The Thing From Another World |
Mods please move this to the right area of the forums.
The Link:
Things really don't look good for Palladium as a whole imo. Nor do I think they understand that they need to issue refunds to their backers and not discounted Robotech merchandise. As a company in charge of a failed Kickstarter they seem to think they can make the rules to salvage the fiasco they themselves created. Not only that expect the backers to pay for the shipping in some case depending on if they want miniatures. It's everyone else fault as well.
Yeah Palladium is in VERY big trouble
Belafon |
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I'll confess, I'm amazed Palladium is still around to make this kind of mistake in the second decade of the 21st century...
Palladium is a textbook example - literally it could end up in a business textbook - of a company that was essentially founded as a “family” business and became moderately successful. However when the time came to move to a more corporate structure it didn’t do so, retaining too much control and oversight in one person. A few good hires and Kevin stepping back a bit could have resulted in a major player. Instead they struggle on in a position where any midsize misstep or outside circumstance threatens bankruptcy. Then scrambling to do anything at all to stay solvent.
I don’t put the majority of the blame for the Kickstarter on Palladium, though. If I want to find someone to blame I can just look at these beautiful prepainted Starfinder minis from Ninja Division that are right. . . here. . . soon. . . maybe.
Kiesman |
It took a "Herculean effort" to continue reading after the "because STL files" bit.
Yeah... uh... convert the files? I personally have 3 different programs on my home PC that could do so, and two of them are purchase free. Is Ninja Division losing money on this too? That would be unfortunate as I very much like Super Dungeon Explore.
Dragonchess Player |
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Cole Deschain wrote:I'll confess, I'm amazed Palladium is still around to make this kind of mistake in the second decade of the 21st century...Palladium is a textbook example - literally it could end up in a business textbook - of a company that was essentially founded as a “family” business and became moderately successful. However when the time came to move to a more corporate structure it didn’t do so, retaining too much control and oversight in one person. A few good hires and Kevin stepping back a bit could have resulted in a major player.
Well, it was for a while (mid to late 80s, early 90s)... Personally, I wish Palladium would have hired a good game system designer to fix the mechanics and let Kevin Siembieda focus on setting development.
Unfortunately, the refusal to update the base system mechanics (from what was pretty much a heavily house-ruled version of 1st Ed AD&D) in any significant way for decades meant that a lot of the fan base moved to other systems that were less of a headache, no matter how interesting the source material was. This is coming from someone who still owns his RIFTS books.
Cole Deschain |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Unfortunately, the refusal to update the base system mechanics (from what was pretty much a heavily house-ruled version of 1st Ed AD&D) in any significant way for decades meant that a lot of the fan base moved to other systems that were less of a headache, no matter how interesting the source material was. This is coming from someone who still owns his RIFTS books.
Real talk: I got all of my RIFTS stuff scanned into PDF form before unloading it, because I loved the setting- especially, as Klorox notes, the C.J. Carella stuff- RIFTS Undersea is still a book I read.
Loathe the system. And I wasn't that wild about it back when I was playing AD&D 2E without a complaint.
Matthew Downie |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Nor do I think they understand that they need to issue refunds to their backers and not discounted Robotech merchandise. As a company in charge of a failed Kickstarter they seem to think they can make the rules to salvage the fiasco they themselves created.
While, in theory, Kickstarter backers are entitled to the rewards they were offered or a full refund, refunds have pretty much never happened. "We'll definitely give you what we promised. Just be patient and wait another year, or two... Oh, but now we're bankrupt, so none of you are getting any of your money back. Better luck next time!"
Sara Marie Customer Service Manager |
TarSpartan |
Belafon wrote:Cole Deschain wrote:I'll confess, I'm amazed Palladium is still around to make this kind of mistake in the second decade of the 21st century...Palladium is a textbook example - literally it could end up in a business textbook - of a company that was essentially founded as a “family” business and became moderately successful. However when the time came to move to a more corporate structure it didn’t do so, retaining too much control and oversight in one person. A few good hires and Kevin stepping back a bit could have resulted in a major player.Well, it was for a while (mid to late 80s, early 90s)... Personally, I wish Palladium would have hired a good game system designer to fix the mechanics and let Kevin Siembieda focus on setting development.
Unfortunately, the refusal to update the base system mechanics (from what was pretty much a heavily house-ruled version of 1st Ed AD&D) in any significant way for decades meant that a lot of the fan base moved to other systems that were less of a headache, no matter how interesting the source material was. This is coming from someone who still owns his RIFTS books.
You mean fix things like taking the "Boxing" skill not only skews the action economy by giving you another attack, but adds HP, SDC, and a few other attributes? My brother and I have been trying to play a Robotech game lately, and the lack of balance in the rules is just staggering. I really appreciate the playtesting done by Paizo/Pathfinder to ensure proper checks and balances are in place. Yes, there are some wonky things in the PF rules, too, but they are orders of magnitude better than the standard Palladium ruleset.
graystone |
You mean fix things like taking the "Boxing" skill not only skews the action economy by giving you another attack, but adds HP, SDC, and a few other attributes?
*shrug* It's kind of like power attack: It's an ability every 'martial' player takes and makes as much sense... :P
Now I'm not saying there aren't issue, but I find most of them are the class balance side. There is a swing from barely functional to god-like there.
Robotech/TMNT has fewer issues in that area. Combat has quirks but are generally balance vs the same kind of character. For instance, a veritech pilot vs a Zentraedi battle pod pilot are balance fairly well. There is a problem if a non-combat scientist tries to duke it out with a special forces Zentraedi but I don't find that unrealistic. In a way, it's kind of like shadowrun where specialists are awesome at their profession but not so good in others. A decker, a rigger and a street samurai are likely to have times where they aren't as useful.
John Napier 698 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Thing From Another World wrote:Nor do I think they understand that they need to issue refunds to their backers and not discounted Robotech merchandise. As a company in charge of a failed Kickstarter they seem to think they can make the rules to salvage the fiasco they themselves created.While, in theory, Kickstarter backers are entitled to the rewards they were offered or a full refund, refunds have pretty much never happened. "We'll definitely give you what we promised. Just be patient and wait another year, or two... Oh, but now we're bankrupt, so none of you are getting any of your money back. Better luck next time!"
This is why I don't do Kickstarters. It's too much like gambling.
Belafon |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Matthew Downie wrote:This is why I don't do Kickstarters. It's too much like gambling.The Thing From Another World wrote:Nor do I think they understand that they need to issue refunds to their backers and not discounted Robotech merchandise. As a company in charge of a failed Kickstarter they seem to think they can make the rules to salvage the fiasco they themselves created.While, in theory, Kickstarter backers are entitled to the rewards they were offered or a full refund, refunds have pretty much never happened. "We'll definitely give you what we promised. Just be patient and wait another year, or two... Oh, but now we're bankrupt, so none of you are getting any of your money back. Better luck next time!"
When Pathfinder Online was doing their Kickstarter I wrote a very long article about the then-current track record for delivery of video-game Kickstarters. (Short version: not good.) The sheer impossibility of getting a refund if there is no delivery when all the money is going to pay salaries and overhead of a newly formed corporation. And added in the challenges that an MMO would face, mainly due to needing a critical player base. I ended it by saying "I'm going to pledge, but make sure you understand that your money will be spent and you may not get what you are promised."
I was accused of running around Kindergartens in late December screaming sad truths about the children's upcoming nocturnal visitor.
Ambrosia Slaad |
On the plus side, the new Battletech CRPG looks pretty nifty. Really hope it's not delayed by the lawsuit.
Terrinam |
No Piranha is part of that lawsuit, and from I understand the Battletech pc game from Harebrained is due out late March/April time.
Interesting. Hopefully, it'll get tossed out.
I'm one of the backers and their last Kickstarter update set April as a firm launch date for Harebrained.
Eldred the Grey |
Sarna has more on it but they are a battletech wiki site so it is semi biased but its information.
John Napier 698 |
It's getting more press:
https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/2/17071612/robotech-rpg-tactics-kickstarter- disaster-palladium-books
Linked it for you.
DrGames |
This is why I don't do Kickstarters. It's too much like gambling.
I have to confess that I have backed many KickStarters. (In fact, a group of us ran a KS a few years back, 2014, were successfully funded, and tried to do everything we could to ensure that everything was delivered on time or way early in terms of rewards.) Not everyone does that.
I'm less upset about folks that can't deliver because they get overwhelmed by life and the universe (and they are legion) than about people who maliciously go into the whole venture with a view to rip folks off.
There are a number of serial KS cheaters that have bilked folks out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
More to share if you like ...
Kittyburger |
Kevin Siembieda is a man who should have YEARS ago delegated his company to someone else who was a competent business manager and could turn his well-loved intellectual properties into gold. He's not good at business. He visibly does not enjoy doing the kind of deals that would make his business prosper.
He's not a great or even a terribly GOOD writer but he loves his material and he loves his source material.
Let him do what he's good at. Stop him from doing what he's not good at.
thejeff |
That would require stockholders and a board of directors. Last I heard Palladium is an LLC (as is Paizo). The people running the show in an LLC answer to no one other than cash flow.
Doesn't require it. He could do it.
No one can force him to do it, but that doesn't mean he couldn't choose to delegate the business end.Vic Wertz Chief Technical Officer |
The Mad Comrade |
The Mad Comrade wrote:That would require stockholders and a board of directors. Last I heard Palladium is an LLC (as is Paizo). The people running the show in an LLC answer to no one other than cash flow.Doesn't require it. He could do it.
No one can force him to do it, but that doesn't mean he couldn't choose to delegate the business end.
Like I said ... ;)
Seems that he would rather lose everything than lose control of his company, such as it is.
Which is a shame in some ways. He could've made a killing in the heady days of the d20 boom.
Klorox |
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I think it's far too late for him to do anything, PB is sinking, fast... it's not produced anything good for years (ok, I deem the last time it produced good stuff was back when CJ Carella still worked with them), it's lost its best moneymaking licences, its only resource is a remaining core of fans whom I fear are too few to really keep the company afloat... they had become the 3rd biggest RPG company around (behind T$R and WhiteWolf) back when they produced TMNT and Robotech and started Rifts, now, they are back to near total obscurity.
Kittyburger |
The Mad Comrade wrote:That would require stockholders and a board of directors. Last I heard Palladium is an LLC (as is Paizo). The people running the show in an LLC answer to no one other than cash flow.Doesn't require it. He could do it.
No one can force him to do it, but that doesn't mean he couldn't choose to delegate the business end.
A competent, outside business manager would NEVER have permitted Steve Sheiring to walk off with tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in memorabilia and company assets.
I considered donating to Palladium's fundraiser but ultimately declined to do so. I feel fortunate that I did not.