What are the allowed weapon item levels for weapon fusion seals?


Rules Questions


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The rules for weapon fusions state the following:

"Each weapon fusion has an item level, and a fusion can't be placed on a weapon that has a lower level than the fusion's item level."

The rules for weapon fusion seals state the following:

"A weapon fusion seal only affects weapons of the given level or less, as noted in parentheses after the name of the fusion seal."

So, can weapon fusion seals only be placed on weapons of exactly the fusion's item level? For example, can a level 5 shock fusion seal only be placed on weapons whose item level is exactly 5?


As far as I can grok, you set the level of the fusion seal, which can be any level from the minimum level of the fusion in question up to level 20. You then pay the price according to the level you set, and it can be used on any weapon of that level or lower, so long as the weapon is at least the minimum level for a fusion of that type. It occupies a number of "levels worth" of fusions according to a normal fusion of that type, so even if you made a 15th level seal out of a 5th level fusion, it still only counts as 5 levels of fusions against the item's capacity.


Let's quote some stuff from the CRB, page 191:

Quote:

A fusion seal affects only weapons of a given level or less, as

noted in parentheses after the name of the fusion seal. For
example, a holy fusion seal that could be applied to any weapon
of 10th level or lower would be written holy fusion seal (10th).
Quote:

A fusion seal can’t be added to a weapon if doing so

would cause the weapon’s total level of fusions (including the
level of the fusion seal) to exceed its item level or if the weapon
is not a legitimate choice for the fusion within the fusion seal.

A regular holy fusion is only level 2.

For the "fusion seal can be applied to a weapon of level X and lower" rule to actually work, the fusion seal has to use the level of regular fusion, otherwise it doesn't make sense. If in the example above the fusion seal has a fusion level of 10, it could only be applied to level 10 weapons.

Since they state that it can be used on lower level weapons, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be be a 10th level fusion seal but a 2nd level fusion when adding fusion levels.

As it is written, it's kinda RAI more than RAW.


A couple things:
1) the price you pay is based off the level of the item the fusion is being added to, not the level of the fusion. (it took my group a bit to notice that...), +10% for a seal (so a lvl 10 seal would be 3580+358, no matter what fusion is being added to it)

2) so if you have holy fusion seal (lvl 10) as in the example, it can be added to any weapon between levels 2 and 10 (the minimum needed for holy, and the maximum level of the seal).

3) so in the OPs question, a Shock (5) seal could literally only be added to a level 5 weapon, since shock requires a minimum level of 5 to be added to a weapon, and you capped the seal at 5. But if it was a Shock (8) seal, it could be added to any weapon between 5 and 8.


The Ragi wrote:
As it is written, it's kinda RAI more than RAW.
rook1138 wrote:
if you have holy fusion seal (lvl 10) as in the example, it can be added to any weapon between levels 2 and 10 (the minimum needed for holy, and the maximum level of the seal).

It may not be quite inarguably RAW, but it's also the only interpretation that makes sense (as in, "actually likely to see decent use in actual play"), and is my reading of the rules as well.


I agree that the interpretations that Valfen and Fuzzypaws have offered are the only ones that make sense, but its not what my copy of the rules says

Under fusion seals:

"A fusion seal only affects weapons of a given level or less"

and

"A fusion seal can’t be added to a weapon if doing so
would cause the weapon’s total level of fusions (including the
level of the *fusion seal*) to exceed its item level or if the weapon
is not a legitimate choice for the fusion within the fusion seal.

The bottom sentence should probably instead read:

"A fusion seal can’t be added to a weapon if doing so
would cause the weapon’s total level of fusions (including the
level of the *fusion* that the fusion seal is created with) to exceed its item level or if the weapon is not a legitimate choice for the fusion within the fusion seal."

Thanks all!


S. J. Digriz wrote:

I agree that the interpretations that Valfen and Fuzzypaws have offered are the only ones that make sense, but its not what my copy of the rules says

Under fusion seals:

"A fusion seal only affects weapons of a given level or less"

and

"A fusion seal can’t be added to a weapon if doing so
would cause the weapon’s total level of fusions (including the
level of the *fusion seal*)
to exceed its item level or if the weapon
is not a legitimate choice for the fusion within the fusion seal.

The bottom sentence should probably instead read:

"A fusion seal can’t be added to a weapon if doing so
would cause the weapon’s total level of fusions (including the
level of the *fusion* that the fusion seal is created with) to exceed its item level or if the weapon is not a legitimate choice for the fusion within the fusion seal."

Thanks all!

Not trying to be argumentative, but that is also slightly poorly worded. Notice that it says level of fusion seal, and that:
Quote:

A fusion seal affects only weapons of a given level or less, as noted in parentheses after the name of the fusion seal. For

example, a holy fusion seal that could be applied to any weapon
of 10th level or lower would be written holy fusion seal (10th).

The number is not the actual item level of the seal. The item level of the seal is the fusion's original level.

In the example from the CRB:

holy fusion seal (10th) means that the item level for the seal is 2, since holy fusion is a 2nd level fusion, and that the (10th) dictates that item level weapons of 10 down to 0 may apply it, but that it cannot go below 2, since 2 is the minimum for the fusion seal's actual item/fusion level.


th3razzer wrote:


In the example from the CRB:

holy fusion seal (10th) means that the item level for the seal is 2, since holy fusion is a 2nd level fusion, and that the (10th) dictates that item level weapons of 10 down to 0 may apply it, but that it cannot go below 2, since 2 is the minimum for the fusion seal's actual item/fusion level.

A Much better way of explaining what I was trying to say. thank you.

This game sort of suffers from using the same word to mean so many different things...and where they intersect it can get confusing.


So, I am running Incident at Absalom Station. One of my characters has an Assault Maul (lvl 1). The disruptive fusion seal (5th) that is part of the loot... can it be added to the Assault Maul? The rules seem to contradict themselves as noted in the above thread. Thoughts?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The seal item level, 5th, provides a ceiling and means it can only be put on a weapon of 5th level or lower. But the disruptive fusion is level 3, provides a floor so it has to be on an item of 3rd or higher. So it only works on items of level 3-5.


Xenocrat wrote:
The seal item level, 5th, provides a ceiling and means it can only be put on a weapon of 5th level or lower. But the disruptive fusion is level 3, provides a floor so it has to be on an item of 3rd or higher. So it only works on items of level 3-5.

Ah! Gotcha. Seems a tad too complicated but I can understand it. Thank you for clarification.

Silver Crusade

There is literally one weapon that fusion can be applied to: swoop hammer.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That was true when Dead Suns 1 was written. It is false, with Armory.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Crag Hammerfell wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
The seal item level, 5th, provides a ceiling and means it can only be put on a weapon of 5th level or lower. But the disruptive fusion is level 3, provides a floor so it has to be on an item of 3rd or higher. So it only works on items of level 3-5.
Ah! Gotcha. Seems a tad too complicated but I can understand it. Thank you for clarification.

This took me months to figure out as well.

I foresee these early threads being rehashed years down the line by people who will be confused at our initial confusion =\

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