PFS-Chronicle Sheets


Pathfinder Society Playtest

101 to 150 of 309 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | next > last >>
Dark Archive 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I am against anything that massively complicates reporting.

It is hard enough now when you report all games from a convention to get the 4 checkboxes done (Because most GMs dont fill them out on their reporting sheets)

1/5

Kevin Willis wrote:


That's not exactly what I meant. There are some scenarios where an encounter has multiple "levels" of rewards possible. Such as:

1. If the PCs succeed in making the tribefolk

  • Friendly, they give the PCs [treasure worth 500 gp each].
  • Helpful, they give the PCs [treasure worth 1250 gp each].

2. If the PCs search the room,

  • A DC 20 Perception check reveals a safe with [treasure worth 78 gp each]
  • A DC 30 Perception check reveals that the safe has a false bottom, concealing [treasure worth 211 gp each]

I've GMed scenarios that have rewards very similar to those examples. I'm not saying it's impossible to do this as a series of checkboxes. I'd love it if it was done that way. But it's going to require more effort on Paizo's part to set up the reporting forms and ensuring the scenario reporting instructions match up. My first wish would of course be that Paizo could commit to hiring the resources needed to do so.

If it is not codified, then the GM can use best judgement on behalf of play and players.

If it IS codified, then a table missing a very close roll will be exceptionally upset should they either see it after the fact (say, when prepping to GM the scenario OR hearing about it from other players/GMs).

It would be additional salt in the wound if it was say, a diplomatic scenario that was not advertised as such, and the characters brought a balanced but not Diplomancer team...

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I'll throw this out here anyway...

Please refine how resources are tracked!

It is absolutely pointless and a major pain-in-the-arse to track virtually every little item on a separate sheet. In all the time I've played PFS, no one has looked at any one of the 16 sheets I've dutifully kept up to date. Yes, that might mean I've not been thoroughly audited and from what I understand, such audits are very rare. Beyond that, if a player wants to cheat...they're going to cheat. It's a game and most people understand that.

Please do NOT force players to mindlessly track mundane and cheap magic items. Maybe raise the bar to 1,000 GP or something else.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet.

If you are revisiting the format. Please make a second format for boon chronicles that does not include fame/gold/experience. It is a minor cosmetic item but something to add to the list.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein-Main aka GreyYeti

Prethen wrote:

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I'll throw this out here anyway...

Please refine how resources are tracked!

It is absolutely pointless and a major pain-in-the-arse to track virtually every little item on a separate sheet. In all the time I've played PFS, no one has looked at any one of the 16 sheets I've dutifully kept up to date. Yes, that might mean I've not been thoroughly audited and from what I understand, such audits are very rare. Beyond that, if a player wants to cheat...they're going to cheat. It's a game and most people understand that.

Please do NOT force players to mindlessly track mundane and cheap magic items. Maybe raise the bar to 1,000 GP or something else.

If you don't track them, how do you know what items you have?

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Nils Janson wrote:


If you don't track them, how do you know what items you have?

The problem with the ITS is it wants to track how many was bought when , how many was used when. As a player i want to know how many i have left. It takes up quite a bit of space.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

2 people marked this as a favorite.

ITS is pretty yucky when it gets to buying multiples. Say I buy three alchemist fire, and use them in different scenarios. Noting that down cleanly is not actually as simple as it ought to be.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

I have characters with a fair number of ITS sheets and some specialized ones for limited consumables.
To be honest I tend to be rather bad my notes, and being forced to use the ITS really helps me... something I learned the hard way in my Dead Suns AP^^

Silver Crusade

I have to admit that I neglected to think about those who do not use Hero Lab. Hero Lab has become somewhat ubiquitous in its use around me and tracking items is a breeze. However, I still stand by what I've requested even if you manually track items.

Yes, you obviously need to track what you buy/sell/use. However, do that however and in whatever format you see as convenient.

I don't like the idea that one day someone would actually want to literally audit every 25GP+ item I've every bought/sold/used and possibly have to figure out how things total to what my sheet says. That would be mind-boggling and a major waste of time.

I'm very meticulous about recording everything I do with my inventory. I believe in playing fair; those are the rules.

Hero Lab actually tracks all of your transactions historically as well. Again, I would hope no one would want to sit there and due a thorough audit.

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Prethen wrote:
I don't like the idea that one day someone would actually want to literally audit every 25GP+ item I've every bought/sold/used and possibly have to figure out how things total to what my sheet says. That would be mind-boggling and a major waste of time.

I am in about 95% agreement with you. (Well, 100% on it "would be mind-boggling" and 95% on "major waste of time.") Because most players are like you:

Prethen wrote:
I'm very meticulous about recording everything I do with my inventory. I believe in playing fair; those are the rules.

But not all.

I've had players who simply don't track their stuff. Usually because they don't understand why tracking inventory is important, but occasionally because they don't believe they should have to spend their time writing it down, regardless of "what the rules say."

I don't audit ITS ahead of time. I only find this out when players pull out an odd but absolutely perfect item for a situation. Or try to cast a spell with an expensive material component. That's when I ask to see their inventory sheet. On at least half a dozen occasions the player has responded "I'll just deduct the cost from the gold I have on hand." That's not how inventory works. (In fact, doing that is a fairly significant ability of the Pathfinder Chronicler prestige class.) So I say "no."

The point is that having an "official" tracking sheet is a way of reinforcing that tracking is required. I don't care if they are using another method (a sheet of ruled paper works fine), so the official sheet can just say "you must use this sheet or have an equivalent inventory list available for the GM to review."

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

I'd like to come out and request that we eliminate the 25 gp exemption. The goal of the ITS seems to be to allow for auditing. The current ITS sheets are enough paperwork to be a pain in the backside to players, but the existence of the exemption means that you can't actually just use the ITS for auditing. That makes audits hard and generally not worth it at all. Which means that the only people who get audited are the worst of the problem children, and I'm not 100% sure that's a good thing.

If we're going to go through the rigmarole of doing ITS sheets, I would strongly request that there not be an exemption. Just put everything on there.

Of course, people seem to be trying to save labor by using their ITS sheets as inventory sheets. That seems insane to me, but trying to use the same display for two incompatible purposes might explain why the ITS sheets are so bad for audits.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

5 people marked this as a favorite.

I get much tidier results with a spreadsheet than I ever managed to get with the ITS.

5/5

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I get much tidier results with a spreadsheet than I ever managed to get with the ITS.

Exactly this. I don't use the ITS in the Guide, I keep a google sheet for each of my characters instead. It is much clearer and simpler.

Dark Archive 5/5 Venture-Agent, Ohio—Columbus aka Cirithiel

andreww wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I get much tidier results with a spreadsheet than I ever managed to get with the ITS.
Exactly this. I don't use the ITS in the Guide, I keep a google sheet for each of my characters instead. It is much clearer and simpler.

Agreed. I also have a google sheet for each character.

A little formula wizardry and it automatically sums up the purchases I make and items I sell by chronicle number. I added a column to track gold received on each chronicle and voila!, I have a running total of my current gold. I just need to copy the numbers to the chronicle sheet and the end of the session.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

Janice Piette wrote:
andreww wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I get much tidier results with a spreadsheet than I ever managed to get with the ITS.
Exactly this. I don't use the ITS in the Guide, I keep a google sheet for each of my characters instead. It is much clearer and simpler.

Agreed. I also have a google sheet for each character.

A little formula wizardry and it automatically sums up the purchases I make and items I sell by chronicle number. I added a column to track gold received on each chronicle and voila!, I have a running total of my current gold. I just need to copy the numbers to the chronicle sheet and the end of the session.

Likewise, I use a Google Sheets ledger too. One sheet for each character. It really made PFS life a lot simpler.

4/5 Venture-Agent, Minnesota—St. Louis Park aka BretI

I would like some thought given to keeping electronic copies of chronicles.

Right now a large number of chronicles have check boxes for when you do something. If you are using a scanned PDF of the chronicle, that isn't really convenient. You may not be able to check off the box.

Perhaps allow the check marks on the ITS? Those doing ITS via spreadsheet provide a way to indicate it. Those doing it with paper can have some checkboxes for boons.

The other option would be a mess: note when a limited use boon is used. This requires that the GM do something special on that chronicle.

Spend some time looking at ways to make it quicker to fill out a chronicle.

Please allow us as GMs to just note what was earned on a chronicle. The player tracks spending and is responsible for the totals.

Minimize duplication of data. Duplicate data seldom matches.

Go to a Starfinder style Day Job. Money earned is a multiple of the roll. Much easier and faster to deal with.

If you have something that 'must be chosen', make it a requirement that the choice be made before the next time you play the character and to have the next GM initial the choice. That or go total honor system.

Scarab Sages 5/5 Venture-Captain, Netherlands aka Woran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I thought we could already use any ITS we want, as long as we use *a* ITS

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Tineke Bolleman wrote:
I thought we could already use any ITS we want, as long as we use *a* ITS

Any ITS that tracks at least everything the official ITS tracks, yeah. But it would still be nice to improve the "standard" product.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Bret Indrelee wrote:

I would like some thought given to keeping electronic copies of chronicles.

Right now a large number of chronicles have check boxes for when you do something. If you are using a scanned PDF of the chronicle, that isn't really convenient. You may not be able to check off the box.

Perhaps allow the check marks on the ITS? Those doing ITS via spreadsheet provide a way to indicate it. Those doing it with paper can have some checkboxes for boons.

The other option would be a mess: note when a limited use boon is used. This requires that the GM do something special on that chronicle.

Spend some time looking at ways to make it quicker to fill out a chronicle.

Please allow us as GMs to just note what was earned on a chronicle. The player tracks spending and is responsible for the totals.

Minimize duplication of data. Duplicate data seldom matches.

Go to a Starfinder style Day Job. Money earned is a multiple of the roll. Much easier and faster to deal with.

If you have something that 'must be chosen', make it a requirement that the choice be made before the next time you play the character and to have the next GM initial the choice. That or go total honor system.

I tend to write it on the current online chronicle if a player has used his limited "summon dire weasel army" boon. That way it can't get lost and should be noticed. Of course, if you store your digital chronicle sheets as .pdf you can make checkmarks or make notes as well.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Tineke Bolleman wrote:
I thought we could already use any ITS we want, as long as we use *a* ITS
Any ITS that tracks at least everything the official ITS tracks, yeah. But it would still be nice to improve the "standard" product.

Yes, but it can be problematic for auditing where you have very limited time and someone’s version of the ITS form may not be intuitive.

4/5 Venture-Agent, Minnesota—St. Louis Park aka BretI

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Tineke Bolleman wrote:
I thought we could already use any ITS we want, as long as we use *a* ITS
Any ITS that tracks at least everything the official ITS tracks, yeah. But it would still be nice to improve the "standard" product.
Yes, but it can be problematic for auditing where you have very limited time and someone’s version of the ITS form may not be intuitive.

To my knowledge, we don't have anything that specifies exactly what is required on an ITS beyond purchases. We currently have an example, but few requirements beyond needing to list everything that costs 25 gp or more.

5/5

Janice Piette wrote:
andreww wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I get much tidier results with a spreadsheet than I ever managed to get with the ITS.
Exactly this. I don't use the ITS in the Guide, I keep a google sheet for each of my characters instead. It is much clearer and simpler.

Agreed. I also have a google sheet for each character.

A little formula wizardry and it automatically sums up the purchases I make and items I sell by chronicle number. I added a column to track gold received on each chronicle and voila!, I have a running total of my current gold. I just need to copy the numbers to the chronicle sheet and the end of the session.

This is exactly what I do. Mine tracks xp, gold, prestige and purchases. I should probably add a column to keep a track of total fame.

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Bob Jonquet wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Tineke Bolleman wrote:
I thought we could already use any ITS we want, as long as we use *a* ITS
Any ITS that tracks at least everything the official ITS tracks, yeah. But it would still be nice to improve the "standard" product.
Yes, but it can be problematic for auditing where you have very limited time and someone’s version of the ITS form may not be intuitive.

Given the current ITS is awful for auditing purposes I doubt any individual version is likely to be worse.

And I say this as one of the few people who does actually conduct audits.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

2 people marked this as a favorite.

The ITS form would be better simply from the standpoint of consistency. The auditor would know what they are looking at and how it is formatted. I’ve seen some tracking systems that requires a degree in engineering or theoretical matamatics to understand without a lengthy tutorial. I’m not saying there aren’t better methods, but just like the variety of character sheets, having non-standard ITS forms makes audits more difficult

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Bob Jonquet wrote:
I’ve seen some tracking systems that requires a degree in engineering or theoretical matamatics to understand without a lengthy tutorial.

I'm an engineer, but it doesn't help. Sure, I can eventually figure out what's going on but it doesn't speed up the audit process. As Bob says, standardization helps you know where to look.

So why isn't there one form that everyone loves? People have different priorities on what's "important." You arrange your tracking forms to make your "important" data easy to see. But your "important" is not necessarily my "important."

This happens all the time at work:
When I'm collecting data for a project I may care the most about transmission loss and total power consumption, so on my sheet that's the data that is easiest to find and collated by default. Another engineer is looking at thermal load, so she arranges the data in a different way on her own version of the sheet. Meanwhile the logistics office can't figure out where the size and weight figures are (they're in there, just not front and center). And once the finance types start looking at it they basically throw their hands up and come back to me saying "we see some unit costs, but we can't figure out how it all adds up to that final number!"

When I need to distribute a data sheet widely (when the circle of people gets too big for me to explain things individually) I usually spend more time on layout of the sheet for distribution than I did on collecting and collating all the data for my own use.

One thing I thought would be pretty nifty is if Paizo could organize some kind of "Inventory Tracking Sheet Design Contest." Anyone can submit their own sheet. Campaign Leadership combs through and picks out the best and we vote on them. The winner gets a pass through professional layout and design – just to make the graphics sharper – and released as the new Official ITS.

The Exchange 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Charlotte aka eddv

Bob Jonquet wrote:
The ITS form would be better simply from the standpoint of consistency. The auditor would know what they are looking at and how it is formatted. I’ve seen some tracking systems that requires a degree in engineering or theoretical matamatics to understand without a lengthy tutorial. I’m not saying there aren’t better methods, but just like the variety of character sheets, having non-standard ITS forms makes audits more difficult

I agree with all of this, which is why I think its of paramount importance to have a new, better Inventory tracking system and given the rapid growth in online play it should really be digital by default or at least effortlessly digital compatible.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Douglas Edwards wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:
The ITS form would be better simply from the standpoint of consistency. The auditor would know what they are looking at and how it is formatted. I’ve seen some tracking systems that requires a degree in engineering or theoretical matamatics to understand without a lengthy tutorial. I’m not saying there aren’t better methods, but just like the variety of character sheets, having non-standard ITS forms makes audits more difficult
I agree with all of this, which is why I think its of paramount importance to have a new, better Inventory tracking system and given the rapid growth in online play it should really be digital by default or at least effortlessly digital compatible.
Kevin Willis wrote:
One thing I thought would be pretty nifty is if Paizo could organize some kind of "Inventory Tracking Sheet Design Contest." Anyone can submit their own sheet. Campaign Leadership combs through and picks out the best and we vote on them. The winner gets a pass through professional layout and design – just to make the graphics sharper – and released as the new Official ITS.

This sounds like a great idea!

Sure, it's a little geeky project, but if we make bookkeeping easier, more people will do it, and do it right.

5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Magabeus

If we go the same way as SFS with factions the faction field at the top of the sheet can be removed. That gives the other fields a bit more room and I do not have to abbreviate Liberty's Edge to LE anymore.

Grand Lodge 4/5

I want to apologize before hand. I have a tendency to ramble when I talk, and that has a tendency to migrate to my writing. I'll try to keep it somewhat brief, and in my defense, what I have written below has already been edited for length. :D

With our current system, how I understand that it's supposed to be done is that the GM hands the PC a blank chronicle sheet. They fill out pertinent information (player name, PC name, initial xp initial fame, etc.) and makes valid choices (if applicable) on the chronicle sheet (ie you have a choice between x boon and y boon. choose one, cross out the other). The gm then initials, signs, dot's I's, crosses t's, etc, and hands it back to the player. I understand that time constraints don't always make this system work out, but I understand the need for it.

I do alot (if not most) of my GMing online. Jessie has brought it up a couple of times that all online GM's are supposed to be completely filling out chronicle sheets for their players. Since you can't really expect them to fill out a .pdf or .jpg file and send it back to you, us online GM's are expected to just fill everything out then initial/sign. I see some GM's gather that information, and I see even fewer of those GM's actually do so. I've come to the feeling that I'm spoiling my players by doing so. I have some players that have strictly only played...well, they get lost and come to me for help when a gm sends them a blank chronicle sheet with only the experience, prestige, and gold earned.

What I would like to see about chronicle sheets going forward is that there is a codified way of doing chronicle sheets that sets them apart from 1e, to sort of force GM's into learning how to do it correctly, however correctly is done in 2e's system. I do enjoy having space to write notes down on the chronicle sheet itself, especially if they're something that isn't a boon or isn't mechanical, but was somehow earned in the scenario/module and would be awesome to carry forward. I gm'd one PC who drank an entire church of cayden cailean under the table , and played in another game where due to in game reasons, a fellow pc came into the scenario a pale skinned halfling and came out essentially a smurf. Permanently. :D

As awesome as the loot tables for Halflight Path and Tome of Righteous Repose are at first glance, most of them are fluffy. I do appreciate the need for one consolidated chronicle sheet, and even rewarded for it on halflight path, one could think it would be better served for each of the different ...lets call them "branches" for each of those games would have been better served having their own chronicle sheet, and having more space on the chronicle, again for notes, detailed purchases, etc.

My biggest request though, is that however it is decided to move forward with chronicle sheets into 2nd edition, that the rules for filling them out for online play are explicitly laid out in the roleplaying guild guide, even if it's no more than "for online play, the rules for filling out a chronicle sheet are exactly the same as for an in person game" or something along those lines.

5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Magabeus

Blind prophet,

The rules for online play are exactly the same as land out in the guide. Just as there is no need for specifying that the rules for USA regions follow the rules as laid out in the guide there is no need to specify that online has to follow the guide.

To specify that for online games filling in chronicles follows the rules as laid out in the guide implies that there are other rules that are different for online play as compared to face to face games, which is not correct.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵ RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 aka GreySector

Gerard van Konijnenburg wrote:
If we go the same way as SFS with factions the faction field at the top of the sheet can be removed. That gives the other fields a bit more room and I do not have to abbreviate Liberty's Edge to LE anymore.

I've never had to abbreviate a faction, and I'll admit to being slightly annoyed at people who do.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Michael Eshleman wrote:
Gerard van Konijnenburg wrote:
If we go the same way as SFS with factions the faction field at the top of the sheet can be removed. That gives the other fields a bit more room and I do not have to abbreviate Liberty's Edge to LE anymore.
I've never had to abbreviate a faction, and I'll admit to being slightly annoyed at people who do.

I think I might be jealous of your insanely tiny handwriting!

Grand Lodge 4/5

@Gerard, but they ever so slightly are different for online play.

Roleplaying Guild Guide said wrote:

Step 1: Hand each of the players a blank Chronicle sheet and ask them to fll out the sections marked A–G, J, K, and P (Character Chronicle #, Advancement Track,

Player Name, Starting XP, Initial Fame, Initial Prestige, Starting GP, etc.). When they’re done entering this information from their past Chronicle sheets, have them return the documents to you.

That's how it's supposed to be done for all chronicle sheets, according to the roleplaying guild guide. However, since it's a little hard for online players to be handed a chronicle sheet for them to fill out and then turn around and give back to a gm, it's expected for a GM to fill out everything themselves. They're supposed to get *all* of the pertinent information before the game, completely fill out the chronicle sheet, and then give it to the player. It's also been said numerous times by our online leadership that it's how it's supposed to be done. The problem being that since this turns a 3 minute exercise into a half hour chore, most GM's online just fill out the xp, prestige, and gold gained boxes, initial/sign, and fill out the gm info boxes at the bottom. Every player then gets a copy of this incomplete chronicle sheet.

That's the reason why I would like that little addendum to the roleplaying guild guide going into 2e. Heck, I'd like it in the roleplaying guild guide v10. Even if the line only said "The chronicle sheets must be filled out in this way, regardless if it's in person, online, etc."

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Blind Prophet wrote:

@Gerard, but they ever so slightly are different for online play.

Roleplaying Guild Guide said wrote:

Step 1: Hand each of the players a blank Chronicle sheet and ask them to fll out the sections marked A–G, J, K, and P (Character Chronicle #, Advancement Track,

Player Name, Starting XP, Initial Fame, Initial Prestige, Starting GP, etc.). When they’re done entering this information from their past Chronicle sheets, have them return the documents to you.

I can count the number of times this has been done for me in a face to face game on the fingers of no hands and I don't believe my experience is unusual. That includes games run by all levels of PFS leadership.

Quote:
That's how it's supposed to be done for all chronicle sheets, according to the roleplaying guild guide. However, since it's a little hard for online players to be handed a chronicle sheet for them to fill out and then turn around and give back to a gm, it's expected for a GM to fill out everything themselves. They're supposed to get *all* of the pertinent information before the game, completely fill out the chronicle sheet, and then give it to the player. It's also been said numerous times by our online leadership that it's how it's supposed to be done. The problem being that since this turns a 3 minute exercise into a half hour chore, most GM's online just fill out the xp, prestige, and gold gained boxes, initial/sign, and fill out the gm info boxes at the bottom. Every player then gets a copy of this incomplete chronicle sheet.

This may be how it is supposed to be done but it isn't how it is actually done in the vast majority of cases. I am one of the few online GM's who at least fills in peoples starting values but that is very much the exception in my experience.

I would far rather the guide was updated to reflect what actually happens in practice rather than continuing with the fiction that what the guide says we do actually happens.

Dark Archive 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South aka schattenstern

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I agree that the current way of filling out chronicles is far from everything I see in reality. I would agree to make it align more with reality because the current method is far too long and tedious.

This applies to online and offline games as well.

What would be wrong with:

"Give out the chroniclesheets with all GM-only areas filled out and cross of the boons/items the player did not qualify for"

So there is no back and forth and this is how I see it done at most games.

5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Online aka Magabeus

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I should have included that in my experience only a few GMs and players follow the rules as set out in the guide for filling in chronicles. That is both for online and offline and includes myself.

What Alexander suggests is what is currently done in a lot of cases, although it should be added that the PFS ID and character number are also to be filled in so the chronicle is tied to a certain PC.

Grand Lodge 4/5

I do like the idea of what's supposed to happen with chronicle sheets as laid out currently in the roleplaying guild guide. I do it for all of my players (whether they're in my static group or not), and I make sure to give myself enough time to get chronicle sheets done, whether I get player approval to do it the next morning over coffee, or immediately in the case of conventions. The fact that I do them ensures that they get done correctly. You'd be surprised at how many players i've seen that are horrible at math, which leads to incorrect chronicle sheets, which leads to audits. I'd rather do the extra time to do chronicle sheets properly than have to do a full audit right before game time. I'm also glad that roll20 (the site we play at) can add numbers to dice and give the answer for you. Yes, that bad.

With that in mind, if the language on chronicle sheets (and dealing with them) is changed going forward into 2e, even if it's just as simple of a change of "the gm's only fill out what's in the gm boxes", I would *love* a heads up, so that I can start preparing my static group for that eventuality.

Perhaps another overhaul to the reporting end of the website is in order. If we went full digital (or perhaps half digital with this being a backup), then players could print chronicle sheets directly from the paizo website, thus eliminating the (albeit minor) problem of lost chronicle sheets. This allows the gm to input into the system how much each experience each player earned, how much prestige was gained, and how much gold was given out, with perhaps a checkbox if the player received out of tier.

I believe there has to be a status we can reach that's just as beneficial for the players as it is for the gm's, regardless of whether it's in person or online; at home, a store, or a convention.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I would by far prefer to see what seems to be, by far, the most common method (GM fills out required fields, hands to player, player figures out purchases and math later) become the accepted standard in the guide. I can't imagine trying to wrangle 5-hour scenarios run in 4-hour blocks by inexperienced GMs in 3 hours so they all have time to fill things out.

I'm also in favor of giving players time to thoughtfully consider character purchases.

This isn't the first time the request has been made, however. So we'll see whether it's accepted or not.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It would be nice if the Chronicle was very explicit in which steps happen in which order, and which ones are simultaneous and which ones come one after the other. It would be nice if you could for example fill in all the fields in clockwise order, with no backtracking.

Consider: in which order do you gain XP and do Downtime? If you gain Downtime, then XP, then that means you roll day jobs with your old stats which you already have (faster at table admin). But it also means that any retraining you do after gaining a level will happen after next session.

We do have rules right now in which order to fill in a chronicle, but is that an order that's (ostensibly) convenient for bookkeeping, or really the order in which things become available?

I would also like a design in which there's less back and forth between GM and player required. Either the player submits all his data first, or the GM; and then the other and it's done. No back and forth and back and forth. Any protocol that relies on too much back and forth is unlikely to be really used in practice.

It might also be a good idea to put a Downtime field on the chronicle.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Blind Prophet wrote:
What I would like to see about chronicle sheets going forward is that there is a codified way of doing chronicle sheets that sets them apart from 1e, to sort of force GM's into learning how to do it correctly, however correctly is done in 2e's system.

You can codify all you want

You can complain all you want.

you have a voluntary association of people and that limits how annoying you can make the paperwork before people don't comply, or just start avoiding the activity all together because of the paperwork.

IRL the standard practice is to just fill out the xp PP and circle the gold and hand it to the player. Online tends to have a bit more than that but certainly not the back and forth the guide tells you to, its not practical.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Blind Prophet wrote:
What I would like to see about chronicle sheets going forward is that there is a codified way of doing chronicle sheets that sets them apart from 1e, to sort of force GM's into learning how to do it correctly, however correctly is done in 2e's system.

You can codify all you want

You can complain all you want.

you have a voluntary association of people and that limits how annoying you can make the paperwork before people don't comply, or just start avoiding the activity all together because of the paperwork.

IRL the standard practice is to just fill out the xp PP and circle the gold and hand it to the player. Online tends to have a bit more than that but certainly not the back and forth the guide tells you to, its not practical.

I don't want to speak for Blind Prophet, but the impression I've gotten is simply that they'd prefer to have everyone following the same procedure. They just happen to be coming from a perspective of following the procedure as written in the guide, which isn't a perspective very many PFS players have. It didn't sound like a call to arms to me so much as a plea for consistency, and I think we can get behind that even if we don't share the experience of actually following the chronicle sheet instructions to the letter.

3/5

4 people marked this as a favorite.

If I were to pretend that chronicle sheets do not exist and were tasked with building one from the ground up would consider the following information to be neccessary:

-Name of the scenario/module/adventure;
-Name and PFS # of the character that completed the above;
-What was earned for completing the above (gold, XP, prestige, boons & purchasable items.
-Date completed, name & PFS # of GM

Everything else (items purchased, total gold, total XP, total prestige, fame, etc) can be kept track of by the player on character and inventory tracking sheets.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Alex Wreschnig wrote:
I would by far prefer to see what seems to be, by far, the most common method (GM fills out required fields, hands to player, player figures out purchases and math later) become the accepted standard in the guide.

I’m in favor of a player doing their purchases during down time, but my preference would be that in order to receive a chronicle, the player must be able to complete the starting info on the chronicle (XP, Fame/PP, gold) and then the GM adds the earned rewards. Failure to do that means no chronicle until the character is up to date. If we followed that procedure at every game, it would rarely if ever happen that a character’s records would not be up to date. IMO, the reason why soo many character records are incomplete, out of date, etc is because we have allowed excuses like limited time, lack of interest, laziness, whatever to become the default approach. There are players who have records that have never been filled out at all. I’m just as guilty as anyone else. The issue isn’t more/clearer rules, it’s enforcement of the ones we have.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Alex Wreschnig wrote:
I would by far prefer to see what seems to be, by far, the most common method (GM fills out required fields, hands to player, player figures out purchases and math later) become the accepted standard in the guide.
I’m in favor of a player doing their purchases during down time, but my preference would be that in order to receive a chronicle, the player must be able to complete the starting info on the chronicle (XP, Fame/PP, gold) and then the GM adds the earned rewards.

That won't always work in the PFS1 or SFS setup, because a player using a pregen, or a GM in an equivalent situation for applying credit, won't yet know the starting values when the chronicle will be applied at a future date, nor, for the same reason, the sequential chronicle number.

How I've seen it work locally, face to face:

  • GM hands out blank chronicles
  • GM verbally tells players how much XP, PP, gold and what boons to record (with individual variations such as out of subtier gold) and the event code, with more complete help for anyone new
  • Each player rolls a day job check or other downtime activities and works out the result (with whoever has a copy of the table)
  • Each player fills in their name, character name, PFS number, faction and the above values
  • GM revises anything necessary, initials boxes and signs the chronicle
  • Game ends, players do calculations later
  • Technically, I should add: Any purchases go on the next chronicle sheet at the start of the next session, though I couldn't say we're doing that consistently, or at all except by individual players' choice.

This means the chronicle sheet only passes from GM to player and back once, barring any corrections or similar discussions.

5/5 Venture-Captain, New Hampshire aka D_GENNEXT

I' m not liking the idea of having to generate a chronicle sheet from the ground up every session based on how the table did. It's not practical. You're expecting a GM to either be able to bring some form of computer to generate the sheet AND a means to print it OR to hand-write everything onto the sheet.
IF we're going to continue to use chronicle sheets (and I see no reason not to), the current way they're done is fine and a lot less time consuming. I would like to see a return of the items bought sold on the actual sheets like the Season 3 sheets had; I miss that.


I am the ‘journal keeper’ at most of the PFS tables I’ve played. I’d like to see a hand-out sheet with the mission briefing, so I could write the names and locations with the correct spelling instead of my best guess. The hand-out should also have a write up of any clues, riddles, or other information we’ll need to complete the mission. I also like Neriathale’s idea of having more background information on the Chronicle sheet.

I’d like to see more ‘universal’ boons, such as the +1 to Fort saves vs. Poison and Disease that Fabian Stretton mentioned. I’d also like to see ‘social’ boons have more uses. For example, in #8-99 - Solstice Scar A, you can get the Belkzen Veteran boon. This is pretty much useless, as you only get Orc Ferocity for 1 round one time ever. Why not have that available for more uses – maybe even as many as 10 or 20 rounds over a character’s career? From the same boon, why does learning Orc cost 2 prestige? I like the idea Swiftbrook had of chronicle sheets offering a choice of loot options so that every character can pick something useful to them.

Kevin Willis wrote:


One thing I thought would be pretty nifty is if Paizo could organize some kind of "Inventory Tracking Sheet Design Contest." Anyone can submit their own sheet. Campaign Leadership combs through and picks out the best and we vote on them. The winner gets a pass through professional layout and design – just to make the graphics sharper – and released as the new Official ITS.

^^THIS^^

Dark Archive 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Minnesota—Minneapolis aka Silbeg

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Neriathale wrote:
I would like to see a couple of lines added to the chronicle that say "This took place in Katapesh, the VC who sent you was Drandle Dreng and the mission involved locating the missing daughter of a grippli diplomat". Something more than the title of the adventure as a memory jogger. when trying to think which character it was that had a specific experience.

I like this idea.

Heck, it could even be as simple as adding the adventure blurb (from the product page) to the top of the chronicle.

As for space to log/joiurnal on... I have taken to hsing the back of the previous chronicle to take notes on. Now, I need to a better job of note taking, but it has helped me more than once in and adventure, though I really haven’t used it much to check back to remember a scenario (though I have done it)

3/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd like to see 4 things for a new chronicle sheet:
Discounted items: The items don't need to be 50% off, but some type of discount for finding an item on a chronicle sheet vs being able to buy it normally.
Abilities from weapons can be purchased for any weapon: If I take an exotic weapon prof for something, I am guaranteed to be able to purchase a special version of that weapon from a chronicle sheet. Outside of a longsword, shortsword, or rare scimitar, I never find a different weapon. If you could combine this ability with the discounted one, that would now REALLY be a reason to look at what we got.
Reduce the cost of purchasing items by spending PP: Outside of vanities, and keeping PP available due to death, there is no point to PP. I'd love to see something like "Spend 3PP to gain a 20% discount on one item"
No digital only chronicles: Yes, it's a bit annoying carrying all the papers around, you can't punish people who don't have wifi enabled devices or the place doesn't have wifi.

Inventory Tracking Sheets: I've never seen one looked at by a GM. In fact, I asked a few GMs how they handle tracking, and they said "So long as it sounds reasonable for the character to have purchased, then I just trust the player."

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

1 person marked this as a favorite.
shalandar wrote:
Reduce the cost of purchasing items by spending PP: Outside of vanities, and keeping PP available due to death, there is no point to PP. I'd love to see something like "Spend 3PP to gain a 20% discount on one item"

Well there's using 2PP on a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, which is used quite a lot. And although a lot of people lose sight of this, you can also use it to buy other useful things:


  • An oil of Daylight.
  • Potion of Remove Blindness.
  • A five-uses scroll of Lesser Restoration or Suppress Charms & Compulsions.
  • A potion of Fly.
  • A wand of some other level 1 spell, to give low-level casters something useful to do even in long scenarios. I'm fond of Vanish myself, especially because casting from a wand doesn't provoke. Making teammates temporarily invisible is a very good buff: it allows people to sneak attack, make attacks against flat-footed AC (alchemists, gunslingers!) and avoid attacks of opportunity for getting up from the floor, casting spells, ranged attacks (cornered kineticist!), or combat maneuvers without the proper feat.

Basically, that one line in the table of options is probably responsible for 80% of PP really spent (not held in reserve for Raise Dead).

I think fearfully saving up PP for Raise Dead may be a mistake compared to investing in items such as these which can prevent death from happening.

By using PP as a second budget with a purchase limit, you let people buy consumable items without losing speed on buying permanent upgrades to armor and weapons. It's a psychological crutch that helps people who otherwise have trouble deciding when to spend on things they need Now vs. things they need to save up for.

---

That said, I like the setup of Starfinder's PP system which has a lot more different things to choose from.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

2 people marked this as a favorite.
shalandar wrote:

I'd like to see 4 things for a new chronicle sheet:

Discounted items: The items don't need to be 50% off, but some type of discount for finding an item on a chronicle sheet vs being able to buy it normally.

I like this. Currently, finding most things is just a very rapidly fading advantage, if any. 10-20% discount on featured items should be nice.

The trick is balancing it with WBL; should chronicle gold be reduced? Preferably not - what if you already have that item? What if you don't want the item? What if the item is so ubiquitous on chronicles that you already got the discount on another one? It could be easy to overcompensate the gold reduction.

All in all, a small discount (10%) is probably best. Still nice to have, but not likely to unhinge WBL so not needing any countermeasures.

shalandar wrote:
Abilities from weapons can be purchased for any weapon: If I take an exotic weapon prof for something, I am guaranteed to be able to purchase a special version of that weapon from a chronicle sheet. Outside of a longsword, shortsword, or rare scimitar, I never find a different weapon. If you could combine this ability with the discounted one, that would now REALLY be a reason to look at what we got.

On the one hand, there's something neat about magic weapons that feel specific. The image of a warrior with a lot of different weapons for different problems appeals to me. I like the way Starfinder doesn't lock you down to a narrow weapon proficiency anymore; weapon proficiency, focus and specialization applies to whole weapon groups at once. A warrior that understands one kind of sword understands all of them. So having a golfbag isn't such a problem.

On the other hand, making this work, really requires that players are not pushed too much by the game design into needing one specific weapon to keep their build running (Dervish Dance anyone?). If the game design pushes people to do that, then I'd rather have some crafter service to transfer enchantments to another weapon for a reasonable fee. Low enough (compared to the discount) that finding a specific enchantment is still cause for celebration.

shalandar wrote:
No digital only chronicles: Yes, it's a bit annoying carrying all the papers around, you can't punish people who don't have wifi enabled devices or the place doesn't have wifi.

I would like chronicles easily digitized, and easily printable from a digital one, so that everyone can do what they like best.

shalandar wrote:
Inventory Tracking Sheets: I've never seen one looked at by a GM. In fact, I asked a few GMs how they handle tracking, and they said "So long as it sounds reasonable for the character to have purchased, then I just trust the player."

I think it needs redesign to be so convenient to use that people will be happy to do so.

101 to 150 of 309 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society Playtest / PFS-Chronicle Sheets All Messageboards