Palladium loses rights to Robotech rpg and Robotech Tactics Miniatures Game


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Mods please move this to the right area of the forums.

The Link:

PB Loses Robotech.

Things really don't look good for Palladium as a whole imo. Nor do I think they understand that they need to issue refunds to their backers and not discounted Robotech merchandise. As a company in charge of a failed Kickstarter they seem to think they can make the rules to salvage the fiasco they themselves created. Not only that expect the backers to pay for the shipping in some case depending on if they want miniatures. It's everyone else fault as well.

Yeah Palladium is in VERY big trouble


Wow.
Even for Palladium, just wow.


I feel sorry for the people that got screwed but some of the posts on there are comedy gold.

With any luck they somehow get a refund.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'll confess, I'm amazed Palladium is still around to make this kind of mistake in the second decade of the 21st century...

The Exchange

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Cole Deschain wrote:
I'll confess, I'm amazed Palladium is still around to make this kind of mistake in the second decade of the 21st century...

Palladium is a textbook example - literally it could end up in a business textbook - of a company that was essentially founded as a “family” business and became moderately successful. However when the time came to move to a more corporate structure it didn’t do so, retaining too much control and oversight in one person. A few good hires and Kevin stepping back a bit could have resulted in a major player. Instead they struggle on in a position where any midsize misstep or outside circumstance threatens bankruptcy. Then scrambling to do anything at all to stay solvent.

I don’t put the majority of the blame for the Kickstarter on Palladium, though. If I want to find someone to blame I can just look at these beautiful prepainted Starfinder minis from Ninja Division that are right. . . here. . . soon. . . maybe.


It took a "Herculean effort" to continue reading after the "because STL files" bit.


blahpers wrote:
It took a "Herculean effort" to continue reading after the "because STL files" bit.

Yeah... uh... convert the files? I personally have 3 different programs on my home PC that could do so, and two of them are purchase free. Is Ninja Division losing money on this too? That would be unfortunate as I very much like Super Dungeon Explore.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Belafon wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
I'll confess, I'm amazed Palladium is still around to make this kind of mistake in the second decade of the 21st century...
Palladium is a textbook example - literally it could end up in a business textbook - of a company that was essentially founded as a “family” business and became moderately successful. However when the time came to move to a more corporate structure it didn’t do so, retaining too much control and oversight in one person. A few good hires and Kevin stepping back a bit could have resulted in a major player.

Well, it was for a while (mid to late 80s, early 90s)... Personally, I wish Palladium would have hired a good game system designer to fix the mechanics and let Kevin Siembieda focus on setting development.

Unfortunately, the refusal to update the base system mechanics (from what was pretty much a heavily house-ruled version of 1st Ed AD&D) in any significant way for decades meant that a lot of the fan base moved to other systems that were less of a headache, no matter how interesting the source material was. This is coming from someone who still owns his RIFTS books.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Functional dot.


Well, what's worse, is that Siembieda DID, at some time or other hire excellent designers (all the best stuff for Rifts is by CJ Carella, even after Siembieda &co's "editing", for instance).. and he managed to drive all but the most unprofessional fanboi contributords away.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dragonchess Player wrote:
Unfortunately, the refusal to update the base system mechanics (from what was pretty much a heavily house-ruled version of 1st Ed AD&D) in any significant way for decades meant that a lot of the fan base moved to other systems that were less of a headache, no matter how interesting the source material was. This is coming from someone who still owns his RIFTS books.

Real talk: I got all of my RIFTS stuff scanned into PDF form before unloading it, because I loved the setting- especially, as Klorox notes, the C.J. Carella stuff- RIFTS Undersea is still a book I read.

Loathe the system. And I wasn't that wild about it back when I was playing AD&D 2E without a complaint.


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Savage Rifts is so much better than actual Rifts.


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Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Savage Rifts is so much better than actual Rifts.

I was tempted to get that but I'm not giving anymore money to that goof.


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The Thing From Another World wrote:
Nor do I think they understand that they need to issue refunds to their backers and not discounted Robotech merchandise. As a company in charge of a failed Kickstarter they seem to think they can make the rules to salvage the fiasco they themselves created.

While, in theory, Kickstarter backers are entitled to the rewards they were offered or a full refund, refunds have pretty much never happened. "We'll definitely give you what we promised. Just be patient and wait another year, or two... Oh, but now we're bankrupt, so none of you are getting any of your money back. Better luck next time!"

Paizo Employee Customer Service Manager

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The Thing From Another World wrote:
Mods please move this to the right area of the forums.

My "move to another forum" tool has some wonkiness happening at the moment. I will move as soon as I can (probably next week).


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I'm not surprised. Palladium Books has always been, let's say, overly optimistic about their release schedule and capabilities.


Dragonchess Player wrote:
Belafon wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
I'll confess, I'm amazed Palladium is still around to make this kind of mistake in the second decade of the 21st century...
Palladium is a textbook example - literally it could end up in a business textbook - of a company that was essentially founded as a “family” business and became moderately successful. However when the time came to move to a more corporate structure it didn’t do so, retaining too much control and oversight in one person. A few good hires and Kevin stepping back a bit could have resulted in a major player.

Well, it was for a while (mid to late 80s, early 90s)... Personally, I wish Palladium would have hired a good game system designer to fix the mechanics and let Kevin Siembieda focus on setting development.

Unfortunately, the refusal to update the base system mechanics (from what was pretty much a heavily house-ruled version of 1st Ed AD&D) in any significant way for decades meant that a lot of the fan base moved to other systems that were less of a headache, no matter how interesting the source material was. This is coming from someone who still owns his RIFTS books.

You mean fix things like taking the "Boxing" skill not only skews the action economy by giving you another attack, but adds HP, SDC, and a few other attributes? My brother and I have been trying to play a Robotech game lately, and the lack of balance in the rules is just staggering. I really appreciate the playtesting done by Paizo/Pathfinder to ensure proper checks and balances are in place. Yes, there are some wonky things in the PF rules, too, but they are orders of magnitude better than the standard Palladium ruleset.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That was a fascinating read, mostly because I enjoy other peoples' drama and meltdowns.

-Skeld


TarSpartan wrote:
You mean fix things like taking the "Boxing" skill not only skews the action economy by giving you another attack, but adds HP, SDC, and a few other attributes?

*shrug* It's kind of like power attack: It's an ability every 'martial' player takes and makes as much sense... :P

Now I'm not saying there aren't issue, but I find most of them are the class balance side. There is a swing from barely functional to god-like there.

Robotech/TMNT has fewer issues in that area. Combat has quirks but are generally balance vs the same kind of character. For instance, a veritech pilot vs a Zentraedi battle pod pilot are balance fairly well. There is a problem if a non-combat scientist tries to duke it out with a special forces Zentraedi but I don't find that unrealistic. In a way, it's kind of like shadowrun where specialists are awesome at their profession but not so good in others. A decker, a rigger and a street samurai are likely to have times where they aren't as useful.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Of course, now I'm gonna go looking for some Rifts or Robotech books at Half Price Books this weekend.


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captain yesterday wrote:
I'm not surprised. Palladium Books has always been, let's say, overly optimistic about their release schedule and capabilities.

Dimension Book 9 - United Worlds of Warlock, what? ;)


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Matthew Downie wrote:
The Thing From Another World wrote:
Nor do I think they understand that they need to issue refunds to their backers and not discounted Robotech merchandise. As a company in charge of a failed Kickstarter they seem to think they can make the rules to salvage the fiasco they themselves created.
While, in theory, Kickstarter backers are entitled to the rewards they were offered or a full refund, refunds have pretty much never happened. "We'll definitely give you what we promised. Just be patient and wait another year, or two... Oh, but now we're bankrupt, so none of you are getting any of your money back. Better luck next time!"

This is why I don't do Kickstarters. It's too much like gambling.

The Exchange

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John Napier 698 wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
The Thing From Another World wrote:
Nor do I think they understand that they need to issue refunds to their backers and not discounted Robotech merchandise. As a company in charge of a failed Kickstarter they seem to think they can make the rules to salvage the fiasco they themselves created.
While, in theory, Kickstarter backers are entitled to the rewards they were offered or a full refund, refunds have pretty much never happened. "We'll definitely give you what we promised. Just be patient and wait another year, or two... Oh, but now we're bankrupt, so none of you are getting any of your money back. Better luck next time!"
This is why I don't do Kickstarters. It's too much like gambling.

When Pathfinder Online was doing their Kickstarter I wrote a very long article about the then-current track record for delivery of video-game Kickstarters. (Short version: not good.) The sheer impossibility of getting a refund if there is no delivery when all the money is going to pay salaries and overhead of a newly formed corporation. And added in the challenges that an MMO would face, mainly due to needing a critical player base. I ended it by saying "I'm going to pledge, but make sure you understand that your money will be spent and you may not get what you are promised."

I was accused of running around Kindergartens in late December screaming sad truths about the children's upcoming nocturnal visitor.


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Man, lets not turn this into an axe-(re)grinding thread.


Nods in agreement, goes back to sharpening his War Hammer.


put that luck bonuses on work people mechfinder is on the horizon.( I realy like paizo to grab usefull parts from robotech then head to life rafts)


Well the Robotech license might not be worth much since Harmony gold is suing people again over image rights. So depending on its outcome live the future of both robotech and battletech going forward. The put out a lawsuit against PGI, Harebrained Schemes and the owners of Catalyst games.

EtG


They missed Piranha Games with that lawsuit. Mechwarrior Online is made by that company, and Harebrained Schemes got permission for quite a few of its designs from them.


On the plus side, the new Battletech CRPG looks pretty nifty. Really hope it's not delayed by the lawsuit.


No Piranha is part of that lawsuit, and from I understand the Battletech pc game from Harebrained is due out late March/April time.


HOLY S##%

WE ARE LIVING IN INTERESTING TIMES


Eldred the Grey wrote:
No Piranha is part of that lawsuit, and from I understand the Battletech pc game from Harebrained is due out late March/April time.

Interesting. Hopefully, it'll get tossed out.

I'm one of the backers and their last Kickstarter update set April as a firm launch date for Harebrained.


Sarna has more on it but they are a battletech wiki site so it is semi biased but its information.


It's getting more press:

https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/2/17071612/robotech-rpg-tactics-kickstarter- disaster-palladium-books


The Thing From Another World wrote:

It's getting more press:

https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/2/17071612/robotech-rpg-tactics-kickstarter- disaster-palladium-books

Linked it for you.


Jesus.


Hopefully, they give the Rifts license to Pinnacle Entertainment. That company could take the setting far, and without the ruleset issue.


Robotech is probably more or less gone--HG loses the rights in 2021, and after that they have... the name robotech and the story. Nothing else that was used via licensed products.


John Napier 698 wrote:
This is why I don't do Kickstarters. It's too much like gambling.

I have to confess that I have backed many KickStarters. (In fact, a group of us ran a KS a few years back, 2014, were successfully funded, and tried to do everything we could to ensure that everything was delivered on time or way early in terms of rewards.) Not everyone does that.

I'm less upset about folks that can't deliver because they get overwhelmed by life and the universe (and they are legion) than about people who maliciously go into the whole venture with a view to rip folks off.

There are a number of serial KS cheaters that have bilked folks out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

More to share if you like ...


You can if you want.


Oh, Harmony Gold and Piranha have settled the lawsuit apparently so what the future holds for Robotech is very cloudy.

EtG

Grand Lodge

Kevin Siembieda is a man who should have YEARS ago delegated his company to someone else who was a competent business manager and could turn his well-loved intellectual properties into gold. He's not good at business. He visibly does not enjoy doing the kind of deals that would make his business prosper.

He's not a great or even a terribly GOOD writer but he loves his material and he loves his source material.

Let him do what he's good at. Stop him from doing what he's not good at.


That would require stockholders and a board of directors. Last I heard Palladium is an LLC (as is Paizo). The people running the show in an LLC answer to no one other than cash flow.


The Mad Comrade wrote:
That would require stockholders and a board of directors. Last I heard Palladium is an LLC (as is Paizo). The people running the show in an LLC answer to no one other than cash flow.

Doesn't require it. He could do it.

No one can force him to do it, but that doesn't mean he couldn't choose to delegate the business end.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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(Paizo has been an S-Corporation, not an LLC, since 2014.)


I wonder if we will ever see another copy-pasted list of medieval weapons again.

Bit of a tragedy though, there were some good sourcebooks for the Fantasy RPG(Adventures in the North Kingdom) plus a 'later years' book for robotech where the players could meet older versions of the main characters.


Vic Wertz wrote:
(Paizo has been an S-Corporation, not an LLC, since 2014.)

(Learn something new every day. Thanks, Vic!)


thejeff wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
That would require stockholders and a board of directors. Last I heard Palladium is an LLC (as is Paizo). The people running the show in an LLC answer to no one other than cash flow.

Doesn't require it. He could do it.

No one can force him to do it, but that doesn't mean he couldn't choose to delegate the business end.

Like I said ... ;)

Seems that he would rather lose everything than lose control of his company, such as it is.

Which is a shame in some ways. He could've made a killing in the heady days of the d20 boom.


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I think it's far too late for him to do anything, PB is sinking, fast... it's not produced anything good for years (ok, I deem the last time it produced good stuff was back when CJ Carella still worked with them), it's lost its best moneymaking licences, its only resource is a remaining core of fans whom I fear are too few to really keep the company afloat... they had become the 3rd biggest RPG company around (behind T$R and WhiteWolf) back when they produced TMNT and Robotech and started Rifts, now, they are back to near total obscurity.

Grand Lodge

thejeff wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:
That would require stockholders and a board of directors. Last I heard Palladium is an LLC (as is Paizo). The people running the show in an LLC answer to no one other than cash flow.

Doesn't require it. He could do it.

No one can force him to do it, but that doesn't mean he couldn't choose to delegate the business end.

A competent, outside business manager would NEVER have permitted Steve Sheiring to walk off with tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in memorabilia and company assets.

I considered donating to Palladium's fundraiser but ultimately declined to do so. I feel fortunate that I did not.

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