if you stick with 1st edition, you'll fall behind the player curve quickly. The 1st edition is officially dead in my eyes the day 2nd edition goes live, and only playing scenarios from 1st edition for fun is all that it will be. Not for special credit, not for cool chronicle boons, etc.

All those should become null and void, and not benefit 2nd edition at all. Because who will plays an unsupported edition when the new shiny improved version is available everywhere?

Scarab Sages 5/5

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Those who want to play something. There are a lot of players that play 6 or more times a month. There isn't going to be enough Starfinder and PFS2 content to fill that.

Sovereign Court 4/5 * Organized Play Manager

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Blake's Tiger wrote:
Pirate Rob wrote:
I feel like unlimited replay is the same as lets put it out to pasture. It's dead.

The impression that I got from the OP portion of the PF2 FAQ is that that's exactly what it is. They'll support bookkeeping but nothing else. No scenarios, no boons, no convention support, no regional support program, no Paizo organized games at conventions like GenCon.

Please correct me if I misunderstood the FAQ.

The FAQ addressed our publication of content, ie scenarios. It didn't include anything on convention support, RSP, convention scheduling, or boons.

At a minimum, PFS1 tables will count for event support. Whether we do new boons/RSP or continue with the 2018 versions or revert to older versions is a topic for discussion. Conventions are able to schedule PFS1 and I anticipate at least a few tables at the Paizo-organized conventions.

Given we have 17 months to PFS2 launch, we have time to solicit feedback. We intend to do so whenever/wherever possible as we value the community's input! So please, keep the ideas/commentary coming.

Silver Crusade 4/5

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As there will be a finite amount of content, I think that opening up more replay options would be beneficial. At the moment, with new content coming out every month, there is always a opportunity for people to play no matter how much content they've consumed so far. From August 2019 onwards, that will no longer be the case and players are going to find it harder to find to assemble tables that have had nobody play a particular scenario yet.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

For those planning things out. Assuming the typical release schedule of 2 games per month plus some extras in August, that's about 74 xp still to be published. That's played + GM'd. Add in your stars, and evergreen games. Then add in whatever's left in your back catalog. And that's the total you have for going forward.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Even the announcement of 2E has not changed my mind about unlimited replay.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta

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James Anderson wrote:
For those planning things out. Assuming the typical release schedule of 2 games per month plus some extras in August, that's about 74 xp still to be published. That's played + GM'd. Add in your stars, and evergreen games. Then add in whatever's left in your back catalog. And that's the total you have for going forward.

Plus the Core variation, as well.

Silver Crusade 2/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

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I absolutely vote for expanded, if not unlimited, replay of 1e scenarios once 2e launches.

2/5 5/5 **

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

@ Tonya: Thank you for the clarification.

In small PF populations (not necessarily small cities because my city is very large and has few PF players), the opportunity to play is limited. Once PFS PF2 is released, I anticipate our VC/VL will push that line of content and PFS PF1 will fall to the same fate as SFS: obscurity.

Anyhow, I guess what will happen in my area is that PFS PF1 will be played unofficially unless there's some incentive to GM it, so replay rules won't matter.

It's not a living campaign anyhow, if there no new content to change based on the results of scenarios.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I, too, vote for expanded replay of 1e scenarios once 2e is released.

Scarab Sages 5/5

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I vote against any further replay than we have already.

The Exchange 5/5

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Please no.

I may want to play 1E more after 2E is released.

feel free to ignore my rant:
When I do, when I sit down to a table of 1E at some CON in a couple years and am looking forward to a game of PFS that I missed - I don't want to have to tell the other players to please stop discussing the tactics of the End Boss that we haven't yet met, or how we need to make choice B2 because they have taken path A1 thru A3 the other six times they played this...

Unlimited/unrestricted Replays is not 1E PFS. It is somebodies home game. I currently have Unlimited/Unrestricted Replays of any and all Scenarios (and APs and Mods and 3rd party products) - just not in Society.

Sovereign Court 1/5

I don't think unlimited replays is the right answer, but with no new content coming and some number of people not wanting to make the switch to PF2, there's going to need to be some sort of expanded replay rule for it to keep going.

Maybe something like once you've played every adventure in a season you get a replay for that season or something, I dunno.

Scarab Sages 5/5

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ZᴇɴN wrote:

I don't think unlimited replays is the right answer, but with no new content coming and some number of people not wanting to make the switch to PF2, there's going to need to be some sort of expanded replay rule for it to keep going.

Maybe something like once you've played every adventure in a season you get a replay for that season or something, I dunno.

I don't mean to be callous, but frankly, if they are unwilling to switch to PF2 & PFS2, where the new content will be, and they play out all 400+ play options for PFS1, then that is their own fault for not having further play content. And I don't feel that the campaign should make special rules for people who are unwilling to change with the system.

3/5

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Tallow wrote:
ZᴇɴN wrote:

I don't think unlimited replays is the right answer, but with no new content coming and some number of people not wanting to make the switch to PF2, there's going to need to be some sort of expanded replay rule for it to keep going.

Maybe something like once you've played every adventure in a season you get a replay for that season or something, I dunno.

I don't mean to be callous, but frankly, if they are unwilling to switch to PF2 & PFS2, where the new content will be, and they play out all 400+ play options for PFS1, then that is their own fault for not having further play content. And I don't feel that the campaign should make special rules for people who are unwilling to change with the system.

To qualify my statements, I'll start by saying that I don't know enough about 2nd Ed to know if I like it or not. That said ...

You absolutely meant to be callous. Stop lying. Your response boils down to, "don't like 2e and don't want to come with us over to the new stuff? Hah, go piss yourself."

Please be better than this kind of behavior PFS.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

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On the replay issue: I am for expanding replays once 2e launches.

I am also for expanding replays right now on the following:

1) 8-00 Cosmic Captive

If you are crazy enough to ever want to play or run it again, it is very unlikely that you would have the same experience going through it the second time as the first. There are multiple routes, and each one was very different. I think it should be a replayable for those crazy enough to want to try it again, especially if you do it on a different tier than the first time that you played it. If 8-99 can be replayed, 8-00 should be able to be.

2) Expanding all evergreens to be replayable throughout their range.

This means that Gallows of Madness would be replayable on second and third, and that the 1-5 quests (8-16 House of Harmonious Wisdom!) and (9-16 Fallen Family, Broken Name) are replayable on levels 2-5. Same deal with the other modules.

Hmm

Scarab Sages 5/5

The Fourth Horseman wrote:
Tallow wrote:
ZᴇɴN wrote:

I don't think unlimited replays is the right answer, but with no new content coming and some number of people not wanting to make the switch to PF2, there's going to need to be some sort of expanded replay rule for it to keep going.

Maybe something like once you've played every adventure in a season you get a replay for that season or something, I dunno.

I don't mean to be callous, but frankly, if they are unwilling to switch to PF2 & PFS2, where the new content will be, and they play out all 400+ play options for PFS1, then that is their own fault for not having further play content. And I don't feel that the campaign should make special rules for people who are unwilling to change with the system.

To qualify my statements, I'll start by saying that I don't know enough about 2nd Ed to know if I like it or not. That said ...

You absolutely meant to be callous. Stop lying. Your response boils down to, "don't like 2e and don't want to come with us over to the new stuff? Hah, go piss yourself."

Please be better than this kind of behavior PFS.

Wow, that is not at all what I said, and no, I'm not lying. I'm not trying to be harsh or callous. I feel for people who may not like the new system and may really want to keep playing PFS1.

But we've been given roughly 16 months advance warning, and a years worth of playtest to figure out if you like the new system or not. With that warning, we know what will happen on August 2019. No more content for PFS1 will be produced.

That's a reality. Not me wanting it to be one way or another. Not me taking sides. Not me telling anyone to "go piss yourself." The reality is, if you play yourself out of PFS1 content, and you refuse to switch to PFS2, then that is your own fault. Pure and simple. That's the reality of it.

Because that's the reality does not mean that new rules for PFS1 need to be enacted that would make PFS1 worse for it, just so people can keep paying a campaign that doesn't have any new content for it anymore. I mean really, lets say you play PFS1 for another 10 years, with unlimited replay. How many times can you (are you) really going to play the same scenario over and over before you just get tired of it and quit altogether (or begrudgingly switch to PFS2)?

1/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ZᴇɴN wrote:
Maybe something like once you've played every adventure in a season you get a replay for that season or something, I dunno.

I like this idea.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My reasoning is this. I have 21 PCs. I would like it to be possible to play all of them to level 12, I don't think the total offerings of available scenarios at the end of the PF1 campaign will allow that to happen.

Scarab Sages 5/5

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Michael Hallet wrote:
My reasoning is this. I have 21 PCs. I would like it to be possible to play all of them to level 12, I don't think the total offerings of available scenarios at the end of the PF1 campaign will allow that to happen.

I have 38, I'd like to play them all too. I currently have about 11 of those at Seeker level, two of which literally can never play again (level 19 and 20).

I believe there is enough content to get like 15 to 20 up to level 12 at least.

Dark Archive

Sure, unlimited may be heavy handed at this time but some form of expanded replay system will be needed in the future. We will lose some players and tables will become harder to fill. We already have people that have played in the other version (Core/Classic) or using a replay and they aren't spoiling everything so that shouldn't be an issue with respectful players.

And on the other side of the coin if you haven't consumed those scenarios by that point isn't it your fault you are at a table with those who have run it? It goes both ways and there isn't a reason we should keep either group from a table.

2/5 5/5 **

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Tallow wrote:
Not me taking sides. Not me telling anyone to "go piss yourself." The reality is, if you play yourself out of PFS1 content, and you refuse to switch to PFS2, then that is your own fault. Pure and simple. That's the reality of it.

You are taking sides if, you, willing to switch to PFS PF2 say that people playing PFS PF1 shouldn't get replays (expanded or unlimited).

Maybe the people who shelled out tons of money to play PFS PF1 don't want to shell out the same amount of money to replace the books they bought (maybe even within the last year) whether out of lack of funds or out of principle or because the aliens told them not to.

Whatever their reason, you don't get to make a value judgement ("it's their fault") on the people who don't switch to PF2.

For me, if I'm going to stay with PFS and switch to PF2. I'm not going to have anyone to run PFS PF1 scenarios for me around here.

Scarab Sages 5/5

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Blake's Tiger wrote:
Tallow wrote:
Not me taking sides. Not me telling anyone to "go piss yourself." The reality is, if you play yourself out of PFS1 content, and you refuse to switch to PFS2, then that is your own fault. Pure and simple. That's the reality of it.

You are taking sides if, you, willing to switch to PFS PF2 say that people playing PFS PF1 shouldn't get replays (expanded or unlimited).

You are making a huge assumption. That I'm going to switch. I haven't played much PFS in the last year and a half. I burned out pretty badly. I'm excited for PF2 and the changes it can make to how the game rules are presented that can fix a lot of the reasons I burned out on PF1 and PFS1.

But there is no guarantee that I'm going to like PF2 or choose to play PFS2. And if I don't, I likely just simply won't play much PFS at all, and if I do, it will be PFS1.

Please stop assuming I'm just shouting out my preference for how things should be because I'm going to play the new system and damned to all who don't. I'm not.

I don't want unlimited replay in case I choose to only play PFS1 from August 2019 and forward.


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Unlimited replay might be a fair concession... better would be not killing the system and treating version 2 as a separate Society and if it takes off great if it doesn't too bad... if there's not going to be some way to transfer characters to the new system we're so much time and work has been invested in the characters you're going to lose me and I'm not going to be the only one you lose

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

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Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:


2) Expanding all evergreens to be replayable throughout their range.

This means that Gallows of Madness would be replayable on second and third, and that the 1-5 quests (8-16 House of Harmonious Wisdom!) and (9-16 Fallen Family, Broken Name) are replayable on levels 2-5. Same deal with the other modules.

If nothing else, please this. I would love for evergreens to be fully replayable anywhere in tier from the beginning in 2e, as well.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

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They are fully replayable in Starfinder, and it is so freeing. There is less bookkeeping, and no burning stars to have to play an evergreen on level two.

Hmm

The Exchange 5/5

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After the transition to 2E, if there are enough players (and I think 5 would be enough... say my home group for example) who don't want to make the transition and want to still play "PFS 1ST Edition Forever!" ... we'll just write our own scenarios.

Several of us did it for a while after LG ended, and that was a "Hard Stop" on a campaign... that other company pulled the support and actively tried to close down play in the old system. Heck, that's one part of why PFS got such a good start up. It wasn't the lack of material that ended "Legacy Greyhawk" it was PFS... at least partly.

Play everything and want some more? Check around and get someone to write you a few scenarios. Or write some yourself. If you want it bad enough, there are likely several thousand other people in the world who want it just as bad - and some of those will feel thrilled to creat things.

Sovereign Court 5/5 5/5 ****

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nosig wrote:

It wasn't the lack of material that ended "Legacy Greyhawk" it was PFS... at least partly.

Heck, locally, I was recently made aware of people who are *still* playing 'Undead Greyhawk' (although admittedly, that is because they are working their way through the old '(Meta-)Regional' scenarios).

I am sure that if there is a market for it, there is scope for a fan-based 'continuation' of PFS 1E.

1/5 5/5

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...coming from a campaign where the rules set was no longer supported two years after I joined the campaign and then staying with it for nearly two decades I can promise you that it will be a *lot* of work to do something like that, and every rules call you make past End of Service is going to give you a migraine, even if it seems simple and quick at first glance.

Good luck.

The Exchange 5/5

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GM Wageslave wrote:


...coming from a campaign where the rules set was no longer supported two years after I joined the campaign and then staying with it for nearly two decades I can promise you that it will be a *lot* of work to do something like that, and every rules call you make past End of Service is going to give you a migraine, even if it seems simple and quick at first glance.

Good luck.

Thank you!

Currently every rules call I make can give me a Migraine... After all, I do have the Take 10 T-shirt.

But if the 2E rules are "Bad" with a capitol "B", I'll likley just keep playing 1E - and likely still keep playing PFS (even if it's some "Fan Based Version"). I know this because I already did it once... I never did play the 2nd edition of that other popular RPG. Or the 4th edition for that matter...

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

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I'm in the 'open replay' camp.

The problem really stems from old guard players being in the mix with the newer players - the older players get to a point where they can't really go back and round out tables etc for the newer ones who stick with 1e for a while longer.

Opening replay also allows us to run the odd 'classic' at a con and be confident that it will get filled and be a viable table.

I'm really not getting where the 'no' vote is coming from. I get why replay is bad in a live Org Play environment, but a legacy system that is no longer being supported and finite material then who cares? Why constrain the people who DO want to hang around in it a bit longer, especially as the population will keep falling and Org play games get less viable for them over time.

1/5 5/5

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:steps up to the soapbox, clears throat:

I was in a different organized play campaign for nearly two decades.

One of the problems we were beginning to run into as the system had not been supported for nearly that long (save for internally within the campaign).

All of our content was self-produced.

Even with the restriction 'must have author permission to replay', it did open up the campaign -- for a while.

However, as was noted with other campaigns in the past, the same 'old guard' would continue to show up, the same scenarios/modules would be run (since that was what the GMs were familiar with it was far easier for them to be run) and the ride to complete absurdity was on.

While the campaign could have a 'beer and pretzels' mode -- the original material was built on that concept -- it stopped being fun after the third replay of 'x' and everyone was actively trying to fail a given mission.

That's just one example from an isolated corner of RPG campaigns, there are others that can share far, far worse about the damage that such a thing can do to organized play, and there was at least one person who had done up a very solid timeline of it.

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