Robin Hood vs. Little John quarterstaff duel on a log


Rules Questions


In the classic battle between Robin Hood and Little John, they duel on a log with quarterstaves. Acrobatics checks are for moving not standing. Reposition specifically doesn't allow moving someone to a space intrinsically dangerous, so as written, it can't be used to reposition your opponent off the log if falling from the log would do them harm. Trip knocks you prone, but not off your square, and making your opponent go prone isn't the goal. A trip seems like more of a leg sweep action, which seems less applicable. Is there anything explicitly that would push an opponent off the log? The goal isn't to do damage. A wild quarterstaff swing might open you up to damage. It seems like a mix of strength, pushing, and dexterity, balance. Do the rules as written handle this neatly or do new rules need to be added? Should the reposition limitation be ignored? Would a general non-specific maneuver check of CMB vs CMD work? How should balance be handled? It would seem that a successful push could topple both opponents instead of just the target. Is there a way to make the duel fun from a rules standpoint and not just a single action quick ending?


In the classic story, the log was just over a stream to keep people from having to wade through the water; it wasn't necessarily dangerous to fall off, just inconvenient. In fact, when Little John was knocked off, he wasn't hurt, any more than his pride.


Acrobatics wrote:

You can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling.

If you take damage while using Acrobatics, you must immediately make another Acrobatics check at the same DC to avoid falling or being knocked prone.

If you are on a square that you can land on, you are knocked prone.

If you are on a surface smaller than you, you would fall off. As the Check is to stay on the surface.


Look at the existing Common Uses rules, then make something up along those lines if they don't fit your situation. Skill descriptions delineate common uses--they are not exhaustive, and many published modules have checks that aren't covered directly by those uses.

Skills wrote:
Characters can sometimes use skills for purposes other than those noted here, at the GM's discretion.


I'd go with forcing an acrobatics check to avoid falling from any kind of forced movement. Trip = Log Dc, bullrush/drag/reposition = Log Dc +1 per 5ft their maneuver check lets them move you. This is up to +5 for equally paired opponents. If they can both make the acrobatics check +5 on a 1, well, noones falling off. Otherwise, someone will get a high Combat Manuver roll that results in a low acrobatics roll.

Consider making the thickness / height of the log vary along it's length for added tactical variety.

Also remember not to add their Dexterity to their CMD while balancing.


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Also, thanks, Madame Endor. Now I can't get the opening music to Disney's Robin Hood out of my head.

"Robin Hood and Little John walkin' through the fo-rest,
Something something something something something something worrrrds
Something something something words, something something some-thing,
Oo-de-lally, oo-de-lally, golly, what a daaayyyy."


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I believe the explanation is the Little John is a level 16 brawler.

The original ballad it was just called a 'long narrow bridge', in the Howard Pyle version it was a bridge made out of a log. Neither implied that the footing was particularly treacherous, although only wide enough for a single person at a time.

In neither was the 'goal' particularly to knock someone off, it was just that John hit Robin so hard he went flying.

Grand Lodge

Here's a situation I have seen, and how the GM handled it.

Along a 5ft bridge over a canyon, two characters were battling it out. As has been said, Reposition doesn't allow someone to just move them off the bridge. Bull rush didn't work either since it has to be in a straight line from the one who initiated the maneuver.

The solution? Grapple. Next turn, maintain grapple, and move the grappled target up to half your speed. At that point, you'd be able to reposition them off the bridge. The grappled target gets a free Escape Artist or CMB check to break free since it's placing the target in a hazardous square, but other than that there is little they can do.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
blahpers wrote:

Also, thanks, Madame Endor. Now I can't get the opening music to Disney's Robin Hood out of my head.

"Robin Hood and Little John walkin' through the fo-rest,
Something something something something something something worrrrds
Something something something words, something something some-thing,
Oo-de-lally, oo-de-lally, golly, what a daaayyyy."

Let Warner Brothers fix it.

/cevah


1 person marked this as a favorite.
blahpers wrote:

Also, thanks, Madame Endor. Now I can't get the opening music to Disney's Robin Hood out of my head.

"Robin Hood and Little John walkin' through the fo-rest,
Something something something something something something worrrrds
Something something something words, something something some-thing,
Oo-de-lally, oo-de-lally, golly, what a daaayyyy."

So you subscribe to the view that Robin is a Kitsune Ranger?


In the 1939 classic version, Robin fights Friar Tuck in a stream with swords. (The swords used a "knightly swords", a design intermediate between the earlier Viking "arming" sword and the later longsword. It has a one-handed grip and a sharp, piercing point. Robin later dispatches Guy in the famous duel using one.)


Zaskar24 wrote:
blahpers wrote:

Also, thanks, Madame Endor. Now I can't get the opening music to Disney's Robin Hood out of my head.

"Robin Hood and Little John walkin' through the fo-rest,
Something something something something something something worrrrds
Something something something words, something something some-thing,
Oo-de-lally, oo-de-lally, golly, what a daaayyyy."

So you subscribe to the view that Robin is a Kitsune Ranger?

He's a hunter. Little John is his animal companion and shares all his teamwork feats. That's why they're always together. :)


Try this.

http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/1102602/Adventures-Of-Robin-Hood-The-Mov ie-Clip-Play-A-Livelier-Tune-.html


Quote:

Ki Throw (Combat)

Your physical control and mastery of momentum allows you to throw enemies.

Prerequisites: Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: On a successful unarmed trip attack against a target your size or smaller, you may throw the target prone in any square you threaten rather than its own square. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and you cannot throw the creature into a space occupied by other creatures.
Special: A monk may gain Ki Throw as a bonus feat at 10th level. A monk with this feat can affect creatures larger than his own size by spending 1 ki point per size category difference.

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