Master of Many Styles concept ideas


Advice


The MoMS is probably the archetype I find the most amazing of all Pathfinder so far.

I was not around in the old days before it got changed, so I do not truly care what it used to be, but it's actualy the archetype with the most deep, varied potential I've seen.

You can almost build ANY kind of martial character using MoMS, as there is a lot of different styles, and new ones get released continously, creating new combinations again and again and again.
No archetype evolve as much as the MoMS

So... what I would like to create is actualy a guide of build ideas using MoMS.
I already seen some great ones while browsing the web, but I feel there is so much more to do with that crazy archetype.

So, if you known some interesting ideas using this archetype, please post them here :)


I rather like the idea of a weapon-using MoMS:

Ascetic Style enables the MoMS to employ unarmed styles with monk weapons. And Spear Dancing Spiral enables the MoMS to use Ascetic Style with spears and polearms (because the quarterstaff is a monk weapon).

I quite like the idea of combining the above styles with Snake Fang to get extra attacks with my polearm of choice.

However such a combo would be require a lot of feats and I'm inclined to think the Sohei a better (though less interesting) option for a polearm-using monk.


Another combination I like is Snake Fang and Panther Parry. Add Mobility and you can roam across the battlefield provoking attacks of opportunity with little fear of being hit. And for each attack you provoke you get a preemptive strike and, if your enemy misses, your own attack of opportunity. It's an effective way to simulate a mobile fighting style.

Add Lunge for opponents with reach (there's no point provoking attacks of opportunity if you haven't the reach to retaliate) and add Dragon Ferocity and Jabbing Style for extra damage.

The Exchange

I love the MoMS. if I monk dip it is always for this. I like using Panther style and Snake Style so broken with high wisdom mod. You move they get AoO if they take it bang, panther style lets you hit first for wisdom mod of unarm attracts. then if they miss their AoO you get to use snake style for two more hits. Snake style makes your hands do P damage which means if you want to be Kano you can. With the critical hit feats you can impale them with a P damage weapon. Cause a lot of feats but to impale my enemies with my hands I will take it.


While take critical hit feats... when you can take Hamatula Strike? :)


Can you post sample builds Moonclanger?

I would like to see what it looks like on paper so to speak.

Thxs in advance?


Dwarftr wrote:

Can you post sample builds Moonclanger?

I would like to see what it looks like on paper so to speak.

Thxs in advance?

I don't have time to write up complete builds but the following should be enough to get you started.

Note: since not all GMs allow the MoMS archetype with the unchained monk the following builds assume a CRB monk. The builds also assume a human monk with a bonus feat at first level.

Polearm Monk:

My weapon of choice would be the nodachi or fauchard for the threat range. The nodachi has eastern flavour and since it's a martial weapon you can acquire proficiency at first level. However the fauchard is better in the long run because it has reach. While spear dancing reach can give you reach with the nodachi, it only applies on your turn.

Nodachi feats:

L1: martial weapon proficiency: nodachi; two-weapon fighting; spear dancing style (nodachi)
L2: ascetic style (quarterstaff)
L3: weapon focus: nodachi
L5: weapon finesse
L6: wildcard style slot
L7: snake style
L9: spear dancing spiral
L10: wildcard style slot
L11: combat reflexes
L13: snake sidewind
L14: jabbing style

Fauchard feats:

L1: two-weapon fighting; weapon finesse, acsetic style (quarterstaff)
L2: spear dancing style (fauchard)
L3: exotic weapon proficiency: fauchard
L5: weapon focus: fauchard
L6: wildcard style slot
L7: snake style
L9: spear dancing spiral
L10: wildcard style slot
L11: combat reflexes
L13: snake sidewind
L14: jabbing style

Use the wildcard slots to simulate spear dancing spiral at 6th level, spear dancing reach at 9th level, spear dancing reach and snake sidewind at 10th level, spear dancing reach and snake sidewind or snake sidewind and snake fang at 11th level and spear dancing reach and snake fang at 13th level.

DEX is the most important ability and you need at least 17 to qualify for spear dancing reach. STR is also useful for damage.

I also recommend you take the quinggong monk archetype. Barkskin is a must. For snake fang to be effective you need a high AC and a decent reach.

Mobile MonK:

L1: dodge, mobility, panther style
L2: dragon style
L3: combat reflexes
L5: panther claw
L6: wildcard style slot
L7: snake style
L9: lunge
L10: wildcard style slot
L11: snake sidewind
L13: dragon ferocity
L14: jabbing style

Use the wildcard slots to simulate panther parry at 6th, panther parry and dragon ferocity at 10th, two of panther parry, dragon ferocity and snake fang at 11th, panther parry and snake fang at 13th.

DEX and WIS are the most important abilities for this build, followed by STR. You need at least 15 STR to qualify for dragon ferocity and 15 WIS for panther parry.

I also recommend you take the quinggong monk archetype. Barkskin is a must. For this build to work you need a high AC.


Nowadays, polearm Monk is easy thanks to the Versatile Design weapon modification + Ascetic Style. THat means Spear Dancing isn't needed.
Panther Style has the downside that making an AoO isn't required, so intelligent enemies might make it useless.

The problem with MoMS is that you're a medium BAB class with very little combat abilities. You get your style feats and a +3 to attack rolls at 8th level (but you're -2 compared to full BAB, so in reality, it's a +1). That's basically the entire extend of your relevant class features. No other bonus feats, the main ability from Ki Pool (the bonus attack) doesn't work as it requires FoB, and most of your other class feature don't do much in a normal combat.

There's an older, similar thread over here, by the way.


Moonclanger wrote:

Another combination I like is Snake Fang and Panther Parry. Add Mobility and you can roam across the battlefield provoking attacks of opportunity with little fear of being hit. And for each attack you provoke you get a preemptive strike and, if your enemy misses, your own attack of opportunity. It's an effective way to simulate a mobile fighting style.

Add Lunge for opponents with reach (there's no point provoking attacks of opportunity if you haven't the reach to retaliate) and add Dragon Ferocity and Jabbing Style for extra damage.

Rather than take Snake Fang and Panther parry, just take your Panther Style Feats, then dip a level in Cavalier and take Broken Wing Gambit as your Bonus Teamwork Feat. Snake Fang gives you an Attack of Opportunity whenever you are attacked and missed. Tactician + Broken Wing Gambit gives you and all your allies Attacks of Opportunity whenever any of you are attacked.

Or take Panther Style Feats or Snake Fang or Broken Wing Gambit and dip into Alchemist. If you have Panther Claw and Snake Fang or BWG, you can quaff a Dex Mutagen and give yourself a +4 Dex, and that means 2 extra Attacks of Opportunity/round. Or learn Cognatation by Discovery or Archetype and give yourself a +4 Wisdom and 2 Free Action Retaliatory Attacks/Round. This only requires 1 level in Alchemist, and any mutagen gives you a +2 Natural Armor Bonus. Taking Panther/Snake Style and Mutagen is not as good as it sounds since a Dex Mutagen gives you a -2 Wisdom, meaning you gain 1 AoO, but lose 1 Free Action Attack, and likewise a Cognatation gives you a -2 Dex, meaning you would get 2 extra Retaliatory Attacks, but lose an AoO.

I think rather than be a MOMS Monk, you'd do better to take 1 or 2 levels in Monk Master of Many Styles, maybe Ascetic Panther Style, using a Temple Sword, then take levels in Fighter and take Martial Versatility so you can apply Ascetic Style to Greatsword. Then make sure you get BWG by level 5.

Another thing I might do with Panther Style is take levels in Ninja or Unchained Rogue. Since I'm running all over the battlefield anyway, I might as well be achieving Flanking and getting Sneak Attack Damage. If you dip a level in Arcanist, you can get that Dimensional Slide Exploit, the 10' Teleport and really add a new dimension to your running around with Panther Style Feats.

I was thinking it would be kind of awesome to use Panther Style Feats as a Goblin. Goblins get these Special Feats, Tangle Feet and Roll with it. So I was thinking you'd be running all over the battlefield like a little green bowling ball, using your Acrobatics checks to tie everyone's shoelaces together, making them take Reflex Saves to keep from falling prone, and if your Acrobatics Check fails, you get your Free Action Attack from Panther Claw, and your Attack of Opportunity from BWG or Snake Fang, then you get to use Roll With it, and go skittering off on the battlefield, keeping on doing your thing. I would get a Crown of Swords, which summons a Spiritual Sword aganst anyone that hits you.

I saw a guy in PFS try to use Panther Style at level 1, and he was way too suishy to make it work. If you are going to be a MOMS Monk, you should really take advantage of the fact that you don't get Flurry of Blows anyway, and you should wear Armor. If you are going to use Panther Style Feats, I highly recommend you work in the Dodge and Mobility feats as well. You will be drawing a large number of extra attacks: Dodge and Mobility will give you a +5 AC against those Attacks you draw!


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Reach/elemental monk using Ascetic Style, Dragon Style, Elemental Fist, and Marid Style with a double-chained kama.


Derklord wrote:

Panther Style has the downside that making an AoO isn't required, so intelligent enemies might make it useless.

That's going to be a GM call. I would think that, unless he is familiar with the styles being employed or has time to study the monk in combat, an opponent would fall for panther style at least once (less intelligent opponents may fall for it more than once), and that should be enough to make it effective. However the GM handles it I would expect him to treat the player fairly.

I agree with your other comments. The MoMS is a very interesting archetype but a chained MoMS can't complete with an unchained monk. However if your GM allows it, the MoMS is compatible with the unchained monk (although he loses style strikes since they require FoB to use).


Derklord wrote:

Nowadays, polearm Monk is easy thanks to the Versatile Design weapon modification + Ascetic Style. THat means Spear Dancing isn't needed.

Panther Style has the downside that making an AoO isn't required, so intelligent enemies might make it useless.

The problem with MoMS is that you're a medium BAB class with very little combat abilities. You get your style feats and a +3 to attack rolls at 8th level (but you're -2 compared to full BAB, so in reality, it's a +1). That's basically the entire extend of your relevant class features. No other bonus feats, the main ability from Ki Pool (the bonus attack) doesn't work as it requires FoB, and most of your other class feature don't do much in a normal combat.

There's an older, similar thread over here, by the way.

I pretty much agree. I pretty much see MOMS as having a few features that are nice for multiclass dipping. But I've never seen a single class MOMS Monk that I think is better than any other option.

Then again, of course, at best, I see every class as having a few features that are nice for multiclass dipping, and I almost never see any single class anything as better than a character with lots of multiclass dipping. So, I guess you can say that's high praise coming from me for MOMS!


Barbanera the Charging Dragon-snake

The idea here is to use the synergy between Dragon Style (can charge over difficult terrain and through friends) and Pummelling Charge (can full-attack with unarmed strikes at the end of a charge). Snake Style is added for the sake of (i) counterstrikes (ii) Sense Motive to confirm the occasional critical and (iii) extra defence. There's also (iv) piercing damage, which may be occasionally useful.

Since Dragon Ferocity makes Elemental Fist available, there seems no reason not to make for this a.s.a.p. -- in the campaign I plan to play Barbanera, he'll be built to 15 points and I'm not prioritising Two-Weapon Fighting at the outset; that will have to wait until I can afford to buy him a dex belt or similar. But I'm hoping to retrain a feat at 5th level, just when the superior-version Elemental Fist hits 2d6. It goes like this:

1. Snake Style; Combat Reflexes; Toughness
2. Pummelling Style. ([i]Useless at this level but easier to buy it now than later)
3. Dragon Style.
5. Dragon Ferocity; Elemental Fist. (Toughness trained away)
6. Wildcard (Can be used as Snake Sidewind)
7. Snake Sidewind (or Two-Weapon Fighting if enough DEX)
8. (Wildcard can now be Pummelling Charge)
9. Two-Weapon Fighting or Snake Sidewind, whichever wasn't taken at level 7. (Wildcard can be Snake Fang, Pummelling Charge or Dragon Roar)
10. Wildcard (Can now use any two from three)

One possible way to continue this is to build towards Janni Rush as this is yet another charging style. While this doesn't have the direct damage output of a flurry monk, this has a lot of counterpunch potential in addition to the strong charge.


Dragonchess Player wrote:
Reach/elemental monk using Ascetic Style, Dragon Style, Elemental Fist, and Marid Style with a double-chained kama.

monk or UnMonk?


PhD. Okkam wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
Reach/elemental monk using Ascetic Style, Dragon Style, Elemental Fist, and Marid Style with a double-chained kama.
monk or UnMonk?

Must be cMonk, because even if you adept the archetypes, there's no point of making an unchained Qinggong Monk.

Thing is, there's just no reason to use MoMS for that build. Elemental Fist is vastly overrated, and could be replicated by unMonk's Elemental Fury Ki Power. Dragon Style could be replicated by simply two-handing weapon.

It shows exactly the problem most MoMS builds seem to have: The style feats are used for relatively small bonuses, which simply can't make up for the bad class chassis. There's also little reason to stay in-class if you only need to combine two style feats, so you need to come up with a combination that has three vital style paths (yet not vital enough that you can't function below 8th level) to justify MoMS mechanicaly.

Moonclanger wrote:
However if your GM allows it, the MoMS is compatible with the unchained monk (although he loses style strikes since they require FoB to use).

In any case, a 2-level-dip into Sacred Fist is something to think about - since SF explicitly uses Flurry of Blows, the ki bonus attack will work. unMoMS makes it almost mandatory.


Those are a lot of interesting ideas.

Overall, that's a fact the we can classify MoM builds into two worlds: those who use Ascetic Style, and those who keep punching people with their own fists...


Derklord wrote:
Thing is, there's just no reason to use MoMS for that build. Elemental Fist is vastly overrated, and could be replicated by unMonk's Elemental Fury Ki Power. Dragon Style could be replicated by simply two-handing weapon.

I do think you vasty underestimate the combo Dragonchess pointed out, and which is also one of my favorites with the MoM.

It's not a just a [weapon dice + 1.5xSTR + 1d6 elemental] combo...

Using the Wildcards on the different styles chains on this combo, this combo leads to:
- 15ft reach attacks (reach weapon + Marid Style)
- adding an extra attack per full attack (double weapon)
- using a 1.5xSTR damage bonus, but a 2xSTR on first attack (Dragon Style + Dragon Ferocity)
- with an extra 1xWIS damage bonus (Marid Style)
- applying also 4d6 elemental damage bonus instead of 1d6 when using Elemental Fist (Dragon Ferocity)
- making your target becoming Entangled on a failed save (Marid Spirit)
- and using 2d8 instead of the natural weapon dice damage (Ascetic Strike)

Meanwhile, you get an immunity to difficult terrain movement penality (Dragon Style) and an elemental resistance (Marid Spirit), and also a +hit bonus making you on par with the unMonk BAB (MoM's multiple style bonus).

Then, I could also mention it gives you a -free- access to 2 AoE elemental attacks applying conditions on a failed save (you just have to switch the wildcards for Dragon Fury or Marid Coldsnap)... and you can combine this with whatever Quiggong power you wish, like True Strike, Blood Crow Strike or Greater Vital Strike.

Can the unMonk can emulate that?
I don't really see how...


Moonheart wrote:

I do think you vasty underestimate the combo Dragonchess pointed out, and which is also one of my favorites with the MoM.

It's not a just a [weapon dice + 1.5xSTR + 1d6 elemental] combo...

Using the Wildcards on the different styles chains on this combo, this combo leads to:
1) 15ft reach attacks (reach weapon + Marid Style)
2) adding an extra attack per full attack (double weapon)
3) using a 1.5xSTR damage bonus, but a 2xSTR on first attack (Dragon Style + Dragon Ferocity)
4) with an extra 1xWIS damage bonus (Marid Style)
5) applying also 4d6 elemental damage bonus instead of 1d6 when using Elemental Fist (Dragon Ferocity)
6) making your target becoming Entangled on a failed save (Marid Spirit)
7) and using 2d8 instead of the natural weapon dice damage (Ascetic Strike)

1) Only for one attack per round - Marid style only works "While using (...) Elemental Fist to deal cold damage", and EF is only one attack per round.

2) In exchange for giving up Flurry and the bonus ki attack. And the potential bonus attacks from Medusa's Wrath. And the bonus attack from Elbow Smash. AND another attack at 11th level.
3) unMonk get's 1.5xSTR on all attacks, and Power Attack (with 3:1 ratio) more than makes up for the .5xSTR more on the first attack
4) Again, only on one attack per round, so still worse than unMonk with Power Attack. Also, 3d6 at the sample level.
5) Also only once per round, so the average damage per attack is still lower.
6) On a successful attack plus failed fortitude save, pretty low overall chance.
7) Not only is that already included in Ascetic Style, the examplary unMonk has it as well.

Moonheart wrote:
Meanwhile, you get an immunity to difficult terrain movement penality (Dragon Style) and an elemental resistance (Marid Spirit), and also a +hit bonus making you on par with the unMonk BAB (MoM's multiple style bonus).

On par with the unMonk when he's using Power Attack and the MoMS isn't you mean, because TWF comes with a -2 penalty. Meanwhile, the unmonk has style strikes, so either pseudo-pounce or another bonus attack. Feather Step also exists as a cheap Ki Power, so it wouldn't be any problem getting it.

Moonheart wrote:
Then, I could also mention it gives you a -free- access to 2 AoE elemental attacks applying conditions on a failed save (you just have to switch the wildcards for Dragon Fury or Marid Coldsnap)... and you can combine this with whatever Quiggong power you wish, like True Strike, Blood Crow Strike or Greater Vital Strike.

Ok, do you actually realise that unMonk has all the Qinggong Powers, only most of them earlier? And considering how weak spending a standard action to make a low-save low-damage small-range AoE is, I don't think not being able to do that isn't much of a loss.


Also, the UnMonk can choose one style, if not 3+. One feat into Dragon Style isn't bad value.


Derklord wrote:

1) Only for one attack per round - Marid style only works "While using (...) Elemental Fist to deal cold damage", and EF is only one attack per round.

2) In exchange for giving up Flurry and the bonus ki attack. And the potential bonus attacks from Medusa's Wrath. And the bonus attack from Elbow Smash. AND another attack at 11th level.
3) unMonk get's 1.5xSTR on all attacks, and Power Attack (with 3:1 ratio) more than makes up for the .5xSTR more on the first attack
4) Again, only on one attack per round, so still worse than unMonk with Power Attack. Also, 3d6 at the sample level.
5) Also only once per round, so the average damage per attack is still lower.
6) On a successful attack plus failed fortitude save, pretty low overall chance.
7) Not only is that already included in Ascetic Style, the examplary unMonk has it as well

Sigh... that's not because something only work one attack that it is not something you cannot do with an unMonk, you know.... but anyway... who cares?

This is not an optimization thread we do here.
We are not seeking the highest DPS possible at any cost, but all the funny and weird things you can only do with an MoMS.

And yes, only an MoMs can fling a double chaine 15ft reach frosting kama of doom. So the build is relevant here, while your comments on the unMonk are not.

Please stay in topic, and open another thread if you want to claim how much the unMonk is great.


An UnMonk is a closer equivalent than many other classes; and it wouldn't be that hard for one to do a 'double chaine 15ft reach frosting kama of doom' and do it better.

Nonetheless, you're looking at weird things you could do with this archetype in particular. There are a number of styles which affect grappling (e.g. snapping turtle, kraken and electric eel), being able to use them simultaneously could be fun. A sling is listed with thrown weapons in the fighter weapon groups, those whose GMs think this means they're actually thrown weapons might be able to combine slipslinger and startoss styles, and possibly unfolding wind as well.

No, I haven't actually tried either. Just thinking about it in the abstract.


An Archon /crane style , with broken wing gambit , might be fun !
Go for a high AC and let your teams mates do all the dmg with attacks of opportunity ! :)


Moonheart wrote:
And yes, only an MoMs can fling a double chaine 15ft reach frosting kama of doom. So the build is relevant here, while your comments on the unMonk are not.

Lunge. Only now, all the attacks are at 15ft reach, instead of just one. 15 feet reach, frost damage, save-or-suck effect on hit, spammable AoE damage... I can get it all on an unMonk, no problems.

Moonheart wrote:
Please stay in topic, and open another thread if you want to claim how much the unMonk is great.

It's not about unMonk being awesome, it's about that build not actually gaining anything relevant from using MoMS. If you care to read my post again, you'll see that I wasn't actually writing a critique about that build, but that I was using it as an example.

I'm not here to laugh at the 'poor suckers that are so stupid as to play an MoMS'. I'm here for "funny and weird things you can only do with an MoMS" (as you put it), only for me, using the styles for small numerical bonuses does not qualify as funny or weird.


Derklord wrote:
Moonheart wrote:
And yes, only an MoMs can fling a double chaine 15ft reach frosting kama of doom. So the build is relevant here, while your comments on the unMonk are not.
Lunge. Only now, all the attacks are at 15ft reach, instead of just one. 15 feet reach, frost damage, save-or-suck effect on hit, spammable AoE damage... I can get it all on an unMonk, no problems.

That's still out of topic, plus that combo can use Lunge too... so that would not even be a valid argument.

Derklord wrote:
Moonheart wrote:
Please stay in topic, and open another thread if you want to claim how much the unMonk is great.

It's not about unMonk being awesome, it's about that build not actually gaining anything relevant from using MoMS. If you care to read my post again, you'll see that I wasn't actually writing a critique about that build, but that I was using it as an example.

I'm not here to laugh at the 'poor suckers that are so stupid as to play an MoMS'. I'm here for "funny and weird things you can only do with an MoMS" (as you put it), only for me, using the styles for small numerical bonuses does not qualify as funny or weird.

I do think it's funny.... but not quite for the numerical values, even if they allow to make the damage output decent.

What's fun and unique, to my eyes, is that it turns the monk into a decent weapon user who can deliver 4 kinds of special attacks through its weapon... which is truly different of what a classical monk is doing normaly.
Plus, a monk flaying a flaming double kama in battle looks pretty cool...

Sure, you can use Ascetic Style on any other monk, but it actualy only gives you 2 special attacks usable like this.
Martial classes tend to be really poor in gameplay, and in my book, having a martial character with 5 different attacks is just amazing!

(In fact... I do wonder how many special moves we could fit on a single non-magic-user character?)

Silver Crusade

Its not a pure Monk build, but im using a single level Dip into MoMS with my Invulbarbarian (Enlighten Warrior Trait allows it) and its hilarious.
Level Progression
1. Invul Barb: Power Attack
2. Invul Barb
3. MoMS Monk: Crane Style and Dragon Style
4. Invul Barb
5. Unbreakable Fighter : Stalwart
6. Invulbarb

I can almost always Charge and when I fight defensivly I only get -2 Att for DR7/- which is nice.

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