what do you think makes a class good?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


what do you think makes a class good?


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1. Clear central concept. While a lot of classes have a ton of abilities, they often rely heavily upon one or two. A witch usually debuffs with evil eye and such, a bard provides bonuses with their performance, a slayer studies the target to get combat and skill bonuses, etc. You must first define 'what does this class usually DO?" This needs to be upfront and in the open so the player can understand and plan accordingly- it gets the player to think 'I could do something with this'.

2. The class builds well on that central concept. This doesn't necessarily mean that it has to have other abilities that build on the main ability- it just needs to be good at its primary thing. The warpriest, for example, can buff itself as a swift action, which allows it to focus on its role as a 'divine beat stick', since it doesn't have the problem of 'buffing lowers average damage since you wasted a turn'.

3. The class needs a niche, and it needs to fill it well. The niche doesn't necessarily need to be unique, but you need to be answer the question "why don't I just play X instead?" For example, bards are often portrayed as a 'jack of all trades' type. It doesn't have the expansive spell list of a wizard... but you would still enjoy having a bard because it could throw out both an essential buff spell and a performance in round 1. The morale bonuses also tend to stack with most buffs and scales well, which allows it to remain relevant even when wizards can quicken most spells.

Silver Crusade

Can you have fun and make it interesting for you to play or to throw at your players.


Lemeres hit it on the head with the niche, but some other thoughts :

It needs to be capable at doing something. Generally this means it has a fair chance to be the best at one aspect of the game. For instance, the core rogue couldn't really do the damage dealing job that well, despite the intention being sneaky stabs.

It needs to be interesting. It has to feel like something you can fulfill in mechanics and role play. If that works against each other everyone has problems. I need to be able to make a strong character with interesting features.

It's better to have versatility. Rogue talents, paladin mercies, cleric domains, etc. Something to set it apart from all the other wizards with their own specialty schools. Again mechanics and flavor in concert.


Mystic_Snowfang wrote:
Can you have fun and make it interesting for you to play or to throw at your players.

I was thinking something more specific.


In addition to what Lemeres said, mechanically I like classes with lots of options that support customization.

If they ever get round to a Pathfinder 2.0 I'd like to see classes so flexible that archetypes are no longer necessary.


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Clear central concept is a good start, but I'd like to add versatility. Be good at different things, both in and out of combat. Inquisitors are good skillmonkeys while also being a dangerous force in combat. Fighters and Barbarians hit really hard in combat, but that's pretty much all they do. A main thing and a niche are great, but over-reliance on those things means you're losing ground on other things. It's a team-based game, where you're supposed to have each other's backs, but sometimes, the Rogue gets captured or the Barbarian is passed out somewhere and you need to respectively sneak/talk your way into somewhere or apply brute force in combat. A Slayer can do both, for instance.


I could echo some previous smart comments here, but to be honest: I consider a class good when it fits my playstyle, primarily. A low to medium power level and the chance to tinker are important also.

So, looking at the CRB, I end up liking barbarians, rogues and sorcerers. They are geared towards offense, and you can wade into melee with them (barbarian, rogue) or at least throw satisfying damage spells (sorcerer). Success is not guaranteed (especially for rogues), so building and playing properly is rewarded.

On the other hand, I consider druids an overpowered and abominable patchwork of distinct class features: Spells + companion + shapeshifting + vaguely nature themed minor bonuses? Eew... But tastes are different, luckily.

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