Flurry of Blows and Brawlers Flurry


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

While doing research I did find that Flurry of Blows and Brawlers Flurry do not stack.

Now I do use Hero Lab to quick stat characters and get an idea of what things will look at higher levels.

Now I am aware that Hero Lab is not 100% perfect and I do not always rely on the math it uses.

I just want the correct calculations for my personal character sheet. To keep things simple for the time use the following:

Stat Array [7, 20, 14, 10, 20, 10] (Just random stats for purposes of calculations)
Feats: (That are relevant) Weapon Finesse

8 Monk/3 Brawler
With Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus and Dexterity due to weapon Finesse
My Guess: 11/11/6/6
Hero Lab: 14/14/9/9/4/4

HeroLab also has stated the following
Flurry of Blows: 9/9/4/4/-1
Brawlers Flurry: 9/9/4/-1

Now how is it calculating 6 attacks when I flurry? I get it is using 11th level Monk for the purposes of the Flurry of Blows.


I presume you're using cMonk.

I don't actually see anything that says you can stack Monk and Brawler levels, so these abilites should be completely seperate, which means that the Brawler levels could just as well be Fighter levels. Unless I'm missing an FAQ or something?

unFlurry of Blows, just like Brawler's FLurry, is imitating TWF, with imp.TWF at 8th level and gr.TWF at 15th level. The other attacks follow the regular BAB table.

cMonk flurry: Full BAB during flurry means your basic attack routine is +11/+6/+1. 8th level Flurry adds an attack at full BAB and one at -5, and then lowers all attack rolls by 2. With +5 for Dex, that's +14/+14/+9/+9/+4.

unMonk Flurry: Same base, but with a single attack at full BAB and no malus for flurry, for +16/+16/+9/+4.

In any way, the "greater TWF" attack is granted at 15th class level, you don't even have that as your character level, I have no idea what Zero Lab's doing there. The two later attack routines are indeed the two flurries (without the dex bonus); monk Flurry grants two bonus attacks (one at 1st, one at 8th level), while Brawler's Flurry only grants a single bonus attack at 2nd level (all attacks at -2, of course). No level stacking, just as it should be.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I do apologize for that, Yes I am using the Core Monk.

So when I came up with My Guess I did not calculate for BAB of other classes. I just looked at the table on page 58 of CRB. I figured I am 8th level, so therefore my FoB Attack Bonus is the bonuses provided at 8th level. After rereading it makes a bit more sense.

So basically to figure out with multiclassing I use my full monk level as BAB + other classes BAB (For purposes of FoB) Then I go to that level of the Monk Table and that is my FoB Attack Bonus?


Micheal Smith wrote:
So basically to figure out with multiclassing I use my full monk level as BAB + other classes BAB (For purposes of FoB) Then I go to that level of the Monk Table and that is my FoB Attack Bonus?

You are correct there is a FAQ about it

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9naz

You cannot mix Brawler's flurry with Monk's flurry since they are 2 different type of full-attacks. You do not loos progression in monk's flurry with this multiclass, but by RAW, you do loose in the brawler's one. As a DM I would probable house rule it and allow not to loose progression in the brawler's one, but never having extra attacks mixing both.


Micheal Smith wrote:
So basically to figure out with multiclassing I use my full monk level as BAB + other classes BAB (For purposes of FoB) Then I go to that level of the Monk Table and that is my FoB Attack Bonus?

Only if the multiclassing doesn't make you jump over 8th or 15th level.

The full version is this: While flurrying, add you cMonk level to the total BAB of all your other classes. That's a single number, in this case, 8+3=11 - this is your Base Attack Bonus (BAB). It's usually written with a + in front of the number, as it get's added to your d20 attack roll. Now you do four things with this number:
● First, at BAB 6, 11, and 16 (or higher, each), you get bonus attacks called "iterative" attacks: The one at BAB 6 with a -5 penalty, the one at BAB 11 with a -10 penalty, and the one at BAB 16 with a -15 penalty).
● Second, you get an attack at full BAB value, an attack with a -5 penalty if your cMonk level is at least 8, and an attack with a -10 penalty if your cMonk level is at least 15 - these one to three are the bonus attacks from Flurry of Blows.
● Third, you subtract 2 from all your attacks (full BAB becomes -2, a -5 penalty becomes a -7 penalty, and so on), because flurry says so. When something adds an attack at full BAB (ki attack, Haste), it's actually BAB-2 due to the flurry penalty.
● Last, add your other bonuses (strength/dexterity modifier, feats etc.).

Scarab Sages

Simpler way to think about it... look at the table for level 8 Monk. Add your BAB from other classes to each attack.

Leve 8 Monk: +6/+6/+1/+1

Level 3 Brawler: +3 BAB

Totals: +9/+9/+4/+4

Herolab seems to be counting you as having a +11 BAB and getting your second iterative, but I don't think that is what should happen, as you don't actually have a +11 BAB.


Ferious Thune wrote:

Simpler way to think about it... look at the table for level 8 Monk. Add your BAB from other classes to each attack.

Leve 8 Monk: +6/+6/+1/+1

Level 3 Brawler: +3 BAB

Totals: +9/+9/+4/+4

Herolab seems to be counting you as having a +11 BAB and getting your second iterative, but I don't think that is what should happen, as you don't actually have a +11 BAB.

When doing the monk flurry his bab from monk jumps to 8. Thus when flurrying he does have 11 bab.

Scarab Sages

Right, but does that grant the iterative? I'm not sure how it interacts with this section:

Flurry of Blows wrote:
For the purpose of these attacks, the monk’s base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.

Is qualifying for an additional iterative considered an other purpose?

I'm sure this is a well known interaction, so I'm not strongly advocating one way or the other. There was a question of why Herolab was adding an extra attack. It's not coming from combining flurry and brawler's flurry. It's coming from BAB. I just wasn't sure if that was the correct way that interaction works or not.


Ferious Thune wrote:
Is qualifying for an additional iterative considered an other purpose?

I would have normally said "no", but apparently the answer to this question is "yes".

Look at the monk flurry chart when it goes from 5th to 6th level. It says they get a secondary attack (at -5). But the monk certainly doesn't have a regular BaB of +6 yet, she has a +4.

So, probably the easiest way to look at it is this:
Monk level + BaB from other classes = new level to look at for # of flurry attacks.

Scarab Sages

That looks like it adds up, and it's simple enough.


shalandar wrote:

So, probably the easiest way to look at it is this:

Monk level + BaB from other classes = new level to look at for # of flurry attacks.

Except it's wrong. Using the monk tables is incorrect when you have for instance Monk 6/Brawler 3, because that character does not get the second flurry attack. That, and the fact that adding other class BAB to the table misses iteratives, means there is not table to look at. You really have to follow my to-do-list upthread.

It's not like it's rocket scienc, guys.

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