1 - Crownfall (GM Reference)


War for the Crown

101 to 150 of 268 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | next > last >>

I think I crushed one of my player's hopes and dreams by killing off Kalbio. And either my players are really good at acting, didn't read the text blurb online for the this chapter, or just really didn't see it coming - they were all caught totally off guard with Stavian III's Sudden But Inevitable Betrayal at the end of part 1.

So, any thoughts on letting the players attempt to raise Kalbio from the dead? The player in question is pretty intent on trying to find his body and trying to determine if they can afford the spellcasting services.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
GM PDK wrote:
What weaknesses and discovery skills did you use with the extra Senators? did you grant XPs for those? did you invent boons or in-game effects to go along with them?

The honest answer for the weaknesses and Discovery skills, is I looked at what was provided for other characters, and borrowed ones (and similar DCs [usually within 1 or 2 in either direction of the given DC]) that made sense for the blurb provided . (I don't have my exact breakdown with me at the moment. An example of this that I do remember, was that for an Influence on Duke Georgi Backus Talbot, I used Sense Motive or Stealth for Weaknesses (matching Abrielle Pace's Bluff and Stealth) representing carefully following/listening to him speak with other Senators, and getting a feeling for his love of trade. His hatred of Adventurers, etc. Then I used Know [Geography] matching her Know [Nobility] to represent knowledge of trade routes etc. As well as Diplomacy and Sense Motive (matching Okerra's in this case) to represent understanding of dealing with merchants, traders, etc. to represent understanding how to handle one-self in situations such as unexpected Tariff and tax changes, unruly port-masters, etc.)

As for experience, I instead have it planned out for my game for my players to level up at specific points (matching good "pauses" for the suggestions in the books) and thus XP didn't matter to myself or my players.

Influenced characters of this sort will likely provide the senate benefits listed in the back of the book. Should my PCs maintain good working relationships/opinions of them... After they escape the dungeon crawl. Exactly how relevant those bonuses are going to be in the AP... Well... we'll see. I have a group more concerned about plot and interacting with NPCs (even ones usually without names. ) So they won't mind either way.

Dark Archive

Sajuuk, Turtle of Creation wrote:

I think I crushed one of my player's hopes and dreams by killing off Kalbio. And either my players are really good at acting, didn't read the text blurb online for the this chapter, or just really didn't see it coming - they were all caught totally off guard with Stavian III's Sudden But Inevitable Betrayal at the end of part 1.

So, any thoughts on letting the players attempt to raise Kalbio from the dead? The player in question is pretty intent on trying to find his body and trying to determine if they can afford the spellcasting services.

By time they can afford raise dead, enough time has probably passed that they can't do it anymore, so they would have to wait until spells that don't require fresh body parts I think


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Sajuuk, Turtle of Creation wrote:

I think I crushed one of my player's hopes and dreams by killing off Kalbio. And either my players are really good at acting, didn't read the text blurb online for the this chapter, or just really didn't see it coming - they were all caught totally off guard with Stavian III's Sudden But Inevitable Betrayal at the end of part 1.

So, any thoughts on letting the players attempt to raise Kalbio from the dead? The player in question is pretty intent on trying to find his body and trying to determine if they can afford the spellcasting services.

Run the Lion's Justice for them as a one-shot with some other characters.


CorvusMask wrote:
By time they can afford raise dead, enough time has probably passed that they can't do it anymore, so they would have to wait until spells that don't require fresh body parts I think

5000 GP (they get that much in loot in the underlevels of the senate easily), with a minimum caster level of 9 so they've got 9 days to round up the funds and find a caster. Well within the realm of possibility for a party that, as a whole, wishes to do it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Sajuuk, Turtle of Creation wrote:
5000 GP (they get that much in loot in the underlevels of the senate easily), with a minimum caster level of 9 so they've got 9 days to round up the funds and find a caster. Well within the realm of possibility for a party that, as a whole, wishes to do it.

Pathfinder generally ignores supply and demand, but if 180 of the richest and most important people in the empire just died violently, the cost of raise dead might see a spike. Any local 9th level cleric is likely to have a queue.

Dark Archive

Sajuuk, Turtle of Creation wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
By time they can afford raise dead, enough time has probably passed that they can't do it anymore, so they would have to wait until spells that don't require fresh body parts I think
5000 GP (they get that much in loot in the underlevels of the senate easily), with a minimum caster level of 9 so they've got 9 days to round up the funds and find a caster. Well within the realm of possibility for a party that, as a whole, wishes to do it.

You are assuming they find the body in one piece in 9 days when they have more important things to do as well.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Actually, I wonder if canonically Kalbio does wind up raised. I wasn't joking about running The Lion's Justice; your characters are asked what to do about Kalbio at the end of that scenario.

I guess we'll have to see if he turns up again in the AP, filled with gratitude for the Pathfinder agents that had him raised.


AnimatedPaper wrote:

Actually, I wonder if canonically Kalbio does wind up raised. I wasn't joking about running The Lion's Justice; your characters are asked what to do about Kalbio at the end of that scenario.

I guess we'll have to see if he turns up again in the AP, filled with gratitude for the Pathfinder agents that had him raised.

Ehhh, not entirely sure if my passing observations qualify as spoilers for The Lion's Justice, so I'll err on the side of caution.

Spoiler:

I somehow doubt that he'll show up again in the AP given his overall lack of relevance and the fact that his fate is a variable from a non-AP book, though granted I could see it being an optional side box bonus event thing for the conclusion of the campaign. I think in my campaign if he's alive by the end of things Eutropia might give him a redo on the exaltation event as a nice little way to conclude the adventure.

However AP aside the boon you get for reviving him in The Lion's Justice definitely seems to suggest it's something you can use later in Society, at the very least for fluff purposes.

Also, I can't help but notice that there's no canonical location for Breezy Creek (at least none that I could find)...


Trichotome wrote:
Also, I can't help but notice that there's no canonical location for Breezy Creek (at least none that I could find)...

Thursty told me 'unrevealed' but Mark said, 'maybe Kazuhn?' so IMC I went with Kazuhn... :P


In the event timeline for the Exaltation Gala, Event 2, there's this line: "Review each of the areas of the senate, including those not currently accessible to the PCs."

Maybe I missed it, but where (if anywhere) is it specified which areas are or are not generally accessible?

I do see that in the event timeline, a few areas (such as emperor's hall) become inaccessible at certain points. However, none of the area-entries specifically mention being inaccessible in general.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just the individual offices of the Senators are out of bounds and conveniently not described :)


Martella's safe house: I may be missing something but is there any explanation of the secret door between E2 and E3? It's on the map and E1 explains that that secret door has been left open but there's no mention of the other one in the description for either E2 or E3. Is it secret from both sides or just the sewer side?

The description of E3 mentions it's a useful way for the players to retreat and return to the safehouse if they need to so it seems like it shouldn't be hidden from players too thoroughly.


Assuming that PCs are forced to leave weapons, armor and the like outside of the Gala, is there an explanation as to how they would get them back for Part 2?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
EsquireSandwich wrote:
Assuming that PCs are forced to leave weapons, armor and the like outside of the Gala, is there an explanation as to how they would get them back for Part 2?

The Senate actually has fairly lenient rules when it comes to what's allowed inside. See the section called Senate Rules (pages 9-10).

Here's the short list of what players are allowed:
Armor: Breastplates, ceremonial armor, and light armor
Magic: Potions, scrolls, spell component pouches, and wands
Weapons: Light and one-handed
Animals: Familiars and service animals

Aside from the odd two-handed weapon, ranged weapon, or large animal companion, players at this level shouldn't have much of a problem with these restrictions. All of the above is more than enough to effectively arm your average level 1-2 PC. And frankly someone who needs a battleaxe to function might not be in the right AP.

If someone in the party really would be handicapped without something from their usual arsenal in Part 2 however, you have multiple potential ways to solve that for them.

Option 1 is to take advantage of "Event 1: Standing in Line" (page 19) to have Kathann find a way to either help them conceal their item or otherwise sneak it in for them. This works better for smaller things that could be concealed (i.e. not a battleaxe). Poisons and Alchemist bombs are specifically called out as candidates for this solution. I'd say use this for any class-linked gear that the player cannot easily replenish through material goods.

Option 2 is to use "C4. Museum of Conquests" (page 33), Factor 12 (page 37), and/or Mimips (page 38-39) to supply your players with whatever they need. The Museum of Conquests in fact explicitly mentions this as being a place where players can re-equip themselves. Though if you're worried that players won't be properly equipped to deal with the things they encounter before reaching this room, you can use Option 3...

Option 3 is to simply have equivalent items be conveniently stored in Senator Voritas' saferooms. It's a bit of a pull yes, but you can easily handwave it as "the senator kept a large stock of various arms here just in case; among them you can find pretty much whatever item you might need".

For options 2 and 3 if your players are the sort to try and loot everything, you can always restrict what's available (the rest is all rusted and useless, or not there at all) or casually remind them that they're not going to be able to walk around with literal crates full of weapons and armour.

Dataphiles

Am I missing a first name for the Grand Prince? His children are Eutropia Stavian and Carrius Stavian, sure; And if a PC takes the Noble Scion feat their surname can be Stavian as well. But the Grand Prince is just referred to as Stavian III.

Is this a Taldan royal naming convention I don't understand? None of the backmatter GPs of days gone by have surnames (Taldaris, Beldam), so how does the family name pass down? Or is the GP's name Stavian Stavian III?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

So I started Crownfall Thursday night for 5 players. Based on some of the feedback in this thread, I added 7 extra Senators with the intention of playing by ear how many social rounds to add. I think it was a mistake. My players are already overwhelmed by the new social influence rules, and they’re failing checks all over the place. They’ve just taken out Malphene Trant, and they’ve fully influenced 3 NPCs and 2 areas. I do think they’ve done almost all their jobs, but it’s taken most of their rounds. Altogether, I think they’re feeling frustrated and unsuccessful. I feel like fewer NPCs would have led to a more relaxing intro to social combat. When I run it again in a month, I think I’m going to have at least primary and secondary inluence targets.


I threw all Senators at them... and they ran out of things to do before the end (party of 6, good skills as they built balanced characters). They mastered all areas and all NPCs, plus all the Senators.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Blue Eyed Devil wrote:

Am I missing a first name for the Grand Prince? His children are Eutropia Stavian and Carrius Stavian, sure; And if a PC takes the Noble Scion feat their surname can be Stavian as well. But the Grand Prince is just referred to as Stavian III.

Is this a Taldan royal naming convention I don't understand? None of the backmatter GPs of days gone by have surnames (Taldaris, Beldam), so how does the family name pass down? Or is the GP's name Stavian Stavian III?

As near as I can tell Grand Princes are referred to as by last name and a number, much like Americans might refer to their last few presidents as "Trump, Obama, Bush 2, Clinton, and Bush 1" rather than first name such as "King George, King Charles" and so on.

Stavian III is presumably the third member of the the Stavian family to be Grand Prince, when Eutropia takes the throne she will be "Grand Princess Stavian IV". This is a just a theory, but it seems to fit the available data points.

As far as I know the Emperor hasn't been given a canonical first name.


GM PDK wrote:
I threw all Senators at them... and they ran out of things to do before the end (party of 6, good skills as they built balanced characters). They mastered all areas and all NPCs, plus all the Senators.

So you added all the senators and increased the social rounds as recommended? Even with a party of 6 characters? I wouldn't be surprised they handled it all if that is the case, as they're still getting the extra action economy of two additional characters.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Concerning the names of the Grand Princes, they do seem to go by first names and not last names. In the preview for Chapter 6 it is said that Carrius is Carrius II.

Although this contradicts the noble scion feat which does mention Stavian as a family name.


Darkbridger wrote:
GM PDK wrote:
I threw all Senators at them... and they ran out of things to do before the end (party of 6, good skills as they built balanced characters). They mastered all areas and all NPCs, plus all the Senators.

So you added all the senators and increased the social rounds as recommended? Even with a party of 6 characters? I wouldn't be surprised they handled it all if that is the case, as they're still getting the extra action economy of two additional characters.

I didn't increase the rounds due to the addition of Senators, no. I used the rounds as listed in the AP, plus one round between each event due to some built-in boon they unlocked after a certain NPC. They generated more XPs with all those Senators, but it evens out due to the XPs being divided by 6.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Seannoss wrote:

Concerning the names of the Grand Princes, they do seem to go by first names and not last names. In the preview for Chapter 6 it is said that Carrius is Carrius II.

Although this contradicts the noble scion feat which does mention Stavian as a family name.

If you're not a Royal you don't use your First Name.

The only thing that contradicts this rule is "Princess Eutropia Stavian I"

...but, she's still not crowned yet, so if she does, I suspect her name will be:

Grand Princess Eutropia


GM PDK wrote:

I suspect her name will be:

Grand Princess Eutropia

Doesn't that make the current Emperor's name "Stavian Stavian"? That seems too weird to me. Stavian is frequently presented as a last name and "Emperor Stavian III" strongly suggests the style is "Emperor LastName" (however the number gets computed).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

From reading the backs of the books I think its clear that the Grand Princes go by their first names, so it's the last name we do not know.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

It's really unclear. It is frequently used as a first name "Stavian does this" "Stavian does that" but that could be a first or last name in the style of "Trump said X today, Obama did Y in office".

It is definitely a last name though, all page numbers are for Crownfall:

p.6 "...the bright scion of the Stavian family line"
p.8 "...Lotheed family has been a strong supporter of the Stavians for almost 100 years"
p.14 "Princess Eutropia Stavian I" has the cheekbones of her "Stavian grandmother"
p.52 "...various nobles claiming relations to the Stavian line..."
p.52 "...My name is Eutropia Stavian I..."
p.53 "...the Stavian family holdings are considerable..."
p.55 "...mental illness has long followed the Stavian family line..."
p.81 "...a connection to the Stavian line that could support a claim to the right to rule Taldor"
p.91 "...have managed the Stavian country estate for generations..."

Grand Prince Stavian III's first name could be Stavian, but if it is then he's named "Stavian Stavian". My preferred theory is that he has some unrevealed first name which is customarily dropped when one becomes Emperor. So Princess Eutropia is Eutropria now, but will be Empress Stavian IV when she takes the throne. That does leave unexplained why she calls herself Eutropia Stavian the first.

Stavian III looks like it should be read like "Louis the XIV" but I think reading it like "Bush 2" makes more sense.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ha. That certainly makes it seem like a last name. I was going off of the back cover with lines such as...

"Stavian I, firstborn of Micheaux, First of his name" obviously they should have the same last name.

"(Stavian I) was succeeded by Dominus II"

So I will change my stance. The only thing that is clear is that nothing is clear.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think it's his first name. Stavian. They call THEM the Stavians because there's been 3 Stavian grand princes in a row, so there's been a lot people born (brothers, cousins, distant cousins) in those three generations. So to anyone but him, last name becomes Stavian.

HE no longer needs a last name.

THEY (his relatives) are (last name) Stavians as a result of being born under a Grand Prince Stavian papa.

In effect, when you become Grand Prince IMO, you create a new noble house named after your first name. Your kids are Stavians; their kids become Stavians; and so on.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So Eutropia's kids might be John and Jane Eutropia? If John was older he would become the Emperor of house John and his kids might be house Mary?

Having your family name change every generation defeats the purpose of a family name. You can't even appeal to a tradition of always naming the firstborn son the same thing to preserve a family name, since the various Stavians aren't first borns and Stavian III's son wasn't named Stavian.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Stavian I's first child wasn't named Stavian either it was Gosse. Out of his three listed sons, none of them were named Stavian. And there haven't been three Stavians in a row, or at least not Stavian I, II, and III.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Who knows? :P


Not me, which is part of the reason I've only got volume one of the AP...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Who's to say that the ruler doesn't just choose their regnal name when they ascend the throne? (It's certainly how it works over here; Queen Elizabeth's father took the title George VI despite his name being Albert.)

Sovereign Court

This is an awesome AP. Do anyone known if they will make item cards and face cards for it?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I believe that those product lines have ended.

Sovereign Court

Darrell Impey UK wrote:
I believe that those product lines have ended.

That's to bad, in my gaming group we have always been big fan of the item card, there were always something special about getting the first item card in a AP.

Some of you have allready starting to play this AP, and maybe i have missed this info in my Crownfall Book. How old is Eutropia?, and how old were Carrius when he was killed?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Marcus Gehrcke wrote:

Some of you have allready starting to play this AP, and maybe i have missed this info in my Crownfall Book. How old is Eutropia?, and how old were Carrius when he was killed?

I think both answers haven't been officially given, but the best guess is, Eutropia is about 38–40, and Carrius II was 17–19 when he was killed.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Eutropia has deliberately not been given a canonical age, Paizo generally taking the position that the less nailed down they are by details (such as ages and dates) the less likely they are to paint themselves into a corner.

I don't know how to link to a post, but Crystal Frasier has said Carrius could have been as young as 12 and just acted like a teenager in another thread. Alternately, the 'teenage' Carrius, could have been as old as 19.

Stavian III's bio says Eutropia is two years older than Carrius and that Carrius died 20 years ago giving Eutropia a possible age of 34 to 41.

Sovereign Court

I am having a hard time decipher Handout 2, can not make out all of the words, can someone help me?


Sure.

Handout Two wrote:

Team Two,

Keep watch over Martella’s stooges while we dispatch her Ladyship. They seem useless, but our contract specifies eliminating Lotheed AND anyone she is working with. If they’re particularly noteworthy—say a senator or noble—keep them alive and we’ll interrogate them along with Lotheed. Have Imistos bring any such targets to the Dignified Repository.

—The Fantabulous Killer of the Brotherhood of Silence


I just noticed that Dagio should have an amulet (of some sort) in his possession. It was taken from Factor 12 but hasn't been mentioned since.


I'm confused how the characters get to level 4 by the end of this AP. I just finished part 2 with my group (4 PCs) and they are at 5500-5750 XP, so just getting to level 3, as expected (this includes the xp for saving the nobles).

My understanding is they are supposed to hit lvl 4 by the end of this book and totaling up the XP from the enemies in the repository and safehouse, plus the 1600 xp for finishing the mission I'm like 5,000 XP short for them to level up.

Any thoughts?

Grand Lodge

EsquireSandwich wrote:

I'm confused how the characters get to level 4 by the end of this AP. I just finished part 2 with my group (4 PCs) and they are at 5500-5750 XP, so just getting to level 3, as expected (this includes the xp for saving the nobles).

My understanding is they are supposed to hit lvl 4 by the end of this book and totaling up the XP from the enemies in the repository and safehouse, plus the 1600 xp for finishing the mission I'm like 5,000 XP short for them to level up.

Any thoughts?

How are you calculating exp? By my math, a group of 4 PCs should be able to hit around 7175(ish) by the time they finish Part 2, assuming they have completed all possible encounters and influenced everyone in Part 1. I had them at 2675 maximum exp at the end of Part 1.

My Math for Part 2:

Assuming party starts with 2675 exp from Part 1:
Escape Room: 1600 / 4 = 400 exp each. Future numbers will simply be individual exp.
Hall of the Protected (CR 4) = 300 each per this table (scroll down to Table: Experience Point Awards)
Museum of Conquests (CR 3) = 200 exp
Wax Figure Storage (CR 1/2) = 50
Artifact Storage (CR 3) = 200
Taxidermy Storage (CR 3) = 200
Arterial Hallway (CR 3) = 200
Seed Vault (CR 2) = 150
Chapel of Aroden (CR 2) = 150
Historical Archives (CR 3) = 200
Book Archives (CR 2) = 150
Rare Artifacts (CR 2) = 150
Ruined Hall South (CR 2) = 150
Greeting Room (CR 1) = 100 (Mimips)
Ruined Hall North (CR 1) = 100
Senate of Circles (CR 5) = 400
Lounge (CR 3) = 200
Security Room (CR 5) = 400 (CR is 4 if Gulbend already dealt with)
A SOMBER ESCAPE = 300 (escape) + 100 (per NPC saved, up to 5 NPCs counting 3 non-combat nobles, Malphene, and Zubari, max 500 exp)

TOTAL: 4500 exp possible; added to previous 2675, this makes 7175 exp obtainable by this point.

Remember that traps and non-combat obstacles (such as potentially Factor 12 in the Rare Artifacts area) still award exp for overcoming them. Disabling or triggering a trap should still award exp as if it was a combat of the same CR.


Perish Song wrote:


Remember that traps and non-combat obstacles (such as potentially Factor 12 in the Rare Artifacts area) still award...

Ok, so this is the main difference. each of my PCs got about 3500 in part 2 because I did not count the xp for the traps. I did generally award XP for creative solutions (for example, they convinced Viccar to leave peacefully though the sinkhole so got full xp as if they had fought them)

but its interesting that some rooms explicitly say to do this (like for Mimips it says to award 400 xp for trading as if they had killed him) but it does not say the same thing for trading with Factor 12.

awarding them XP for the traps is another 1K each, which basically closes the gap I need.


Healing issues with Wyssilka et al.
Wyssilka's "Tactics" include "she heals herself whenever possible" but she has no healing spells prepared, has no cure potions, and as an evil warpriest channels/fervors negative energy. How is she supposed to heal herself?

Similarly, the Norgorber cultists assisting her occasionally heal Martella when she falls unconscious. Again, no cure spells prepared or positive energy. Would the cultists really use their potions of cure light wounds on Martella?

Am I missing something?

Silver Crusade

Don't know about Wyss healing herself but she has a Healer's Kit, and giving a potion to an unconscious person isn't that far out there and as a story effect could just be giving drops of it rather than the whole potion.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Outside of combat its simple to figure out as you can use the heal skill untrained. They could give Martella a break a break for a day for long care rest. Or (and its a bit silly) three aid other plus the healers kit hits DC 20 for treat deadly wounds.

As for in combat tactics... ignore it. Its been commented upon in two other books that some NPCs tactics range from very poor to not being possible.


Seannoss wrote:
As for in combat tactics... ignore it. Its been commented upon in two other books that some NPCs tactics range from very poor to not being possible.

Been an issue for years, but some are in the "oups, forgot to rewrite that" category.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Not every NPC is supposed to use fully optimized, 100% effective and logical combat tactics.


Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but did anyone notice how the door in area E7 that heads north is simply a dead end? Strange.

101 to 150 of 268 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / War for the Crown / 1 - Crownfall (GM Reference) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.