Red mage has long been one of my favorite classes in Final Fantasy and playing one currently in FFXIV has reinforced my love for this class.
I was looking around for new character ideas and came across the Magus options in the advanced class guide. Here I found the flamboyant arcana that lets me pick up derring-do and parry reposite for one arcana. This inspired me to make a Magus “Red Mage”. This character will use damage and battlefield control spells (toppling magic missile to start) at range. When the bad guys close in I will blast them with a spell strike and back away.
Another key part of the Red Mage is they are flamboyant. I was thinking about somehow using Charisma as my main caster stat, but skill points are useful too. I was thinking with a 20 point build doing 16 dex, 14 cha and int. Probably putting my dex and/or int higher with racials.
For my traits, I want the one that lets me prepare toppling magic missile as a level 1 spell. I’m not sure about the other. This spell alone could carry me through the first few levels.
For feats, I need toppling meta, weapon finesse, and combat reflexes as quickly as possible.
For skills, I know I want maxed out diplomacy and acrobatics. Obviously high perception is useful. I think I would like high perform as well.
What do you think? And how can I improve it?
You're thinking of a bard. And yes the red mage is a bard. I know red mages don't sing which is why you take the http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo-bard-arc hetypes/arcane-duelist/ archetype. And there you have it, boom red mage.
Agreed, though perhaps the Magician archetype instead, so you can add Wizard spells to the bard spell list, to get your Burning Hands, Lightning Bolt, etc.
Nope, I’m looking at a Magus. Bard does not fit the character I’m envisioning. Maybe if I was doing a gestalt character, but even then I doubt I would go with bard. Bard is much more of a support role than the character I’m talking about.
While I see where you are coming from, bard does not mirror the current rendition of Red Mage.
In terms of Final Fantasy Job Classes like the Red Mage, a Magus is actually closer to a Sorcerer (Final Fantasy, not Pathfinder Sorcerer. That's a whole other can of worms), a Job Class that imbues their weapon with spells and then whacks the f#+! out things with them. As a "Sword Mage" I find it a highly adequate subclass selection for a Red Mage though. Extreme versatility, as you have the freedom to cast both Black and White Magic to middle tier against enemies with low magic resistance and beat on things with low physical resistance, exploiting elemental vulnerabilities either way. That and adequate defense because Red Mages can wear Medium Armor, and essentially infinite resources as you can use the Osmose Sword spell to refill your MP with every physical attack.
A Red Mage is essentially a hybrid of three Job Classes - Fighter, White Mage, and Black Mage. Magus or Paladin (Depending on preference for Black or White Magic) is a solid Fighter core if you like the Red Mage/Sorcerer(FF) build like me, and you can substitute Arcane and Divine Magic over Black and White Magic.
The question then becomes whether you want to be a Prepared or Spontaneous caster, as that would basically dictate whether you wanted to take levels in Wizard and Cleric, or Sorcerer(PF) and Oracle. Spontaneous is likely a better thematic fit. Early Final Fantasy is a solid reference for a Spontaneous Caster, as you could only learn a small number of different spells but could use any of them as long as you had enough slots of the appropriate level. Later entries let you learn every spell in the game potentially, which is more akin to a Prepared Caster, minus the fact that they could still cast Spontaneously and no longer had a slot level restriction.
Your caster levels WOULD be somewhat gimped no matter what, but thats kind of the point of a Red Mage - they can't do anything as well as a specialist, but have flexibility by being somewhat competent in all areas, making them ideal as a support to a Fighter/White Mage/Black Mage party composition.
EDIT: If you were looking to Gestalt a Red Mage, you really can't go wrong with a Magus+Paladin in Mithral Breastplate. It's MAD as hell, but you can probably work around that with Archetype choices.
The Red Mage has had more varied iterations than any other class in history. The current version from FFXIV is the one Im looking at mimicking. This version is a primary dps caster that charges up when casting magic and uses the charge to run in and hit with a strong rapier attack. Then he creates some distance and starts casting again.
Obviously, this won’t translate directly to pathfinder, but gaining the pinache abilities though an arcana gives the flavor to the Magus that feels right to me. The other option would be a swashbuckler with some casting somehow.
FFXIV’s Red Mage gains access to cure and revive spells as well, but not until very late levels. I was thinking there was a way to gain cure spells from bard at high levels, but haven’t had time to look yet. The white Mage side is there, but distant.
I’ve also played a bard as a Red Mage in a previous campaign. The bard quickly became the focal point of the class. I have a gestalt bloodrager/paladin in one of our gestalt games. Again the flavor of those classes superceeds being Red Mage like. The closest I remember was a class back in 3.5 (forget the name at the moment) that reminds me of the Magus.
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I'll try to hit the goals you've outlined in your opening post (uses CHA, spellstrike, toppling metamagic etc.).
The archetype I would suggest is the Eldritch Scion. This turns you into a CHA-based spontaneous-casting magus, with flavour of bloodrager as you get to pick a bloodline. You get to select which one, so this gives options from what the different bloodrager bloodlines offer.
The main new mechanic to grasp is under Eldritch Pool (modifies Arcane Pool) - "As a swift action, he can spend a point of eldritch energy to enter a state of mystical focus for 2 rounds", so until level 8 you'll need to be in mystic focus to use spell combat, and it's also when you gain the bloodrage benefits from your bloodline. Spellstrike and spell combat are so often combined, it's easy to forget they're actually are two separate class features. This won't inhibit your spellstrikes, as:
Spellstrike wrote: At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. So you can still spellstrike like normal, just not go into a full-round spell combat without burning a swift action and pool point (which isn't an easy fit with your described idea of "blast them with a spell strike and back away" anyway). This restriction is lifted at level 8, which is the same level the magus gains an iterative attack, making spell combat a little more appealing. I don't think this will frustrate your concept.
You also can't use normal Arcane Pool enhancements until level 4, but it's a shorter-lived/melee-focused concern.
For ability scores, at 20 points as a basic template:
STR: 12
DEX: 15
CON: 12
INT: 12
WIS: 12
CHA: 14
This is without racial modifiers, which can be used to bump DEX and/or CHA depending on your choice. Reflex is your only weak class save, and with a DEX focus you should have sound saves on all fronts. You can drop WIS lower with your good will progression if you want it invested elsewhere, but a +1 is so cheap. CON on the other hand I wouldn't skimp on. As a D8 class, even if you intend to avoid melee, a basic bump puts you only on par with a D10, CON 10 class. INT was to help with skills, and STR is droppable but adds a modest bonus to damage for little cost if you can't find a way to get DEX to damage.
Be mindful that, as a spontaneous caster, metamagic will push your cast time to a full round action. This isn't crippling for your signature toppling magic missile, but if it bugs you pick up Spontaneous Metafocus for magic missile.
Feats-wise, I'd take weapon finesse first as you'll only have a whole 2-3 uses of magic missile in the first couple of levels, so unless you want to bring a bow for backup, decent melee accuracy for a consistent source of damage will help get you through adventuring days. Pick up topple next, and if you want it Spontaneous Metafocus can be taken as your level 5 magus bonus feat. Another option for that level (you could get both at 5) is Arcane Strike, which can choke your swift actions a bit, but is a decent patch for not having DEX to damage at level 5 (before that it only adds +1 damage). I know melee isn't your focus, so it's more of a backup option should you get crowded/run out of spells. Lastly, Dirty Fighting can be used to qualify for Improved Trip and later Greater Trip without the Int 13 required to pick up Combat Expertise, if you want to improve your toppling further.
I’ve been trying to figure out scion, but I’m not sure it’s worth it. What bloodline do you think fits and would be worth using an arcane point? It’s main draw is the cha casting stat and spontaneous casting. With only 2 skill points per level, I felt I needed 14 int anyway. Spell recall almost makes me a spontaneous caster without the increased cast time on metamagic, but it does end up using a lot of arcane points.
Dirty fighting looks cool. Would I get the +4 bonus for tripping with magic missile?
Keep in mind that while the mystic focus ability may seem quirky, you aren't obliged to use it. You'd only touch it if you wanted to use your arcane pool for a weapon enhancement (at levels 1-3), or to use spell combat (at levels 1-7). After that, it's purely an additional option on top of the vanilla magus Arcane Pool, so even if you only get the odd, situational uses out of it, you haven't "lost" anything in exchange.
Regarding the +4 bonus, based on the Toppling Spell wording below, and the section I've bolded, I'd be really surprised if that didn't apply.
Toppling Spell wrote: Benefit: The impact of your force spell is strong enough to knock the target prone. If the target takes damage, fails its saving throw, or is moved by your force spell, make a trip check against the target, using your caster level plus your casting ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, Intelligence for wizards, and so on). This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the check fails, the target cannot attempt to trip you or the force effect in response. I also meant to bring up combat reflexes/flamboyant arcana, but ran out of time. Keep in mind that opportune parry and riposte is designed for the fundamentally different pool mechanic of Panache. Swashbucklers are expected to be regaining Panache points here and there with crits and defeating/killing blows on enemies, whereas your magus won't have such a recharge mechanic (at least not that I'm aware of). If you go with a vanilla magus, your spell recalls and parries are each going to cost 1 Arcane Pool point every time to use them, which could really starve you for resources until you get up to a significantly high level/pool size.
Spontaneous casting would allow you to devote your pool primarily to parries without fighting over resources with your magic missiles. I'm happy to go over bloodline candidates too, but I've got to travel soon so I can do so later today. I can think of some promising ones, though.
If your INT is 13 or higher then you can take Combat Expertise or Dirty Fighting, your choice. Personally I think Dirty Fighting fits better with being flamboyant and throwing out stylish CM attempts than the more defensive Combat Expertise effect, which also kind of wastefully overlaps with your parry-based approach to dealing with being attacked.
Once I hit 8 spell combat is free again?
Arcane looks decent. I also noticed it said you have to use the mystical focus to gain abilities that require blood rage. This indicates that some do not. Can’t really tell which ones do and do not require blood rage. If I don’t have to spend an arcane pint every 12 seconds flying from elemental may put this archetype over the top for me.
Good point on the arcane pool being used for multiple abilities and thus draining quickly.
Unless the bloodline power specifically states otherwise, it is only manifested during the rage itself (or in your case the Mystic Focus).
On the question of Dirty Fighting and Toppling Magic missile, no it won't work. Toppling Magic Missiles never gain the benefit of +2 from flanking. Dirty Fighting only increases that bonus if it's present. It's not a flat +2/4 to all trip checks.
On spell combat, you got it right. Eldritch Pool carries 2 restrictions in comparison to base Arcane Pool. One is no weapon enhancements, which gets lifted at level 4, and note you don't even get +2 bonus/variation options until level 5, so you're just going 3 levels without a +1 bonus. The other is no spell combat without mystic focus, and that gets lifted at level 8, after which you have all that Arcane Pool offers + mystic focus on demand.
For bloodrage powers, the short version is everything under "Bloodline Powers" is bloodrage-only unless a specific ability states otherwise in its own text. To back that up if you want reassurance, here's the quote:
Bloodrager Bloodlines wrote: When a bloodrager enters a bloodrage, he often takes on a physical transformation influenced by his bloodline and powered by the magic that roils within him. Unless otherwise specified, he gains the effects of his bloodline powers only while in a bloodrage; once the bloodrage ends, all powers from his bloodline immediately cease, and any physical changes the bloodrager underwent revert, restoring him to normal. Bolded is the key part. Here's a good example from the Arcane bloodline:
Caster's Scourge (Ex) wrote: At 12th level, you gain a number of extra attacks of opportunity equal to your Dexterity modifier (minimum 1). You can use these attacks of opportunity only against spellcasters in your threatened area who cast or attempt to cast defensively. The Spellbreaker feat, the caster’s bane bloodrage power (see below), or some similar effect is still required to make attacks of opportunity against spellcasters who are casting defensively. You have this ability constantly, even while not bloodraging. Arcane is a good "gold standard" bloodline, which you can take as a base to evaluate other options that might fit you even better. About half of its powers focus on attacking spellcasters trying to cast defensively in your threatened area, which likely won't come up much for you. The rest add some solid buffs though. At level 4 you get 1 of (chosen each time):
>Blur: Concealment (20% miss chance)
>Protection From Arrows: DR 10/magic against ranged weapons (max of 10 per level, up to 100)
>Resist Energy (choose one energy type): Immunity to one energy type (max of 12 per level, up to 120)
>Spider Climb: Climb speed of 20 feet and +8 racial bonus on Climb, plus no Climb checks on a vertical or horizontal surfaces (even upside down)
Spider Climb is very situational, but the other 3 give you some pretty nice protective measures. Getting energy immunity or serious protection from ranged attacks for a couple of rounds a go can really help. Along with your parries you can treat pool points as your "defensive measures" reserve against a wide variety of threats.
I won't go into as much detail, but at level 8 you get Displacement (50% miss chance) or Haste (hopefully you know this one) added, and at level 16 Beast Shape IV (a creature your size or larger only), Form Of The Dragon I, or Transformation as well.
Keep in mind you get to pick 1 item from each of those lists, so e.g. at level 8 you could spend a single pool point to get 2 rounds of Protection From Arrows and Haste, to close the distance with a ranged enemy and shrug off their fire while you did. Haste alone for a single pool point is, IMHO, an excellent bargain. Even if it only lasts for 2 rounds a go, you usually don't need the effects on constantly (e.g. if you know Boots of Speed, use it at key moments like them), and it's just a swift action to renew if you want more.
A few other bloodlines I'll highlight as good candidates:
>Aberrant: Immunity to a number of nasty things over time, including critical hits and sneak attacks, though it may not fit your theme
>Celestial: At level 8, once per mystic focus you can reroll an ability check/skill check/saving throw, and at 12 you can do bursts of flight
>Destined: This has a lot going for it, and since it may fit the theme of your character well I'd suggest reading it all, but my personal favourite is getting a +1 luck bonus to AC and saving throws at level 4 that increases by 1 more every 4 levels, to +5 at 20, so when things get serious it's your "I put awesome magic-armour on and go in flamboyantly" button (for 1 pool point per 2 rounds)
PS: To add to what cavernshark said, Dirty Fighting itself won't help you with Toppling Spell, sorry if I was unclear. What will give you a +4 is Improved Trip and Greater Trip, which require Combat Expertise or Dirty Fighting to take. That was my thinking with that.
Yeah one point of arcane may not be worth 2 rounds of flight. Then again we’re talking about doing a dragon rider campaign soon. If I use this character for that, “jumping” from my dragon to my target would be pretty cool.
Thanks for the clarifications.
Now if only you could use something like Convert to trade hp to refill your spells per day and Chainspell to rapidly cast spells like the Red Mage from FFXI, then you'd be all set.
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