Ultimate Equipment wrote: polymorphic pouch: This leather pouch is usually decorated with a druidic motif. Within is an extradimensional space that can hold 4 cubic feet or 40 pounds worth of items and otherwise functions as a small bag of holding. If the bearer uses a polymorph effect or wild shape to transform into an animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin, the pouch never merges with her body. It automatically relocates to an easily-accessible place on her body (such as on a belt or a cord around her neck), allowing her to access the pouch and items within it while she is transformed. Some of the forms you can turn into that the pouch recognizes don't have any hands.
1) So, say you turned into a giant cockroach, could you pull out a potion and drink it?
Advanced Player's Guide wrote: cave druid's wild shape (Su): A cave druid gains this ability at 6th level, except that her effective druid level for this ability is equal to her druid level – 2. She cannot use wild shape to adopt a plant form. At 10th level, the cave druid can assume the form of a Small or Medium ooze as if using beast shape III, and at 12th level that of a Tiny or Large ooze as if using beast shape IV (treating the ooze as if it were a magical beast without a natural armor bonus). When in ooze form, the cave druid has no discernible anatomy and is immune to poison, sneak attacks, and critical hits. So here's my favorite ability ever, the way a cave druid can turn into a total killing machine.
2) Does a cave druid turning into an ooze count as a magical beast for the purposes of the polymorphic pouch?
3) Can an ooze pull a, say, an arrow out of a polymorphic pouch (as a move action) and use it as the target of a spell-like ability?
1: No. You can access the pouch, but that don't necessarily make you capable of using its contents.
2&3: No. There's six creature types very carefully listed there, and ooze is not one of them.
ohako wrote: Ultimate Equipment wrote: polymorphic pouch: This leather pouch is usually decorated with a druidic motif. Within is an extradimensional space that can hold 4 cubic feet or 40 pounds worth of items and otherwise functions as a small bag of holding. If the bearer uses a polymorph effect or wild shape to transform into an animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin, the pouch never merges with her body. It automatically relocates to an easily-accessible place on her body (such as on a belt or a cord around her neck), allowing her to access the pouch and items within it while she is transformed. Some of the forms you can turn into that the pouch recognizes don't have any hands.
1) So, say you turned into a giant cockroach, could you pull out a potion and drink it? Yes, if we assume it is a cord around your neck. Certain ants do this in real life.
Never mind question 3. It's not as interesting as I thought it was: ki arrow isn't a feat. Anyway...
@GM Tyrant Princess
Okaaayy...
Core Rulebook wrote: part of the section on polymorph: When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size. 4) 'Ooze' isn't on the list of creature types where all your gear is melded into your new form. Are you saying that a cave druid who turns into an ooze gets to keep all of their gear? Or, is it that all of your stuff melds into goo, and you can't use a polymorphic pouch?
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I would say you need to have an appendage to manipulate the items. So I would say a lot of creatures are still unable to utilize the contents of the polymorphic pouch.
In the case of an ant specifically....I dunno. I might allow it, but I think I probably wouldn't. I don't think ants are particular capable of grasping with their legs, and I have a hard time imagining how the ant could reach the pouch with their mandibles and manipulate the potion out of the bag. And even once you did, it would be too hard to have the fine manipulation to unstopper the bottle without hands.
As to your comment that Ooze isn't listed in the polymorph section Ohako, it doesn't need to be. The cave druid ability tells you to treat the transformation as if you were a magical beast, which is listed on the list of creature types where all your gear melds with you. Except for the polymorphic pouch, as it specifically doesn't meld. But none of that really matters (IMO) as the ooze doesn't have appendages to manipulate items.
Ants have grasping appendages on the ends of each of their legs. Here is a picture!
Ant Foot
Edit: Oh, here is an article about a picture of an ant holding a 500mg weight in its mouth. While hanging upside down. From the bottom of a piece of glass.
Artropoda.wordpress.com
It goes on to give some explanation of ants' incredible foot gripping power.
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Strength and motor manipulation skills are two very different things.
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Yeah, sorry I shouldn't have said grasping the first time when I really meant manipulating.
this almost makes me think that if I wanted to really use a polymorphic pouch, that I should get an arbiter inevitable familiar and max ranks in UMD to go with it. (although if I'm wild shaped into an ooze, I bet the arbiter wouldn't be too thrilled about it)
Eh... how much manipulation do you think is required to use a potion? Reach in with your tiny ant hand, use your claw or you suction pad to pull it out, crush in mandibles. Probably place the bag on the underside just below the point where your front to legs meet. (Like where the bottom of the ribcage on a human would be. Over the Xiphoid Process if you want to be specific.)
toastedamphibian wrote: crush in mandibles. How safe is it to chew/crush glass? And how much of the liquid are you getting in your mouth, especially with the mandibles located UNDER the mouth?
The Sideromancer wrote: Potion sponges? More viable but with the location of the mandibles, it seems like you'd have to eat the sponge in small parts instead of the normal squeeze: I can't see it taking the same action.
graystone wrote: toastedamphibian wrote: crush in mandibles. How safe is it to chew/crush glass? And how much of the liquid are you getting in your mouth, especially with the mandibles located UNDER the mouth? How safe is it to be a giant ant engaged in magical fantasy combat? Carnival sideshows can pull it off with regularity. See no reason to split hairs here.
Hell, if it really matters, get your pptions in oil form.
toastedamphibian wrote: How safe is it to be a giant ant engaged in magical fantasy combat? Fairly safe as they seem to be able to go from stepped on [by giant] and return to full strength with some healing magic.
toastedamphibian wrote: Carnival sideshows can pull it off with regularity. Magical fantasy combat or eating glass? Either way, I WANT to see those side shows. ;)
toastedamphibian wrote: See no reason to split hairs here. For me, BECAUSE it's magical fantasy, I want to see a good "magical fantasy" reason. If you fall back on scientific/realistic reason then I expect it to be scientific/realistic/plausible. I start splitting hairs when someone starts 'scientific/realistic' and when questioned shifts gears to 'it's magic/fantasy!'. :P
toastedamphibian wrote: Hell, if it really matters, get your pptions in oil form. Can you drink an oil? Or if you're spreading it, how dextrous does the form have to be? Is an ant able to cover it's back? rear thorax? Is he breaking the potion on the ground and rolling around in it? IF so, does the potion target the ground?
Crushing it with mandibles. You claimed an ant can't get fluid from mandibles to mouth, so use an oil and just let it run wherever.
Quote: Magical fantasy combat or eating glass? Either way, I WANT to see those side shows. ;) *shrug* here is one. Fairly common Geek act.
American Carny Todd Robbins eating lightbulbYouTube app - Nov 20, 2007
What, eactly, is your objection to ants feeding themselves? Originally it was "can't grab from bag", currently it is "science is bad, fantasy ants terrified of broken glass"? That can't be it...
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