Myrmidarch Ranged Spellstrike

[isdestroyer]

I can't seem to find my specific question on the forums, so if it has been answered before, just point me in the right direction.

Ranged Spellstrike wrote wrote:

At 4th level, a myrmidarch can use spellstrike to cast a single-target touch attack ranged spell and deliver it through a ranged weapon attack. Even if the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies the attack.

So, I know that a myrmidarch can't use Spell Combat and Ranged Spellstrike at the same time, but the wording of Ranged Spellstrike seems to imply that you cast a spell and make the ranged attack at the same time. Not two attacks, just one attack roll with two damage effects.

But if that's true, it begs the question; which effect am I using for the attack roll? A ranged touch spell targets Touch AC, but a regular attack targets normal AC. If I spellstrike with a bow, and I can cast and attack at the same time, am I targeting Touch or normal AC?

Now, I plan to make a myrm that uses a gun, so the particular point is moot for me, so I am more concerned with the first issue; does Ranged Spellstrike allow for one attack roll with two damage effects?

To clarify the first question: I declare that I am using Ranged Spellstrike and casting snowball. I hit my target, and I deal my weapon damage AND my spell damage. Is this correct?

Sorry if this is all still confusing, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Claxon]

Basically ranged spellstrike works just like normal spellstrike, but through a ranged weapon instead of a melee weapon.

So you make one attack roll, against whatever AC your weapon would normally target (usually not touch AC, unless you're using firearms within their first range increment).

And then you get normal weapon damage, with whatever bonuses you would normally get with your weapon. And then the spell effect also accompanies the attack.

[isdestroyer]

Ok, so use the attack of the weapon, got it. Thank you for that clarification. Does it also allow for the casting of the spell in the same action as the attack? This is crucial for allowing the Myrm to work with ranged weapons.

[Claxon]

No, it doesn't. That's why Myrmadarch is a terrible archetype and so then they made the Eldritch Archer, which is functionally what you want it to be.

Also, for what it's worth regular spellstrike isn't what allows a normal magus to cast and make additional attacks in the round. That Spell Combat. People often conflate the effects of Spell Combat and Spell Strike for the base Magus, which is most likely how this archetype got published. It was then later "corrected" with the Eldritch Archer archetype.

[blahpers]

Is there a cite for that? Spellstrike allows the magus to cast a touch spell and make a free weapon attack in place of the free touch attack. What makes ranged spellstrike any different?

[Chess Pwn]

I think Claxon is seeing "casting of the spell in the same action as the attack?" as poor phrasing of spell combat. Casting the spell in the same actions as your normal attack(s). Thus his comment that the ability to cast and attack is spell combat makes sense.

I agree blahpers that the if the OP is asking if the bow attack replaces the ranged touch attack from the spell that the answer is yes, that's what ranged spellstrike is doing.

I don't think either of you actually view any of these rules differently. Just saw different questions from the same words.

[The Sideromancer]

I think dropping Spell combat was deliberate on the Myrmidarch. It's not the ranged-focused option, it's the mixed option. Granted, that wasn't the strongest when it first released, but now it has Advanced Weapon Training.

[isdestroyer]

Well, the only reason I asked was because of the wording of ranged spellstrike. It clearly says that you cast a spell and make an attack. You're correct in saying that the Eldritch Archer does all of this better, but for my purposes, I plan on playing in PFS, where E.A. isn't an option. I am attempting to forestall table variance by having a rule (or ruling) that I can point to.

According to my reading of the ability (as highlighted in my original post), ranged spellstrike says you cast the spell and then make your weapon attack. Since you can't hold the charge of a ranged touch spell, this will be the only way to use ranged spellstrike without Quicken Spell.

If the consensus is that you need Quicken Spell to make the Myrm's ranged spellstrike work, then I need to give up on the idea of playing a gun magus in PFS.

[Claxon]

Chess Pwn wrote:

I think Claxon is seeing "casting of the spell in the same action as the attack?" as poor phrasing of spell combat. Casting the spell in the same actions as your normal attack(s). Thus his comment that the ability to cast and attack is spell combat makes sense.

I agree blahpers that the if the OP is asking if the bow attack replaces the ranged touch attack from the spell that the answer is yes, that's what ranged spellstrike is doing.

I don't think either of you actually view any of these rules differently. Just saw different questions from the same words.

You are correct.

I thought the OP was asking if they could spell combat while making the ranged attack using Spellstrike. If that isn't what the OP was asking, then my answer will not apply.

If the OP is asking, does Ranged Spellstrike let you do what you would expect from a ranged equivalent of Spellstrike, then yes. You can cast a qualifying ranged attack spell and deliver it through your gun and bullet, rather than a ranged touch attack. You can't do it as part of a full round action which would enable you to make multiple firearm attacks and cast a spell (that would be the Ranged Spell Combat portion of Eldritch Archer).

[MKtheDM]

Claxon wrote:

No, it doesn't. That's why Myrmadarch is a terrible archetype and so then they made the Eldritch Archer, which is functionally what you want it to be.

It also has no Spell Recall; and therefore garbage.

IN MY OPINION!! I did not use facts for that statement.

[Viondar]

As long as you can free action a hand free to cast and then free action to hold your weapon again, even two handed weapons can be used for spellstrike, or ranged spellstrike. Either way, the weapon would have to hit, for the spell to take effect.

Myrmidarch cannot use ranged spell combat, though. So, if you're going to use a gun with touch AC hitting, the big pro of the myrmidarch (weapon training and armor training) seems kinda lost on you.

To my mind, you'd be better off using the eldritch archer archetype. Or is that one forbidden in your campaign?

[isdestroyer]

Viondar wrote:

As long as you can free action a hand free to cast and then free action to hold your weapon again, even two handed weapons can be used for spellstrike, or ranged spellstrike. Either way, the weapon would have to hit, for the spell to take effect.

Myrmidarch cannot use ranged spell combat, though. So, if you're going to use a gun with touch AC hitting, the big pro of the myrmidarch (weapon training and armor training) seems kinda lost on you.

To my mind, you'd be better off using the eldritch archer archetype. Or is that one forbidden in your campaign?

It's for PFS, in which the E.A. is banned.

[Viondar]

Ah, I see...
Well, since you seem to be myrmidarching, anyway, be sure to take those gloves of duelling ;)