Player Character Options


Online Campaigns General Discussion

Dark Archive

So it had been awhile since I ran some PbP on these boards and expectations have changed a bit from then. Back then the newest supplement was Ultimate Combat so navigating the different player options was not very difficult.

Lately when I put up a PbP recruitment I get bombarded with links from D20pfsrd with various requests from obscure Pathfinder compendiums and third party supplements.

I won't go on a rant here about how difficult this makes for GMs to balance a game if they were to give in to every request, instead I would just like to ask one question.

What is the new core expectation for Game Masters in your opinion for play by post? I am using some PFS terminology there so to clarify, what supplements besides the Pathfinder Core and Adventure Path do you expect a good GM to be familiar with?


Some GMs are open to any- and everything, but most specify in their recruitment post what sources or classes are available to choose from. Players who ask for extra options can be told "No, I don't like/am not familiar with that option."

Keep in mind that many people don't flip through actual books but use online resources like the PRD, d20PfSRD, or Archives of Nethys which list classes, feats, traits, spells, etc. in one big list rather than divide them up by source, so they may not even be aware that some of their PC's components conflict with the given guidelines.

I don't think that the quality of a GM correlates with any given list of allowed resources. It's all about what the GM is comfortable with for a given campaign. A player who isn't happy with the restrictions should apply to a different game. Every game isn't for every player.


Joana wrote:

.......

It's all about what the GM is comfortable with for a given campaign. A player who isn't happy with the restrictions should apply to a different game. Every game isn't for every player.

My thoughts exactly. It is slightly annoying when a set of character creation guidelines are posted, and folks do not pay attention and create a character using sources that are not allowed, or continually ask for a source to be added to the list.

-- david


Joana wrote:

Keep in mind that many people don't flip through actual books but use online resources like the PRD, d20PfSRD, or Archives of Nethys which list classes, feats, traits, spells, etc. in one big list rather than divide them up by source, so they may not even be aware that some of their PC's components conflict with the given guidelines.

Thank you for saying that. As one of those digital players, I very rarely track what source I am getting something out of. That said, if the GM names sources, I always follow those rules.

Shadow Lodge

I have seen some campaigns limit what goes in by what was available at the time of printing. Or even more limiting (all the way to 'Core' only, meaning the core rulebook and nothing else).

I have run a few APs, and limit things all the time. Just tell your characters what you want, and ignore the folks who will (invariably) ask for more. :)

Dark Archive

So there are no expectations, and it is all relative seems to be the consensus. Very well, here is another question-"What 3pp material or extra pathfinder resources are under used and deserve to be looked at in your opinions?"


1) I post expectations at the beginning of the recruiting thread. If people don't RTFM, hey, boom: they've instantly disqualified themselves. Works a treat.

2) I'm... not sure there's a good answer to that second question? I mean, it really depends on what kind of campaign you want to run.

Doug M.

Dark Archive

I am asking for peoples opinions and I still get the old "its relative". That's pretty lazy and obvious. I will just keep my own council.


Well, for example I am running the Zeitgeist AP and I generally allow anything not spacey. I think Thunderscape is pretty good. I like the Arbiter class and the Steamwright


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From my perspective, I usually allow players to ask about 3pp material, and then I'll make my own judgement call if I think it's balanced verse Paizo material and appropriate to the campaign I'm running. I do know that the 3pp material you will be asked about the most often will be Dreamscarred Press's Psionics rules and Path of War, as well as Spheres of Power and Spheres of Might. The full rules for those are available online if you want to read over them, but if you'd rather not, you can just say "No 3pp material."

I do not think there is any expectation that a GM is required allow anything past the Core Rulebook or the Adventure Path they are running. I've seen some recruitments that specify "CORE Only" in the title of the recruitment thread, so it isn't unheard of.

I would suggest a GM be familiar with and allow the Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, Pathfinder Unchained, and the Advanced Class Guide, since they contain some very popular classes and a lot of good options - Pathfinder Unchained especially, since the Unchained Rogue is a huge upgrade over the Core Rogue. Depending on your preference, I also think being familiar with Ultimate Campaign is good for the traits it has, and Ultimate Equipment for some of the options presented there, especially class kits that contain an assortment of starting mundane adventuring gear (not weapons or armor, but backpacks, rope, and the like). Ultimate Intrigue has good feats for social characters even if you don't want to allow the Vigilante, and also is the official source of the Fencing Grace feat, the chosen feat of rapier-wielding finesse fighters everywhere. If you're okay with the rules for psychic spellcasting as presented in Occult Adventures, you can allow that, but I would make sure you are familiar with and understand the rules and classes first - especially psychic spellcasting components.

To answer your third question about what Pathfinder or 3pp materials are under-used, I actually don't know, as I don't know every option out there to know what is under-used.

If, instead of under-used, you meant asked for consistently and are worth looking at, the above 3pp materials are asked for often and worth looking at if you want to use them. Faiths of Golarion, I believe, has specific Paladin codes for the Core deities, giving a bit more guidance for both players and GMs in how to handle a Paladin of that faith, as well as extra options for divine spellcasters.

I hope this gives you more the kind of information you were looking for.


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Nimon wrote:
I am asking for peoples opinions and I still get the old "its relative". That's pretty lazy and obvious. I will just keep my own council.

Consider the possibility that you framed the question poorly.

But here, I'll add a bit. I don't allow 3PP stuff in my online campaigns, ever, at all. Several reasons. One, the quality control on Paizo's stuff is generally higher. They playtest most of their ideas, and when something is really broken -- like the shifter -- they'll go back and fix it. This isn't perfect (the "fix" of the Diabolist nerfed one of the best and most interesting PrCs) but on average it's better than anything coming out of a 3PP. Also, Paizo stuff is designed to be consistent with other Paizo stuff. They don't always succeed at this design goal, but their batting average is a lot higher than most 3PPs.

Two, there's WAY more discussion of Paizo stuff on the forums. So if a player says "I want to use the Bend Game feat" I can do a quick search and find a discussion thread saying "the Bend Game feat is okay, but it leads to the Break Game feat, and that's super problematic in the following ways". So I can have that conversation with the player long in advance. You don't generally see TacticsLion posts on 3PP stuff.

Three, I think every player (and the GM) should have access to everything a player (or the GM) can throw at you. If Alice wants to use a spell, feat or item from 3PP, then everyone should know what's up with that. So it would have to be a 3PP feat etc. that's freely available online. Most 3PP stuff is not freely available online. Yes, there's some at d20pfsrd, but it's kind of a random grab bag and most of it isn't great.

So my rule is pretty simple: no 3PP. I announce that right up front. A minor bonus: when a player pops up in the recruitment thread saying "Hey my character is a platypus-folk with the Microwave bloodline from Purple Ronin Games" bam, I have an easy bong. Because reading comprehension is a thing, you know?

So, maybe rephrase your question? Something like "Do you allow 3PP stuff in your games? If not, why not; if yes, what do you use and why?" That might give better responses.

Doug M.

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