4 - City in the Lion's Eye (GM Reference)


War for the Crown

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I would say yes. The lock is like having shields up in my games. You can't get in or out.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
topperharley wrote:

Abadar's Pillar is protected by "wards set in the outer walls and the keep [that] shield the entire structure against extradimensional intrusions (as per dimensional lock)".

Do these wards only prevent extradimensional travel **into** Abadar's Pillar? Because dimensional lock prevents travel both ways.

I'm thinking yes, because the night hags use etherealness to flee if reduced below 25 HP, and that would be blocked by dimensional lock.

The night hags have teleportation glyphs that allow them to bypass the dimensional lock effect.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I would just like to take a moment to appreciate the MC Escher work that is the ground floor of Waterhill Manor. Very fitting for an immortal madman's occasional abode! Would have been nice if I didn't have to photoshop some steps in between the dining room and the kitchen in order to avoid a random 6-foot drop somewhere, though.


Terminalmancer wrote:
I would just like to take a moment to appreciate the MC Escher work that is the ground floor of Waterhill Manor. Very fitting for an immortal madman's occasional abode! Would have been nice if I didn't have to photoshop some steps in between the dining room and the kitchen in order to avoid a random 6-foot drop somewhere, though.

Awesome


The night hags have teleportation glyphs that allow them to bypass the dimensional lock effect. - But my question is where do the hag teleport to within Abadar's Pillar. Surely the Hags wouldn't be teleporting into the Reception Hall each and every time?


I'd pick a spot and say that is it.


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“If the keep itself is invaded, Maxillar Pythareus makes his way to the roof and leaps down to the inner courtyard (area H18) to mount his horse, Honor, and rally the guards. Thanks to Honor’s horseshoes of the zephyr, the general can confront intruders on the ground, as listed in the encounter The Final Showdown (see page 54), or move to reinforce Dame Avenna and the siege engineers on the battlements.”

How does he leap from the top of a 3 story building? He just takes the falling damage???

How do the horseshoes allow honour to move up to the battlements? I guess it makes it easier for a horse to use stairs… though the stairs cases are specifically called out to be very steep in the description. What am I missing for this to make sense?

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Suspicion, page 17;
"As the PCs draw attention to themselves, they accumulate Suspicion Points as a group. The group’s Suspicion Point total imposes a penalty on all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Disguise checks the PCs attempt in and around Zimar as wary locals scrutinize them ever more intensely. It also grants Zimar Sentinels and Vault and Chain templars actively opposing or investigating
the PCs a bonus on initiative checks, as they become increasingly on edge and reactionary. As the PCs’ aura of suspicion increases, they also draw additional resistance, investigations, and even assassins. The PCs’ Suspicion Point total represents a general pall over the city, rather than being tied to specific identities; the PCs maintain their Suspicion Point total even if they swap identities."

Nothing actually says what the penalty/bonus actually is. Making it equal to the point value seems a little extreme, as the table that accompanies it allows for it to exceed 20.


Considering my groups Bard Diplomatic rolls, a minus 20 is not that bad.

My issue is that the system raises itself. You earn enough points defending yourself to go to the next level.


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Yep. Yet another failed mini-game in this AP.

I'm pretty tired of having to do so much patch work on a product I paid for. I've already dropped every extant sub-system just so I can have a playable AP, and that means figuring out other ways to reward players and move the story forward. I'm ignoring everything that isn't the base rules and just hand-waving a lot of the material. Every book has unsolvable problems that just add burdensome die rolls and piles of book-keeping that serve no story purpose. If I wanted to sit around playing bureaucratic CPA in a broken arithmetic construct, I would do that. I just want to spend a few hours a week collectively telling a story with my friends, and not have to spend ~20 extra hours on prep to make sure it all actually functions.

Just my opinion. YMMV.


I am Belrik BTw

Don't always get it right on the phone.

I also don't see why, if the characters are in disguise, anyone would show up against them. It does not follow and I don't plan to use it.


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Bryan Stephens wrote:
I also don't see why, if the characters are in disguise, anyone would show up against them. It does not follow and I don't plan to use it.

Exactly. Plus, there was that whole montage with the Lion Blades where they are SUPPOSED to learn the skills necessary to blend in in a large hostile city--might as well reward them by letting them use those skills without crippling penalties.

And, from a GM perspective, it's just one more thing to track that doesn't move the story forward. If the players are careless or ridiculously flashy, they can get caught, otherwise, why not let them succeed?


quibblemuch wrote:
Bryan Stephens wrote:
I also don't see why, if the characters are in disguise, anyone would show up against them. It does not follow and I don't plan to use it.

Exactly. Plus, there was that whole montage with the Lion Blades where they are SUPPOSED to learn the skills necessary to blend in in a large hostile city--might as well reward them by letting them use those skills without crippling penalties.

And, from a GM perspective, it's just one more thing to track that doesn't move the story forward. If the players are careless or ridiculously flashy, they can get caught, otherwise, why not let them succeed?

I ended up skipping the montage and simply saying that it happened and I gave them some extra skill points or a plus one b a b for The Bard or plus one to will for the rogue.

To take up that time we instead had more things going on in Merritt county including them being attacked by where at assassins in their home and character sessions showed up led by rexasha.


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quibblemuch wrote:
Bryan Stephens wrote:
I also don't see why, if the characters are in disguise, anyone would show up against them. It does not follow and I don't plan to use it.

Exactly. Plus, there was that whole montage with the Lion Blades where they are SUPPOSED to learn the skills necessary to blend in in a large hostile city--might as well reward them by letting them use those skills without crippling penalties.

And, from a GM perspective, it's just one more thing to track that doesn't move the story forward. If the players are careless or ridiculously flashy, they can get caught, otherwise, why not let them succeed?

I skipped the damn montage and did stuff back in Merret anyway. I had wererat assassin's and character assassins led by a Rakasha. To he group now knows they are personally on the hit lists.


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Good plan. I was thinking of doing the same thing as far as skipping the montage. It reads pretty flat in the book and the last thing players really want to do at 10th level is have to listen to "Eye of the Tiger" while I describe a training montage and they roll a few dice.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Bryan Stephens wrote:

I am Belrik BTw

Don't always get it right on the phone.

I also don't see why, if the characters are in disguise, anyone would show up against them. It does not follow and I don't plan to use it.

The way that I interpret it is that that it's not necessarily aimed directly at the PCs. The increased violence etc levels lead to increased patrols by the Sentinels which leads to a higher probability of the PCs having trouble. Obviously the higher Suspicion levels lead to direct action, but unless they have been continuously changing identities then they will slowly draw attention to themselves anyway.


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Darrell Impey UK wrote:
Bryan Stephens wrote:

I am Belrik BTw

Don't always get it right on the phone.

I also don't see why, if the characters are in disguise, anyone would show up against them. It does not follow and I don't plan to use it.

The way that I interpret it is that that it's not necessarily aimed directly at the PCs. The increased violence etc levels lead to increased patrols by the Sentinels which leads to a higher probability of the PCs having trouble. Obviously the higher Suspicion levels lead to direct action, but unless they have been continuously changing identities then they will slowly draw attention to themselves anyway.

True.

But some of the outcomes are really pointed at the PCs in particular. To make it work, I am going to show others getting harassed.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Given that there are now (as of last Saturday) corpses laying in a tea shop and a cake/coffee shop in my world, word is going to start spreading of an underground cafe war...


Darrell Impey UK wrote:
Given that there are now (as of last Saturday) corpses laying in a tea shop and a cake/coffee shop in my world, word is going to start spreading of an underground cafe war...

I fully expect that next. Already a dear Milon. My troop is already ready to hit the tea shop to take out the sisters.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So, chapter 2 finished, a few weeks break and they're off to arrest Pythareus.

But...

I have a feeling that my players are just going to either walk through the front door (or just stand outside it) and say something along the lines of "Maxillar Pythareus, we have a warrant for your arrest." Which tye adventure really doesn't seem set up to handle properly.

As written he would enter a verbal duel with the PCs (apparently with the soldiers of the Pillar as a third member of the duel).

This will probably create a wonderful roleplaying session with/for my group, and should end with them winning both. Though this apparently won't result in him surrendering, just abandoning his claim to the crown.

Now, as such I have no real problem with this, but...

... it will pretty much reduce the final chapter to a single session. It removes all of the encounters that are scattered around the fortress from the adventure, as the group won't end up sneak/fighting their way around. They may have arrested/killed him, but that doesn't give them the right to loot the place. The lesser issue with this is dropping them behind the xp/gp curve for the story - I can fix that without you much effort. The bigger issue is them not discovering things like the existence of Maxilar's paperwork or that Stavian III lives.

So (tldr) where do you think I should go from here? (There?)

Silver Crusade

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I just wouldn't have him concede. I'd instead reward the players by having some of his allies abandon him so the assault is easier but still make them go in to winkle him out


pauljathome wrote:
I just wouldn't have him concede. I'd instead reward the players by having some of his allies abandon him so the assault is easier but still make them go in to winkle him out

Excellent plan.

They get to whittle down his agents, maybe even Sentinels abandon him.

My group won't settle for that. He betrayed and murders the father on one of my group. They are going to flat out kill the SOB.

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