Can i attack myself / ally with a conductive weapon?


Rules Questions

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As a pal,i want to use Lay on Hand more than once per round and i want to do it with a a conductive weapon(swift action to myself,one hit with conductive weapon to ally or myself again).Is it legal?

Spoiler:

A conductive weapon is able to channel the energy of a spell-like or supernatural ability that relies on a melee or ranged touch attack to hit its target (such as from a cleric’s domain granted power, sorcerer’s bloodline power, oracle’s mystery revelation, or wizard’s arcane school power). When the wielder makes a successful attack of the appropriate type, he may choose to expend two uses of his magical ability to channel it through the weapon to the struck opponent, which suffers the effects of both the weapon attack and the special ability. (If the wielder has unlimited uses of a special ability, she may channel through the weapon every round.) For example, a paladin who strikes an undead opponent with her conductive greatsword can expend two uses of her lay on hands ability (a supernatural melee touch attack) to deal both greatsword damage and damage from one use of lay on hands.
A given character can use this weapon special ability only once per round (even if she has several conductive weapons), and the power works only with magical abilities of the same type as the weapon (melee or ranged).


An ally, sure. If they remain your ally afterwords is another matter.

Attacking yourself is generally a bit of a gray area, so check with your DM, but probably.

Might I suggest finding a way to deal non-lethal damage? Effects that cure damage cure an equal amount of non-lethal damage, so if your healing amount is greater than the non-lethal inflicted, it basically gets healed for free. And frankly, if your dealing MORE damage than you healing, you really need to make sure its nonlethal, or rethink your choices.

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toastedamphibian wrote:
ellipsis

Thanks for advice.I have used a trait to deal non-leth damage.

But there still is a quesion.
Quote:

A conductive weapon is able to channel the energy of a spell-like or supernatural ability that relies on a melee or ranged touch attack to hit its target.

he may choose to expend two uses of his magical ability to channel it through the weapon to the struck opponent.

It said "target" at first sentence and used "opponent" later, which make me confused.


anybody?


only if the target is undead or otherwise harmed by positive energy so no healing only death


Lady-J wrote:
only if the target is undead or otherwise harmed by positive energy so no healing only death

There is nothing in the Conductive ability I see to support that assertion. If you channel lay on hands through your Conductive weapon against someone you believe to be undead, but are mistaken, that bugger is getting healed.


toastedamphibian wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
only if the target is undead or otherwise harmed by positive energy so no healing only death
There is nothing in the Conductive ability I see to support that assertion. If you channel lay on hands through your Conductive weapon against someone you believe to be undead, but are mistaken, that bugger is getting healed.

the line "which suffers the effects of both the weapon attack and the special ability." begs to differ, they are not suffering anything if they are receiving healing.


Lady-J wrote:
toastedamphibian wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
only if the target is undead or otherwise harmed by positive energy so no healing only death
There is nothing in the Conductive ability I see to support that assertion. If you channel lay on hands through your Conductive weapon against someone you believe to be undead, but are mistaken, that bugger is getting healed.
the line "which suffers the effects of both the weapon attack and the special ability." begs to differ, they are not suffering anything if they are receiving healing.

How does one insert an eyeroll emoji? I have never felt I needed one before...


So, umm... Officially, the answer is yes, but allow me to point out the flaw here. NOTHING says that you can't use the ability twice under normal circumstances. Why you gonna stab your buddy to heal him when you can just reach out and give him a little bad touching? I mean, it's a standard action either way, so I would ASSUME that your pal would prefer you didn't stab him.

Scarab Sages

Using on yourself as a swift and on your ally as a standard should work. I’ve seen some table variation that a Paladin can’t lay on hands herself twice in one round, because it just says it isn’t a swift action and not may use it as a swift action on themselves. But there’s also the FAQ about counting as your own ally, and it seems silly that you don’t have the option to use it normally on yourself.

There is a simpler solution than conductive, even if your GM rules you can’t use LoH twice in a round. Conductive takes two uses of the ability. Channel Energy takes two uses of the ability. Just channel and heal yourself and your ally. And the rest of your party. If you think you’ll be doing that a lot, pick up Selective Channel.


Not quite true. Conductive is an ATTACK action, which might be your last itterative in a full attack.


Ferious has an excellent point. Dropping a channel is WAY smarter than stabbing your buddy.


Using the conductive weapon on your ally is not a problem, but he does take the damage from the weapon. Even if you are doing non-lethal damage you ally is probably going to be worse off after you hit him. About the only circumstance I can see where this may be even remotely useful would be if the ally is about to die and you need to heal him. Problem is that in that circumstance he will more than likely be uncurious and helpless.

Scarab Sages

I see now. It’s similar to how poisoners gloves sometimes get used by an Alchemist in a full attack routine to deliver an extract to themselves with their last attack. I think that’s a grey area that I wouldn’t be comfortable using myself, but that plenty of GMs might allow.

The thing to do as someone noted up thread would be to deal non-lethal damage with the attack. Say you deal 15 points of non-lethal, and you heal 20 points of damage. All the non-lethal would be wiped out and the target would heal 20 normal hit points.

You might run into an issue if the GM decides the target momentarily goes unconscious from the non-lethal exceeding their current hitpoints, as they would drop whatever they are holding and fall prone.

Anyway, if this was not an attempt to find a loophole in the action economy, then channel. If the intent is to use it as part of a full attack, expect table variation, but I think I’ve seen more people leaning towards allowing it with the poisoner’s gloves, so it would probably work here. I was just never comfortable enough with it to try bringing that tactic to the table.


toastedamphibian wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
only if the target is undead or otherwise harmed by positive energy so no healing only death
There is nothing in the Conductive ability I see to support that assertion. If you channel lay on hands through your Conductive weapon against someone you believe to be undead, but are mistaken, that bugger is getting healed.

also for abilities that can heal or harm, the heal or harm effect is chosen at the time of use, if you think you are fighting undead and choose to use the ability to harm undead, and you hit them it just doesn't do any effect if the target is alive rather then healing them

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