Paizo.com Update Scheduled for 2-27-2018


Website Feedback

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Papa-DRB wrote:
Parody wrote:
For those of you using Stylish or otherwise able to use user styles, I shared a Forum Improvement style (this is a link) a while ago because I found the links hard to see in the forums. It still works on the new site.
How do I install this. On the style page it has a button to install via stylish, but that just installs stylish (which I already have).

Are you using Firefox 57+? There's apparently a bug in Stylish for Firefox (link) that prevents you from installing styles at this time. :(

Stylish should work fine in the Chromish browsers; in FF you could use a different user style extension or roll back to an earlier version of Stylish if you don't want to wait for a fix.


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thistledown wrote:
Back on firefox. Something I noticed when taking the screenshot is that in a smaller window it's not so bad. Played around with it a bit. My screen is set up for 1920x1080. Taking the window width up to about 1300 works properly on re-sizing the text columns. After 1300 is where it just starts adding more margin to both sides.

Yeah, it's definitely a width issue. There's a limit somewhere in a stylesheet about how wide to stretch the table.

I almost never run a browser full screen, certainly not for a site like this, so I had no idea what people were talking about with "3 inch margins". :)

Web Production Manager

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Hey folks, the team is now in the office and we are documenting and planning triage for the issues mentioned here.

Because some of these issues are related to our stylesheets, they may see resolution fairly quickly. (Yes, I 100% agree the text is tiny and the links colors can trip you up, that's one of our top items!) We're also trying to resolve as many of our page data issues and try to set up additional redirects that got missed. Larger code related items will be part of our planned roll next week.

To help us keep track of what is a "problem" versus "I wish I had this", we ask that folks please make a new thread if your feedback involves something completely new.

Again, I cannot reiterate enough how huge of a project this has been to get this far. Maybe we'll do a blog about it once the dust has settled (especially to introduce some new faces who were total rockstars in helping make this happen). Thank you again for your patience!


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So, it looks like the old WebObjects content has been wrapped in a new Node.js wrapper - not just using REST endpoints from the WO server, but serving those pages under a new master site - is that part of the issue with the responsivity and styling? Also, I'm noticing a LOT of harcoded widths in the stylesheets.


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Chris Lambertz wrote:

Hey folks, the team is now in the office and we are documenting and planning triage for the issues mentioned here.

Because some of these issues are related to our stylesheets, they may see resolution fairly quickly. (Yes, I 100% agree the text is tiny and the links colors can trip you up, that's one of our top items!) We're also trying to resolve as many of our page data issues and try to set up additional redirects that got missed. Larger code related items will be part of our planned roll next week.

To help us keep track of what is a "problem" versus "I wish I had this", we ask that folks please make a new thread if your feedback involves something completely new.

Again, I cannot reiterate enough how huge of a project this has been to get this far. Maybe we'll do a blog about it once the dust has settled (especially to introduce some new faces who were total rockstars in helping make this happen). Thank you again for your patience!

Thanks for the update. Once you get 'My Campaigns' back, I'll have no major complaints!


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

[color=Green]Thank you for the continued effort and the feedback![/color]

Shadow Lodge

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New problem feedback - in my PM's, the previous / next buttons aren't working. Clicking one just gives the same PM. I also get strange lock-outs if I try to open more than one at a time (Through 'open in new tab'). And the BACK button doesn't work, so to read a different PM I have to go to a different header like Wishlists and then go back to the PM lists.


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Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Parody wrote:
Papa-DRB wrote:
Parody wrote:
For those of you using Stylish or otherwise able to use user styles, I shared a Forum Improvement style (this is a link) a while ago because I found the links hard to see in the forums. It still works on the new site.
How do I install this. On the style page it has a button to install via stylish, but that just installs stylish (which I already have).
Are you using Firefox 57+? There's apparently a bug in Stylish for Firefox (link) that prevents you from installing styles at this time.

Crud. Yep, using Firefox 58.x 64 bit. Thanks for the link to the problem. I'll keep it in mind.

-- david


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There seem to be some issues with the drop down menu (and the screen economy seems to be rather wasteful)

on the wish list I loved the side menues with everything written out rather than having to press the top menus, just makes me perform more actions before I get to the content I am interested in.

windows 10, chrome.


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The good thing: Once you find the overview of all the messageboards (like so), the navigation is not different from the old site.

I think a lot of people would appreciate that link put into the Community drop-down.

The downsides: The main page is pretty much interchangeable with any other corporate website. I know mobile devices are going to be king, but the whole drop-down shebang is unnecessarily clunky on desktop computers.

I am also disappointed about the third-party scripts loading with the site.

Grand Lodge Director of Technology

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DeathQuaker wrote:

Wow! While obviously there are wrinkles to smooth, I love the overall new feel quite a lot. I don't know if this is because of the update yet--might be just because not everyone's back online yet--but it feels like pages are consistently loading faster as well--woot on that alone. I like the colors and the font switch.

I do think the default font SIZE in the messageboard messages could be larger (or if there could be a way to bump it up)--it is fine for the menus and such.

I would like, personally, a quicker path/direct link to my profile than having to click on the empty head image and then go down to "my profile"(which yes, I can bookmark in the meantime). I tend to navigate a lot via my profile, both to get to my campaign tab (I prefer the look of it to the "my campaigns" tab with all the info in it) and to check on threads I posted in (rather than have to scan through for them). Some of this may require some changing in habits which is fine, but I'd like to be able to still get to my profile quicker.

I miss the sidebar to an extent--I actually don't miss the "noise" of the sidebar but I particularly miss the link to the PRD which is handy for PBP especially, and I miss the search being on the side rather than the top (but the latter may take some getting used to). I figure a link to the PRD may hopefully come back as adjustments change. (Interestingly I can still see the sidebar when I look at my profile, but I'm not sure if that will stay).

The front page looks GREAT--the simpler design is waaaaaay better. Thanks for all your hard work, folks!

Thanks for the feedback Death... We appreciate your support while we work through the adjustments needed for any new site. I will make a point in getting the PRD link implemented as soon as possible..

Cheers,
Dean

Grand Lodge Director of Technology

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Tinalles wrote:

Very glad to see this; a proper redesign has been desperately needed for quite some time!

As with any major rollout, there are undoubtedly bugs and quirks. I wish you the best of luck finding them, rolling high initiative, and squashing them before they can bite you.

Thanks for your feedback Tinalles... Very much appreciate your support and feedback...

Grand Lodge Director of Technology

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GM Mowque wrote:
None of the messageboard side links work on mobile. And the top Community drop down's don't work either. You literally can't get to the general messageboards on mobile.

We are aware of this issue and currently work on a fix... Should be resolved soon... Thanks for the feedback...

Dean


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okay, I have to say, the new boards really start to give me a headache. it might have to do with the tiny font size or the contrast, idk. but I can't browse the forum longer than 30 minutes without my head starting to hurt


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I wanted to say; I just got onto my phone and had the opportunity to peruse the boards on it and: it looks good! While the lack of color still hinders visuals distinction, for some reason, the font appearance seems completely different on a phone, and isn’t unpleasant.

Regardless of what ends up happening, I am grateful for all your hard work in keeping the site running as well as possible!

Grand Lodge Director of Technology

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Tacticslion wrote:

1) I can fully appreciate all the incredibly hard work and effort that has gone into making this new and vast change; it is appreciated

2) Is there any way to change the visual of the font, and differentiate color for the links instead of basic font? While I'm not great with change in general, the font is actively unpleasant to my sensibilities - it makes things harder to read and differentiate and feels harsher and less pleasant when I'm reading. The coloring and underlining issues make it more difficult for me to tell where I am and what I'm doing on individual pages or in various posts made by myself and others. I don't... I really don't like to complain, but my eyes have difficulty tracking things on the screen, and (for whatever reason) it's much more difficult to tell what the actual words are on the screen, now, than previously.

Some font script doesn't actually bother - the title of the thread down below, for example - but the actual font design and narrowness of the lettering (or, I guess "thinness" of the lettering? the words are not compact, but the individual letters don't stand out enough) is just difficult to parse. I find myself often blinking and looking away from the screen - anywhere but the screen - while typing.

As a related note to the visual issues, there's a similar lack of distinction (a kind of "faded" appearance) to many of the buttons and outlines - this may be something I get used to in time, however, for now, it's telling me that I'm not signed in and those things are not options, as if I were a guest or it was loading or something. This may just be a remnant of how my rather muddled brain interpreted visuals from the older design and may be a thing I just get used to, later.

3) I am so grateful and thankful for an active, hard-working staff, and I appreciate the gift that is your time, effort and energy, as well as feedback. Any problems may well be unique to myself, but, though I think I'll eventually get used to most of the changes (even if such things aren't my...

Tacticslion, Thank you so much for your feedback. We will absolutely look into this request as soon as possible. All I ask is you just give us a little time to tackle some other pressing changes that hinder performance.

Best Regards
Dean


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Absolutely. I believe in all of you, and am grateful for your continued work and persistence!


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Tacticslion wrote:
I wanted to say; I just got onto my phone and had the opportunity to peruse the boards on it and: it looks good! While the lack of color still hinders visuals distinction, for some reason, the font appearance seems completely different on a phone, and isn’t unpleasant.

Weird. On my (Android) phone, using both Firefox and Chrome set to download mobile sites, it looks just like the desktop site complete with tiny fonts and navigation you must zoom in on to have any chance to use.


Hmm. As an iPhone user with Safari, that may explain it. I empathize with your difficulties, though - it’s harsh going on my desktop!


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As a sliver of positive feedback for the webfolk... I am extremely near-sighted, so I'm reading the tiny messageboard text just fine. So that's a sample size of one with no eyestrain and no headaches. :)


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So, after about ten hours of exploring the website while at work, I can say that I'm more or less okay with the design.

1) I'm able to make my way to threads and make posts.

2) I was able to purchase a PDF and download it.

I'll wait and see what the next upgrade rollout has.


I don't have the time to read the whole thread. Let me just say, I don't like the interface. I have to try and remember where the threads I was following were, and hunt for them. I'll probably just abandon most of them - possibly the entire forum.


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GreenDragon1133 wrote:
I don't have the time to read the whole thread. Let me just say, I don't like the interface. I have to try and remember where the threads I was following were, and hunt for them. I'll probably just abandon most of them - possibly the entire forum.

This will take you to the top level of the forums. The Gamer Life section is missing and I believe they've acknowledged that as an issue they'll be fixing. Possibly the sidebar as well.

It's a bit of a rocky rollout and it's not quite clear yet what are actual bugs and what are intentional changes. I'd be surprised if a lot of the most common issues aren't cleared up in a couple days.

Scarab Sages

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To reiterate what many have said before. A point or two larger font, with a more pleasing, rounded style would be nice.

The titles of sub-categories (Organized Play landing page) are links. But they are not obviously links. I think buttons rather than different colors for the links would be nice.

Or perhaps yet another set of tabs. One tab should maybe be Documents.


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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

When I'm in the message boards (anywhere, so far as I've found, clicking on the "all messageboards" link at the bottom of the page takes me to the main (paizo.com) page.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Tinalles wrote:

Reading through all this, I kind of envy Paizo's tech staff at this moment. I'm a web guy for a living, and it is a constant struggle to get real, detailed feedback from our users! Our site doesn't have any forum or comment features built in, and our users would be unlikely to engage that way if there were (it's not that kind of site).

So, Paizo staff, count your mixed blessings: your users love you enough to tell you what they think!

We do appreciate it! Also, just because we're not replying to every post, don't think we're not reading them. We'll get a lot of this stuff adjusted in the coming week or so.


The new design feels a bit too "corporate" somehow. Maybe it would be better if the font size on community related posts such as forum links were raised a bit, advertising portions were smaller, the color scheme was a lighter blue, and the My Account button used your username and avatar.

That's just my opinion.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It's been an hour since my last previous post in this thread and I can no longer edit it. No big deal, just wondering if this one will be editable right after I post it.

Edit: yep. Guess I'll check back in half an hour or so.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Dots are there, they’re just tiny! Please bump up the size of our dots!

I can’t seem to find off-topic discussions anywhere. The entire subforum seems to have vanished.

As with everyone, font size and link colour need a do-over, but overall I quite like it. It’ll take a while to get used to the new layout, but the site looks great (the landing page is minimalistic, before it had way too many “things” to look at).

Kudos to everyone involved, I think this is a real positive step, and I’m looking forward to the kinks being ironed out.

Scarab Sages

I do not like the new visual style. Apparently merely expressing this was enough to get my previous post removed. I shall therefore not go into further detail.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ed Reppert wrote:

It's been an hour since my last previous post in this thread and I can no longer edit it. No big deal, just wondering if this one will be editable right after I post it.

Edit: yep. Guess I'll check back in half an hour or so.

That’s unchanged behaviour: there’s a 60 minute edit window, after which a post is locked in.

Grand Lodge Director of Technology

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Chemlak wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:

It's been an hour since my last previous post in this thread and I can no longer edit it. No big deal, just wondering if this one will be editable right after I post it.

Edit: yep. Guess I'll check back in half an hour or so.

That’s unchanged behaviour: there’s a 60 minute edit window, after which a post is locked in.

Thanks Chemlak...

Grand Lodge Director of Technology

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Chemlak wrote:

Dots are there, they’re just tiny! Please bump up the size of our dots!

I can’t seem to find off-topic discussions anywhere. The entire subforum seems to have vanished.

As with everyone, font size and link colour need a do-over, but overall I quite like it. It’ll take a while to get used to the new layout, but the site looks great (the landing page is minimalistic, before it had way too many “things” to look at).

Kudos to everyone involved, I think this is a real positive step, and I’m looking forward to the kinks being ironed out.

Thanks for the feedback Chemlak... The font size and color changes are due to hit primetime today as part of our first wave of adjustments...


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I haven't been able to access digital content (via My Account pull-down menu) since the new site rolled out. That's not a big deal for me, but if it's affecting other people it's likely to be.

I also just had a weird display thing - I wrote a three paragraph spoiler with a blank line between each of the paragraphs. It didn't space out paragraphs 1 and 2 but did put a blank line between 2 and 3.

Web Production Manager

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Hey all, we just restored our historic colors back into the site. We made some adjustments to sizing as well. Note that we are very aware that we have some kinks to work out, but temporarily, this should ease some of the legibility issues folks were having.

Additionally, we have our first batch of code fixes scheduled to roll out tomorrow morning. This should be fairly seamless, and we don't anticipate downtime.

Shadow Lodge

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Much better already - thank you!!!


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Definitely a major improvement. My eyes say thank you!


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Chris Lambertz wrote:
Hey all, we just restored our historic colors back into the site. We made some adjustments to sizing as well.

MUCH APPRECIATED!!! Many thanks for this. I can now read the thread without eye strain, both in size and color, and I can now tell if I've read a thread by it's lighter color. :)

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Looks great, looking forward to what the future brings.


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Augh, now the Forums dropdown extends so far to the right that the "Gamer Life" links are beyond the browser window (Firefox 58.0.2 [Quantum], for Win 10).

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

BIG LETTERS!


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Chris Lambertz wrote:
Hey all, we just restored our historic colors back into the site.

Huge improvement. Huge appreciation.

While the specific colours are something visitors can adjust to, the lack of distinction was a usability hindrance. Thank you for taking that into consideration. I've long been a vocal champion of usability over cosmetics and while not a fan of change in general, I really appreciate the willingness to react to our feedback. Thank you all.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

P.S. Dare I ask what the javascript coming from Cloudflare is for?

Web Production Manager

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Re, fonts: I just need to add that there are known problems specifically with "line-height" that are squishing some views pretty badly.

Known issue at the top of our radar: It seems that there's something that's doing a redirect and fail on My Downloads. It has moved up to our top priority to restore.


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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Augh, now the Forums dropdown extends so far to the right that the "Gamer Life" links are beyond the browser window (Firefox 58.0.2 [Quantum], for Win 10).

Yeah. Seeing the same thing. Firefox on Linux, though I doubt it matters.

Side effect of the size change, I'd guess.


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thejeff wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Augh, now the Forums dropdown extends so far to the right that the "Gamer Life" links are beyond the browser window (Firefox 58.0.2 [Quantum], for Win 10).

Yeah. Seeing the same thing. Firefox on Linux, though I doubt it matters.

Side effect of the size change, I'd guess.

I can still get those subforums, just CTRL and - to zoom out to 80% size.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Feedback.

Negative (minor)
The paizo.com front page. It shows "January February March". It didn't take much for figure out why, but those dates are without context. I am aware of the 2010+ style of "obfuscate the interface" but don't approve of it. There really should be a (even small) header saying something like "Products released in the month of" above/below/beside the months.

Positive (major)
A billion thanks for the design of the main menu. That it snaps into place is a thing that I cannot express my appreciation for strongly enough. Sliding menus are a pestilence and blight upon our world. Interface. Should. Not. Move.

In general, I like it. And I may have mentioned I'm not a fan of change. Kudos. I look forward to seeing what you do with the new platform.

Neutral
It seems a bit odd that there's a "higher header/menu" that comes and goes depending on if you're at the home page or deeper into a submenu. It feels like maybe it should always be present, allowing quick-jumps back to top-level choices. But hey, that's totally style.

Also, I'd suggest "Digital Content" should probably say "Digital Content Downloads". I'm been an IT guy for a quarter century and even I wouldn't be looking for my digital content in a menu called digital content. <Grin>

Configuration-specific (insignificant)
Something weird. I primarily use Firefox (64-bit, Windows). I have an add-on, "Forecastfox". It's normally a tiny widget overlaid in the upper right corner, on top of whatever content I am viewing. So if I'm at Slashdot.org, there's this tiny box in the upper right, almost never interfering with their pages, but it always can if a site were to have something all the way up there. (Sometimes a site might have a Logoff button or something, but this is so small it's rare there's a total overlap.) Anyway, on any paizo.com site, Forecastfox is freaking out and producing a horizontal grey bar the usual height, but literally the entire right-hand half of my screen. It's almost as if FCF's button is dozens of times wider than usual. Screen-shots available on request, but I figured this is worth mentioning since this is the first and only site I've ever seen this on and don't quite get how the site is causing the add-on to act differently than normal.


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Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
I can still get those subforums, just CTRL and - to zoom out to 80% size.

Ohhhh.... I did not know about that. I can see the forums now. For me, I was missing the last two columns on the right, and the third from the right is only half there.

-- david

Web Production Manager

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Anguish wrote:
The paizo.com front page. It shows "January February March". It didn't take much for figure out why, but those dates are without context. I am aware of the 2010+ style of "obfuscate the interface" but don't approve of it. There really should be a (even small) header saying something like "Products released in the month of" above/below/beside the months.

There was some wavering internally about this one. I'm leaning towards it having a header and possibly a call to action button underneath. What do you think of a title like "Newest Paizo Releases"?

Quote:
Also, I'd suggest "Digital Content" should probably say "Digital Content Downloads". I'm been an IT guy for a quarter century and even I wouldn't be looking for my digital content in a menu called digital content.

Part of this naming convention speaks to some down-the-road changes to how we show you items related to your account. We provide not only downloads, but software keys, e-tickets, and redemption codes. Knowing this, does this change your opinion on its name, or would you name it something different?

Quote:
Something weird. I primarily use Firefox (64-bit, Windows). I have an add-on, "Forecastfox". It's normally a tiny widget overlaid in the upper right corner, on top of whatever content I am viewing. So if I'm at Slashdot.org, there's this tiny box in the upper right, almost never interfering with their pages, but it always can if a site were to have something all the way up there. (Sometimes a site might have a Logoff button or something, but this is so small it's rare there's a total overlap.) Anyway, on any paizo.com site, Forecastfox is freaking out and producing a horizontal grey bar the usual height, but literally the entire right-hand...

Hm... I'm not certain what could cause such a behavior, but we typically don't test against browser addons (there's just too many and we got a lot of spinning plates). If it's truly an issue with how the header is formed, we would want to know though.


1) THANK YOU! I'd type a lot more "thank you's" here, but that would likely get annoying, so have fun imagining them instead!

You came out in a big pun intended way! This is so very the opposite of the previous problem, and it's not a problem at all!

As my expertise is not part of the rest of the post, I shall refrain, but for the one thing I have an opinion about...

Anguish wrote:
The paizo.com front page. It shows "January February March". It didn't take much for figure out why, but those dates are without context. I am aware of the 2010+ style of "obfuscate the interface" but don't approve of it. There really should be a (even small) header saying something like "Products released in the month of" above/below/beside the months.
Chris Lambertz wrote:
There was some wavering internally about this one. I'm leaning towards it having a header and possibly a call to action button underneath. What do you think of a title like "Newest Paizo Releases"?

I approve! (Though I'm totally not Anguish*!)

* Okay, hard to know whether to put the joke, "As far as you know." or the straightforward, "Probably quite obvious." - so instead, I'll just look dumb publicly flailing about for an appropriate side-comment. :D

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