So I am a bit confused with Genie Style from Elemental Monk.
"At 2nd level, as a swift action an elemental monk can gain the benefits of one of the following style feats, based on one of the five types of genies. When she does so, she automatically enters that feat’s stance: Djinni Style, Efreeti Style, Janni Style, Marid Style, or Shaitan Style."
As what is tripping me up is that normally something like Djinni Style gives you the initial the benefit of "You gain one additional Elemental Fist attempt per day." Which is usually upon purchase of the feat or temporarily obtaining it.
Yet the way the feature is written, it doesn't state anything about getting the feat like with Brawler or Master of Many Styles. It also doesn't state anything about the bonus Elemental Fist uses from 4:5 styles given. Simply just that you can enter the styles as swift actions and gain their benefits.
My initial impression was "Is this Style Cycling for Elemental Fist uses?" Yet I feel like I am somehow misreading it.
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You get the "benefits" of the feats, which means you get what's written in the beenfits section of the chosen feat.
It's still far from clear, because strictly as written, you can use 5 swift actions to get all feats active at once. There's not given duration, and no text that says you replace the existing feats. If you tie the effects to the stances (which I presume is RAI), you get the bonus EF use when in one of the 4 elemental styles, and lose the bonsu use at end of combat until you enter one of these stances again.
Just as a warning, in addition to the unclear wording, the archetype is super weak. I suggest unMonk with the Elemental Fury instead.
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the stance change causes you to lose the benefits of the previous style, ala ultimate combat
You lose the benefits of the stance, but not of the feat. You lose what's written in the style feat's benefits section after "While using this style", and all benefits of followup feats.
Thing is, the bonus EF use is written before that part, and thus is always active if you have the feat (or it's benefits).
Genie Style says "an elemental monk can gain the benefts" - as written, with infinite duration. Considering how ridiculously bad the archetype is (seriously, you lose all your bonus feats for an ability every character already possesses), I'd actually be fine with the archetype granting 3 or 4 extra EF uses.
For the record, the rules don't actually say that you can only be in one stance, and Genie Style doesn't talk about switching stances (you don't actually use the normal way to enter a stance). But then, RAW, all but the first paragraph of Genie Style don't work, because you aren't actually using any style feats (because you don't have any), so a little liberal reading is mandatory to make the archetype work on a technical level.
Come to think about it... maybe the stances entered with Genie Style should stack with any existing stances (which excludes the permanent duration stuff). At least that way the archetype has some merit, even if it's still a downgrade to the weakest PC class in the game.
Which is where I think Jae Wolftail is correct in this manner.
So what happens when you exit out of a style through Genie Style? Wouldn't you lose the benefits of the previous style feat since you don't actually possess the feat? As wouldn't you be gaining a new Elemental Fist use from a "new source"?
Start in Efreeti Style, swift action to Marid Style, expend elemental fist use. Next round you swift action into Efreeti Style which is treated as a "new source" as you didn't have the feat previously before Marid Style.
Normally in a monk archetype you would gain the feat with the tagline "...even if you don't meet the prerequisites." Like with, as examples, Hungry Ghost or Master of Many Styles. Which is where the "only 4 extra uses of Elemental Fist" would make sense if you gained Djinni, Efreeti, Janni,Marid, Shaitan style as feats.
Yet that is not what is happening at all with Elemental Monk. The only feat you gain from this archetype with the that tagline of "...even if you don't meet the prerequisites." is Elemental Fist. Which is why you lose all other feats with this archetype.
That when you Swift Action, even outside of combat uniquely, you are forced into a style but you don't get to keep the feat.
And since you don't have the retention of the Style Feat itself like say from Djinni Style for the extra Elemental Fist use, you treat re-entering it after what was previously Janni/Efreeti/Marid/Shaitan style as a "new source".
It is literally Style Cycling for Elemental Fist uses.
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You count all your uses of an ability during the day, even if you temporarily gain additional uses multiple times. Here's the relevant CRB FAQ:
Temporarily gaining abilities: If I temporarily gain an ability that is limited in its uses per day, am I limited in my overall uses of that ability if I can temporarily gain it more than once?
Yes. You are limited by the ability in the same way as a character that has that ability permanently. For example, if you have an ability that allows you to gain the Stunning Fist feat for a limited period of time and you use it 3 times. Those uses count against your total number of uses should you temporarily gain Stunning Fist again later that day. This limit also applies to abilities that grant additional uses of another ability (such as Extra Channel). Once used, they are consumed for the day, even if you gain the ability again.
You count all your uses of an ability during the day, even if you temporarily gain additional uses multiple times. Here's the relevant CRB FAQ:
Temporarily gaining abilities: If I temporarily gain an ability that is limited in its uses per day, am I limited in my overall uses of that ability if I can temporarily gain it more than once?
Yes. You are limited by the ability in the same way as a character that has that ability permanently. For example, if you have an ability that allows you to gain the Stunning Fist feat for a limited period of time and you use it 3 times. Those uses count against your total number of uses should you temporarily gain Stunning Fist again later that day. This limit also applies to abilities that grant additional uses of another ability (such as Extra Channel). Once used, they are consumed for the day, even if you gain the ability again.
Then shouldn't the Elemental Monk be errata'd to ignore the perquisites and gain the style feats by default in order for it be as cut and dry as possible of this class feature? That the Errata should state that Elemental Strike only replaces the Stunning Fist. While the Genie Style class feature itself states that it replaces the bonus feats in addition to what it also replaces.
If the intention by the creator is for unlimited Elemental Fist use, then the errata should have the archetype lose the "per day maximum" as presented in the FAQ.
There is no unlimited uses! Seriously, where the hell do you two get that from? At most we were talking about having the benefits of all the style feats, that's 3 extra uses (4 if you use Janni Style instead of one of the elemental ones).
I'm the first to agree that the archetype needs FAQ/erratum, but that's because the "Elemental Strike" ability is highly redundant - EF's element is always chosen on use, so the entire second sentence of Elemental Strike does absolutely nothing. That line, and thus the replacement of bonus feats, should be completely removed.
Note that using Genie Style actualy qualify as "spending a swift action to switch", so the previous stance effect should end.
No. You spend the swift action to gain the benefits of the feat, which in turn triggers entering the stance.**
Unless you're an MoM you can only have one stance active at a time
The rules don't actually say that.**
*) Note, I'm not saying that Elemental Monk is intended to have mutliple stances active, only that it's a possible RAW interpretation, and that it would be beneficial for balance.
Overall, this archetype is still not bad at all...
Say what? You trade away all your bonus feats and your 10th level Ki Power (i.e. delaying Ki Leech) for some of the worst styles in the game - how is that not horrible?
Quite frankly, Elemental Fist sucks. Hard. Let's say we're level 8, with 18 wisdom, 4 encounters á 4 rounds a day. Flurry is 3 attacks a round, plus one more from Ki half the rounds. That's 56 attacks per day. Elemental Fist does an average of 7.5 damage 10 times (that's with the wisdom bonus), for 75 theoretical bonus damage over the course of the day. That's an average of 1.34 damage per attack, i.e. not much more than a trait.
The five style chains are all pretty bad as well: The damage bonus via Elemental Fist from the first feats is minuscule compared to other styles. The triggered effects from the second feats tend to have problems (entangled allows fort save, catching fire has a neigh-irrelevant effect, and deafen is a small affect against only a small number of enemies). The elemental style third feats, as well as all three Janni feats, don't work with a full attack, and thus work against the very foundation of your class.
Shaitan Skin is normally OK-ish because it can trigger Medusa's Wrath on a failed reflex save (easier to stick than Stunning Fist), but this archetype removes all your bonus feats, so you can't grab said feat.