Cracked Dusty Rose Prism: Advanced Ioun Stone & Implantation


Rules Questions


Hi all,
I was wondering:

Cracked Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone grants a +1 competence bonus to Initiative and the Advanced Ioun Stones from Seeker of Secrets state that "most ioun stones use the formula (bonus squared) x 1.000 x 2) for pricing.

The Cracked Dusty Rose Prism is priced at 500 gp, which means that the squared bonus would be "1/4" (or divided by 4), which make think that the base bonus must be multiplied by 1/2.

This would mean that, in possible, would be feasible to have a +6 competence bonus to Initiative with a Ioun Stone priced at...

... (+6/2)^2 x 1.000 x 2 = 18.000 gp?

Would be possible to implant it with the "Implant Ioun Stone" rules listed in Seeker of Secrets?

But once implanted would be possible to upgrade it?

Thanks,
Skarm

P.S.: I am asking because seems to me that in Pathfinder there is a terrible lack of magic items that enhance Initiative...and frankly sucks badly to need to have a familiar just to obtain a +4 bonus!


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Ask your GM. If you are the GM, then go for it. Magic item pricing guidelines aren't really rules, they're guidelines.

Personally, I think that 500gp is far too inexpensive for a +1 bonus to initiative and a +6 would be even worse, so I would not price such an item this way.


Initiative bonuses are very rare, because they are very powerful. I wouldn't allow it.


Considering how few the sources are, I doubt the DM would accept it.

As for the price, if we follow the general price of everything (Bonus squared * X gold) :
If 500 is the price for +1, then +6 would be
6*6 * 500gp = 18 000gp, which coincidently happens to match your price.

EDIT: forgot to add, technically, making this a slotted magic item would divide the cost by 2, since the cost is twice for slotless, resulting in a 9000gp for a hat of initiative +6, for exemple.


Quantum Steve wrote:
Ask your GM. If you are the GM, then go for it. Magic item pricing guidelines aren't really rules, they're guidelines.

You have a point...no...I was just thinking about it...I doubt my DM would allow.

Quantum Steve wrote:
Personally, I think that 500gp is far too inexpensive for a +1 bonus to initiative and a +6 would be even worse, so I would not price such an item this way.

I had the impression that 500 gp for a +1 item was a bit low priced too, but I think it is because, if you think about it, the Initiative bonus is incredibly useful in the 1st round, if you aren't surprised, but it becomes much less useful later:

Once that amazing flatfooted "effect" has gone, having an initiative roll of 40 or of 10 would be relatively secondary...

If you think about it, saving throws, attack rolls and damage rolls keep being useful during all combat, while initiative bonus tend to be situational.

Skarm


toastedamphibian wrote:
Initiative bonuses are very rare, because they are very powerful. I wouldn't allow it.

Initiative bonus are very powerful in the first round for some builds (i.e., rogue), but thereafter what is their usefulness?

Moreover I really don't understand why a silly familiar should grant a hefty +4 bonus (which is pretty incredible), but then, apart from Improved Initiative, a few traits, a few abilities of some archetypes that (apart from the initiative bonus) seem pretty lame, a couple of situational spells and this ioun stone, there is really no way to get an initiative bonus! :-/

My PFS character is a Kineticist build based on Initiative and I ended up having something like +14 (+4 from wildfire heart, +4 from improved initiative, +2 from Reactionary trait and +4 from dexterity), which is pretty much crazy...but with my other character with a +10 (+4 from improved initiative, +2 from Reactionary trait and +4 from dexterity) I often manage to roll low and end up with a cr...y initiative result! :-/
Skarm

P.S.: My main "issue" is that I think that an hefty initiative bonus make much more sense in a magic item than in a familiar...


Skarm wrote:
toastedamphibian wrote:
Initiative bonuses are very rare, because they are very powerful. I wouldn't allow it.

Initiative bonus are very powerful in the first round for some builds (i.e., rogue), but thereafter what is their usefulness?

The usefulness is the inertia of whatever you accomplished in that extra turn you got + anything you prevented by not being flatfooted. Should you choose to spend your first turn picking your nose, not much. If you remove 2 enemies from the fight, it is 2 full actions each round.

Quote:
Moreover I really don't understand why a silly familiar should grant a hefty +4 bonus

You will get no argument from me.


Qchaos wrote:

Considering how few the sources are, I doubt the DM would accept it.

As for the price, if we follow the general price of everything (Bonus squared * X gold) :
If 500 is the price for +1, then +6 would be
6*6 * 500gp = 18 000gp, which coincidently happens to match your price.

EDIT: forgot to add, technically, making this a slotted magic item would divide the cost by 2, since the cost is twice for slotless, resulting in a 9000gp for a hat of initiative +6, for exemple.

Yeah...I doubt too...I have a lot of fun with my DM, but he's a bit restrictive on stuff that could end up unbalanced (I have literally have been "ruled out" the purchase of opium* to use with my weapons by being told that each time I go to try to buy it, I'd end up being attacked...and that I cannot produce it...), but I wish there was a more reasonable pricing and a bit more stuff adding initiative bonuses! :(

Skarm

* = To be honest I give my DM that...drugs rules in Pathfinder are really *badly-written*...seems that for some reason they wanted to make drug overly damaging for some silly "goody goody" political operation which doesn't make sense at all:

I mean...in a world in which one *animate corpses*, *kill people*, *steal their things* (and the latter two is what technically adventurers do...go into a monster's home, kill him and take his stuff!)...what is the point of making drugs all-mighty just to point "Do you see kids? Drugs are baaad!!"!

Personally I have never taken drugs in real world and I really don't understand the "usefulness" of indulging in drugs...and to a limited extent in tabacco or alcohol...but I really don't see any sense to hijack the rules to try to brainwash people about the potential dangers of drugs (which frankly seems what was done with the no-save mechanics of drugs!)!!


Drugs are bad, mkay?

Buy a wand of Heightened Awareness for +4 to a single initiative roll, lasting 10 minutes. Then buy a Cracked Vibrant Purple Prism (ioun stone) if you're worried about having to activate the wand during stealth.

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