Unarmored AC Build Opinions?


Advice


I'm going to be playing a Pirate game soon, probablly end up being the Captain(Strong Tail Merfolk) since i'm the most "reliable" player in the group, at least as far as showing up to games.

Long story short, I'm trying to get the Highest unarmored AC possible. The GM in the game typically gives us pretty exceptional stats (I've had characters with nothing lower than 16 at level 1 before Their games are horribly broken, but fun as hell)

So far what I have is either
Swashbuckler 3
Unchained Monk 4
Duelist 3

or
Swashbuckler 1
Unchained Rogue 3
Unchained Monk 3
Duelist 3

I expect we will start at level 10 so the build is made for that level, but will increase later.

With the Top level distribution:

Swashbuckler gives me dodging panache for Cha to AC (granted i have to burn a panache point, but i'll have a Scimitar I think, so that shouldn't be a problem

Monk gives me Wis to AC of course and barkskin via Qui-Gong

Duelist Gives me Int to AC, and i'll only go in as far as my int mod needs me to at later levels

I expect my stats after Racial, level and the "starting" gear I plan to buy will be something like
Str 11 - 0
Dex 18 - 22
Con 14 - 14
Int 14 - 16
Wis 16 - 18
Cha 18 - 20

Which Means my AC shoudl be 10 + 6 + 4(+1) + 3 +2(+2) +1 +4 +5
Base, dex, wis(monk), int, Nat(bark) Dodge, Bracers of Armor, Cha

The feats and weapons are where i get mixed up. A Wave Blade is a Light piercing Monk weapon with an 18-20 crit.. so since its a monk weapon, even though its listed as exotic, I should be proficient with it, and be able to use flurry of blows but since I dont think i'll be able to add dex to damage with any feats, I think i might have to take the bottom level split for level 3 rogue finesses My AC will be slightly lower but my damage, way higher and at level 11 (monk4) i'll get barkskin via Qui-Gong

I'm super hesitant to take rogue levels though as there is a lot of ability overlap there (though I do like the extra skill points)

Is there anything huge i'm missing here? Even with the "lower" ac build, i should still have a 35 and that doesn't even include a ring of protection.


Find a way to get the Shield spell. Maybe UMD and a wand, or dip a class that has Shield spell on the list.


You don't get proficiency in wave blade by being a monk, you would have to take the feat to be proficient. Why do you want to be completely unarmored? Three levels of rogue gives some nice things for the dip so probably worth it.


*Thelith wrote:
You don't get proficiency in wave blade by being a monk, you would have to take the feat to be proficient. Why do you want to be completely unarmored? Three levels of rogue gives some nice things for the dip so probably worth it.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency

Monks are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, short sword, shortspear, shuriken, siangham, sling, spear, and any weapon with the monk special weapon quality.

Waveblade 5 gp 1d4 1d6 18–20/×2 — 2 lbs. P or S monk, see text PPZO94102


if you're going to use the unchained monk and already are looking at charisma to ac, you should consider the scaled fist archetype for more charisma to ac. that way you dont need to budget points to wisdom, allowing you to have more charisma, which means more panache, which means more uses of dodging panache per day.

since the waveblade is a "monk weapon" then it would make an excellent replacement for a rapier, and since exotics tend to be slightly more powerful than martials, getting access to it without a feat is very nice. if flurry crits count to your panache regen, this could have a ton of potential.

and if you have any casters on hand, they can provide some buffs too. wizards and sorcerers use the VERY nice Mage Armor, and witches and druids use the more limited but still nice nereid's grace. you might want to look into ways to gain protection from arrows or bullets too, given it's a pirate themed adventure. i wouldn't be surprised if there were a few Gunslinger/Swashbuckler cross-class enemies.


Pink Dragon wrote:
Find a way to get the Shield spell. Maybe UMD and a wand, or dip a class that has Shield spell on the list.

If he dips a level in a class that has shield he almost definitely also has Mage Armor.


Be a Rogue, Ninja, or something. Use Stealth. Take the Rogue Talent False Attacker. Snipe people from hiding and make Bluff Checks to stay all stealthy.

Take some levels in Bard with the Firedancer Archetype. That lets you and your allies see through smoke. Then get an Eversmoking Bottle, which Blinds everyone within 20' except you and your party because you are a Firedancer. It doesn't improve your AC, but it gives you a 50% Miss Chance due to Total Concealment.

Take some levels in the Living Archetype Prestige Class. You get DR, immunity to Bleed and precision damage, and auto-stabilize.

While you still can! Take 5 levels in Alchemist and/or other familiar-having classes. Get a Tumor Familiar with the Protector Archetype. You are protected by Bodyguard and Shield Other offset by the Familiar's Fast Healing 5.

Druid Wild Shape gives a Natural Armor bonus to AC. And if you 'Shape into really small things, you get Size Bonus to AC.

Be a Tiefling. Create Magical Darkness. You have Darkvision.


Tumor familiar can't get protector archetype now (well if you pay attention to ultimate wilderness).

He could take the eldritch scoundrel rogue archetype. It would cost him 1d6 sneak attack, but he gets spells.


Some Oracles can get CHA to AC as well.


Scaled Fist Monk, Base Oracle with the Lore Mystery and Sidestep Secret revelation, 2 levels of Paladin.

Scaled Fist gives you Cha as an AC bonus, instead of WIS
Lore Mystery's Sidestep Secret lets you replace your Dex bonus to AC and Reflex with Cha
Paladin's Divine Grace gives you an untyped bonus to all saves.


Scaled Fist and Sidestep Secret/Nature's Whispers (which is the better one because it goes to CMD instead of reflex and is an EX ability instead of SU, meaning it functions in Antimagic Fields) won't stack as Scaled Fist changes the Monk's "Wisdom Bonus to AC" into a "Charisma Bonus to AC", and Sidestep Secret/Nature's Whispers replaces every character's natural "Dexterity Bonus to AC" with a "Charisma Bonus to AC". Because two "Charisma Bonus to AC" won't stack, you can't double dip like that.

Likewise, Sidestep Secret's "Charisma Bonus to Reflex" won't stack with the Paladin's Divine Grace, as Divine Grace is NOT untyped. It is a "Charisma Bonus to Reflex" (and Fortitude and Will), just like Sidestep Secret (though obviously the increases to Will and Fortitude work normally), so for the same reasons as the AC, it won't work.

That being said, the Paladin's Divine Grace is VERY good for a high-charisma character, as long as you have a table where there isn't even one person - you, the GM, or anyone you're playing with - that can't hear the word "Paladin", or possibly even just "Lawful Good", without reflexively groaning, so it could still be worth it as a Lore Mystery Oracle, though if it was me I'd go with Nature Mystery and buy a Ring of Revelation (Lore Master) later on instead. If you take 4 levels as a Spirit Guide Oracle for the Life Spirit and 2 levels of Paladin you even have a basic Oradin shell, making you notoriously difficult to kill even when something does actually manage to hit you.

If your table can't handle a Paladin, and given this is a Pirate game that's totally reasonable, then there's a Faith Trait called Irrepressible to replace your Wisdom Bonus to Will Saves with your Charisma Bonus instead, but unfortunately it only works on Charm and Compulsion effects, so any non-mental Will saves and you're extremely vulnerable until you get your Cloak of Resistance.

If you decide to take Sidestep Secret/Nature's Whispers, unless the Scaled Fist has other features you really want, stick to the base Monk as if you come across any Wisdom increasing headbands that nobody else needs, you can wear them for a day to internalize the bonuses so that you can gain at least a little bit of AC from that feature. Otherwise pass on Sidestep Secret/Nature's Whispers (and possibly Oracle as a whole unless you want to try some Urban Barbarian/Bloodrager cycling cheese with the Lame Curse's eventual immunity to Fatigue) and go with the Scaled Fist.


Shaman speaker of the past X with 1 monk level.
you get a spirt armor + wis (main ability) to AC + dex + barkskin + shiled of faith (human). = not bad at all.
flurry a Q-staff with battle domain or take life spirit and go guided hand for SAD build .

9 level caster, hexes, and good all around build.


666bender wrote:

Shaman speaker of the past X with 1 monk level.

you get a spirt armor + wis (main ability) to AC + dex + barkskin + shiled of faith (human). = not bad at all.
flurry a Q-staff with battle domain or take life spirit and go guided hand for SAD build .

9 level caster, hexes, and good all around build.

I'm fairly certain the OP intends to be a martial class Dex Damage critter, given his choice of weaponry. Nothing says "Arr me hearties, we be pirates!" like a 9th level Divine Caster.


Water Dancer Monk using Crane Style and taking Osyluth Grace then taking the Devoted Muse prestige class can add their Charisma to their AC four times: once as an untyped bonus, once as a dodge bonus equal to their charisma mod, and twice as a dodge bonus equal to the lesser of their charisma modifier and their levels in a class.


Water Dancer isn't compatible with the unchained monk, and isn't untyped. it does all stack though.

Water Dancer: Charisma Bonus instead of Wisdom Bonus. this is NOT UNTYPED.
More Water Dancer: Charisma as Dodge (1 per class level)
Osyluth Guile: Charisma as Dodge (When fighting defensively)
Artful Defense: Charisma as Dodge (1 per class level)
Crane Style: +1 dodge (when fighting defensively or using total defense)
Crane Wing: +4 dodge when fighting defensively with at least one free hand. lose the bonus if the enemy misses by 4 or less, but if you would actually get hit during total defense, deflect for free. this effect doesnt say you need a hand free, so maybe exploitable?
Crane riposte: free attack of opportunity whenever you crane wing stuff, reduce penalty for fighting defensively

if you decide to use chained monk for water dancer, stick to it unless you want the other features of the devoted muse. artful defense is literally the same as water dancer's nereid's grace in terms of dodge bonus (don't confuse it with the spell nereid's grace which is a deflection bonus from charisma.) Either way, replacing wisdom with charisma is fine, but i suggest keeping your dexterity in place so that you can maintain a higher AC and do better damage. charisma is a b~#~! to get on hit and damage (pally smite can +cha to hit, but only vs evil stuff and undead) so dexterity is the path of least resistance.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Water Dancer Monk using Crane Style and taking Osyluth Grace then taking the Devoted Muse prestige class can add their Charisma to their AC four times: once as an untyped bonus, once as a dodge bonus equal to their charisma mod, and twice as a dodge bonus equal to the lesser of their charisma modifier and their levels in a class.

Now that you mention it, I just noticed that the Water Dancer Monk archetype, despite being from the very recently released Ultimate Wilderness, seems not to provide for application to Unchained Monk. What's up with that? Since you seem to be stuck with this, and you need 5 levels before entering the Devoted Muse prestige class, which would mean losing 2 BAB as pre-Unchained Monk alone, it might be worth dipping 1 level of Swashbuckler, which gets you the Weapon Finesse you need anyway, as well as giving you early access to the Opportune Parry and Riposte Deed that the prestige class delays giving you access to, or alternatively (with some archetypes) instead gives you a Deed that the prestige class wouldn't give you at all.

Ikorus wrote:

{. . .}

f you decide to use chained monk for water dancer, stick to it unless you want the other features of the devoted muse. artful defense is literally the same as water dancer's nereid's grace in terms of dodge bonus (don't confuse it with the spell nereid's grace which is a deflection bonus from charisma.) Either way, replacing wisdom with charisma is fine, but i suggest keeping your dexterity in place so that you can maintain a higher AC and do better damage. charisma is a b#@@~ to get on hit and damage (pally smite can +cha to hit, but only vs evil stuff and undead) so dexterity is the path of least resistance.

If you worship Desna (which is unfortunately incompatible with the Devoted Muse idea discussed above) and are a Neutral Good Aasimar with the Enlightened Warrior trait (which lets you advance as Monk without being Lawful Good), you could get Desna's Shooting Star (Divine Fighting Technique) to get Charisma to Attack and Damage. Note that Water Dancer Monk trades out Flurry of Blows anyway, so the fact that the Starknife is not a Monk Weapon doesn't matter as much.


nicholas storm wrote:
Tumor familiar can't get protector archetype now (well if you pay attention to ultimate wilderness).

That's what I meant when

I wrote:
While you still can!


There are numerous discussions on this forum about the possibility of the AC granted by the Sacred Fist Warpriest and the Monk AC bonus stacking with each other. Assuming that it is correct or allowed, you could dip into that and get an effective X2 to your Wisdom to AC.

There are of course numerous discussions on whether or not the abilities in question stacks, and the possibility it might not at your table.

BUT...those are for those discussions. Discuss it with your GM, see if he is okay with it. If he is, that is an option you could take.


I might attempt a parry & cut from the air build.

Inspired Blade Swashbuckler 1/Unchained Barbarian 4;

Human, Stats - Str 13, Dex 18+2, the rest is whatever. Get yourself a good Con score.

Feats
1 - Combat Reflexes
1B - Weapon Finesse
1B - Weapon Focus: Rapier
H - Power Attack
3 - Whatever: Retrained to Martial Focus at 5th.
5 - Cut From the Air

Traits
Fencer
???

Rage Powers
3/2 - Reckless Abandon
5/4 - Accurate Stance

Gear: +1 Furious Rapier, aught else.

To hit: +5dex+5bab+1enh+1wf=+12, +13AoO due to Fencer.

Rage to Hit: +12base+2rage+2RA+2AS+2enh=+20, +21 on AoOs.

So you have an effective AC of at least 14, up to 33 with a middle point of 23/24 for six attacks a round normally, rising to 22-41 (31/32) while raging.

Plus, you get to be super scinematic by actually parrying all the stuff, instead of just having a (boring) passive AC.


seems unlikely to work with a base monk, but it should absolutely work with a water dancer or scaled fist if you happen to have good amounts of both wisdom and charisma

if this was an Obsidian game that would be OP as hell for a caster since both WIS and CHA go to spell DCs there.


I personally like the combo of:
Scaled Fist UnMonk 1/V. Bravo Paladin X (you can take up to 3 Monk levels before it is not worth it anymore)

Cha for Saves, CHA for AC, Stunning Fist DC, Flurry of Blows, Smite and Precision damage, Parry and riposte, Increased AC.

I take Dangerously CUrious trait for UMD as a skill

I use a +1 Answering Waveblade as my weapon. 18-20 weapon that can be used as part of a flurry.


The Pathfinder Worldscape provided some interesting archetypes. Sword-Devil or if guns are allowed Warlord both provide a method of unarmored AC.


Louise Bishop wrote:

I personally like the combo of:

Scaled Fist UnMonk 1/V. Bravo Paladin X (you can take up to 3 Monk levels before it is not worth it anymore)

Cha for Saves, CHA for AC, Stunning Fist DC, Flurry of Blows, Smite and Precision damage, Parry and riposte, Increased AC.

I take Dangerously CUrious trait for UMD as a skill

I use a +1 Answering Waveblade as my weapon. 18-20 weapon that can be used as part of a flurry.

answering is a REALLY NICE enchantment. really encourages riposting as much as possible, which is good because a natural 18-20, once Keen'd, is going to be generating a lot of panache through crits, and you dont want to over cap.

that's a really good find.


Ikorus wrote:
666bender wrote:

Shaman speaker of the past X with 1 monk level.

you get a spirt armor + wis (main ability) to AC + dex + barkskin + shiled of faith (human). = not bad at all.
flurry a Q-staff with battle domain or take life spirit and go guided hand for SAD build .

9 level caster, hexes, and good all around build.

I'm fairly certain the OP intends to be a martial class Dex Damage critter, given his choice of weaponry. Nothing says "Arr me hearties, we be pirates!" like a 9th level Divine Caster.

You are correct. Since i'll likely be the Ship Captain, I wanted to do the normal Swashbuckling Dandy (even though most of the crew will actually be Evil, or at least morally ambiguous It fits the campaign world and we will all have a common goal so I dont expect to be any Infighting among the group, though we will definitely make some things harder for ourselvs.) I'm Less concerned about damage output and more about AC, mainly becuase i've never done a chracter like this before

Thank you all for the Feedback. I think I've finalized my build, baring any game changing revelations from our GM.

Ranger 1 (I felt bad loosing disable device after dropping the rogue levels form too much overlap and a revelation with WaveBlace/Slashing Grace
Swashbuckler 1
Unchained Monk 6
Duelist 2

S1 Weapon Finesse (swashbuckler)
L1 University (Educated) (houserule 3.0/3.5 Feat from AEG feats. Gives Extra skills points per level but can only take at first level)
M1 Dodge
M2 Combat Reflexes
L3 Weapon Focus (Wave Blade)
L5 Slashing Grace (wave Blade) (since its both piercing and slashing, I should be able to apply it here, but only do piercing dmaage, if i understand the feat correctly)
M6 Mobility
L7 Leadership (gotta have hte Kinetecist for Ships Mage and Wind controll
L9 Unarmored Specialist (Necromancers of hte Northwest 3rd Party feat add +2 dodge AC '+4 at 10' when you have no "armor" bonus, so mage armor would mess it up)

Monk Style Strike Defensive Spin (there doesn't seem to be a prohibition against using this and the wave blace since i'm not holding another weapon
Ki Power 4 Barkskin
Ki Power 6 Gaseous Form (because why would you ever not take gaseous form ^_^ )

This should give my AC a total of 41 when everything is active
10 + 6(DEX) +5(total dodge) +5(total Monk) +2(duelist) +2(race nat) +2(barkskin) +4(defensive Spin) +5(Dodging Panache)

Grand Lodge

Have you considered the kensai magus? High dex and Int, shield, UMD Mage armor or spell blending. Magus can use dodging panache if you don't dump Cha.

666 blender's idea is great scaling armor (like mage armor), great AC spells, Grippli will also give you a size bonus.


Not sure if mentioned, but Unchained Monk doesn't actually qualify for the Qigong archetype, though I think they can take anything from the Qigong list as a Ki Power anyway.


There are also some items that give decent AC bonuses. Like Amulet of Natural Armor and Ring of Protection. The amulet is a natural armor bonus, of course, and it stacks with Barkskin I believe. The ring is a deflection bonus.

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