Archmage Variel's Guide to the Shifter


Advice

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Archmage Variel: please see the edit to my last post. Melded items that provide constant effects without activation continue to work melded.

As to 'losing a claw', deinonychus loses a foreclaw after 7th.


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graystone wrote:
Archmage Variel: please see the edit to my last post. Melded items that provide constant effects without activation continue to work melded.

I suppose you're right. I'll make sure to add them in after I finish my Chem quiz. I'm a very productive procrastinator.


Why do i see no swarmsbane clasp? Gotta get that damage yo.


willuwontu wrote:
Why do i see no swarmsbane clasp? Gotta get that damage yo.

Because Archmage Variel asked for "good slotless items" and that isn't slotless...

If you mean in the guide it competes with Amulet of Mighty Fists/Natural Armor. With those in play, I can only see the clasp if you KNOW you're fighting a LOT of swarms and then you'd swap back to your normal neck item once you're past the swarms.


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Swarmbane Clasp seemed a bit too situational to really warrant adding. There are a lot of items like Swarmbane Clasp which excel in very specific circumstances, but that'd be a long list to try to overview and a bit too situational to really warrant. And, like graystone said, it really requires you to know you'll be facing a lot of swarms beforehand.


lemeres wrote:
One of the main problems the class has as a full BAB class is that it lacks the attack booster- most full BAB classes have mechanic that can reliably give them a +4 to attack (and damage as well), resulting in +24 total from the class. This helps to separate them from 3/4 BAB classes.

As long as you don't deal with iteratives, your AB needs less investment. A CR 20 creature's AC is only 25 points higher than the one of a CR 1 creature, according to Bestiary reference values. Most of this difference is covered by full BAB already, and increasing ability scores + enhancement bonuses + probably more stuff brings you safely to the point of 'I miss only when rolling an 1'.


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SheepishEidolon wrote:
lemeres wrote:
One of the main problems the class has as a full BAB class is that it lacks the attack booster- most full BAB classes have mechanic that can reliably give them a +4 to attack (and damage as well), resulting in +24 total from the class. This helps to separate them from 3/4 BAB classes.
As long as you don't deal with iteratives, your AB needs less investment. A CR 20 creature's AC is only 25 points higher than the one of a CR 1 creature, according to Bestiary reference values. Most of this difference is covered by full BAB already, and increasing ability scores + enhancement bonuses + probably more stuff brings you safely to the point of 'I miss only when rolling an 1'.

There are some builds (mainly ones using weretouched) that do utilize weapons, but for the most part you're right.


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Archmage Variel wrote:
SheepishEidolon wrote:
lemeres wrote:
One of the main problems the class has as a full BAB class is that it lacks the attack booster- most full BAB classes have mechanic that can reliably give them a +4 to attack (and damage as well), resulting in +24 total from the class. This helps to separate them from 3/4 BAB classes.
As long as you don't deal with iteratives, your AB needs less investment. A CR 20 creature's AC is only 25 points higher than the one of a CR 1 creature, according to Bestiary reference values. Most of this difference is covered by full BAB already, and increasing ability scores + enhancement bonuses + probably more stuff brings you safely to the point of 'I miss only when rolling an 1'.
There are some builds (mainly ones using weretouched) that do utilize weapons, but for the most part you're right.

Particularly since my comment was made regarding the elementalist.

The elementalist is directly discouraged from using natural attacks. It turns into elementals (which have maybe 1-2 slams at most), it loses the claw attacks, and its central damage ability- charging attacks with its element- doesn't work with polymorph effects on (such as turning into its major form, which functions as elemental body).

The elementalist is hard pressed to even make a natural attack build function- maybe a tengu with their natural bite/claw/claw? Or twisting aspect of the beast so they can get claws on a bite-y race?

Thus, they tend to make full use of the scimitar proficiency. Which isn't bad- they hit like a cavalier if they are not facing resistances (and they can get multiple elements to try to dodge around that issue). But that means they have to deal with iteratives.

Of course, my argument stills stands even if you are doing the ever present tiger pounce- they are worse at it than druids, since druids get size bonuses to strength that make up for their lower BAB. I think the only reason shifters hit ever so slightly harder than druids is due mostly to the higher BAB for power attack. Maybe some damage from the shifter claw increase? For a class devoted to being a shape shifting brute compared to the druid.. that doesn't feel like enough in return for 9 spell levels. I would at least expect the +24 baseline.


The bonus most full BAB characters get matters more at low levels I think. At 11th level the +6 stat bonuses from a barbarian's rage matter relatively less than the +4 stat bonuses they get at level 1. The direct equivalent looks to be the minor aspect bonuses, which start at +2 to one stat and could become +6 to three stats at 15th level.

The shifter gets more utility than a barbarian but less combat strength - the bonuses are lower at low levels and by the time they get better the bonuses are easily replaced by goldmancy, being enhancement-typed.


avr wrote:

The bonus most full BAB characters get matters more at low levels I think. At 11th level the +6 stat bonuses from a barbarian's rage matter relatively less than the +4 stat bonuses they get at level 1. The direct equivalent looks to be the minor aspect bonuses, which start at +2 to one stat and could become +6 to three stats at 15th level.

The shifter gets more utility than a barbarian but less combat strength - the bonuses are lower at low levels and by the time they get better the bonuses are easily replaced by goldmancy, being enhancement-typed.

Goldmancy gets cheap when everyone starts to get enough money to buy their belts. That is why I never placed much value in such mechanics.

If you wanted a goldmancy mechanic that actually remained relevant, look at things like divine bond, which stacks with other sources of enhancement. That allows the paladin to have a mechanic that somewhat simulates the attack mechanics of other classes early on (allowing an option when paladins face neutral enemies, or they are dealing with early level limits on smite use). Later on, even when it's enhancement bonus to damage is obsolete, it can be used to add on a variety of useful enhancements like speed, holy, or brilliant energy.

The goldmancy mechanics of the shifter worked better on the hunter, because the hunter applied them to the animal companion too (and the companion would otherwise represent a large wealth sink when you bought a second stat belt).

And barbarian is not the only class you shoulder compare it against (although it has options too if you want to waste a rage round)- you also have to deal with the OTHER full BAB druid-y class, the ranger. Rangers have spells (including one that allows them to get their damage mechanic against anything), and they can get animal companions that have many of the same abilities as the shifter.

On that note, honestly, if you were willing to spend the feats to get an animal companion, you could some of the problems I have referenced- getting a companion to serve as a flank buddy would provide the kind of boost I am referring to. And it would actually make the goldmancy more relevant- you could give your stat belt to the dog instead.


Another day another build

Rageshaper this time

Rageshaper:
Trox

Shifter (rageshaper) 20

Stats:
Str: 24 (18+6)
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 8 (10-2)
Wis: 12 (14-2)
Cha: 7 (9-2)

Stat bonuses
Level 4: Str
Level 8: Str
Level 12: Str
Level 16: Str
Level 20: Str

Traits:
Bully
Reactionary

Feats:
Level 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Butchering Axe)
Level 3: Power Attack
Level 5: Improved Sunder
Level 7: Vital Strike
Level 9: devastating strike
Level 11: improved vital strike
Level 13: furious focus
Level 15: Painful Blow
Level 17: greater vital strike
Level 19: greater sunder

Weapons:
+5 Resizing Impact Butchering Axe
6d6 +18 (no PA or form)
16d6 +42 (PA and form)
64d6 +48 (vital strike, PA, and form)

Note: Buy a cyclops helm to make the save to leave form, or just laugh as you attack your party. Whatever floats your boat really.

I would like to see this build with mythic VS.

Any thoughts comment advice?


avr wrote:


The shifter gets more utility than a barbarian but less combat strength - the bonuses are lower at low levels and by the time they get better the bonuses are easily replaced by goldmancy, being enhancement-typed.

The shifter actually gets less utility than the Barbarian. Barbarian can fly, sunder spells, and even have access to their own version of True Seeing (which isn't a divination, and therefore bypasses Mind Blank). There's really very little you'd want a Shifter for over a Barbarian.

And this isn't even taking into account the Beastkin Berserker Barbarian, which is literally just a better Shifter in every conceivable way.


Trox are one of those races with no-its-not-really-LA +2, i.e. a trox shifter 18 is supposed to be equivalent to a human shifter 20. Just make your rageshaper an orc or something.

Whoever bullied this character as a child must have been brave and is probably dead.

I think furious focus at 13 & greater sunder being pushed up to level 19 demonstrates neatly why the shifter needs a few bonus feats.

A cyclops helm works once per day only when it's allowed at all. And with their will save increasing at +1/3 level and the will save DC required to leave increasing +1 per level... OK, cloaks of resistance exist but you're still less likely to make the save to end the rage at level 20 than you are at level 1.


Yes, all valid points, trox is still fun to theory craft though :P.

I wanted to dip titan mauler or something, but you only increase by 3 sizes at 20.

Note that resizing armor is a must on them as well.


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avr wrote:
Trox are one of those races with no-its-not-really-LA +2, i.e. a trox shifter 18 is supposed to be equivalent to a human shifter 20. Just make your rageshaper an orc or something.

Don't wanna derail but just as a correction, the suggested APL modifiers for strong races lessen as levels increase. i.e. trox shifter 1 might be compared to a human shifter 3, but trox shifter 10 is compared to a human shifter 11 and by 20 the numbers don't matter enough to really be counted anymore.


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Any suggestions for multiclassing? I'm not sure how to even approach this one.


I like Oozemorph builds which bail from the class after 4 or 6 levels (6 is my preference since it enables you to be bipedal 18 hours a day). After level 6 take multiattack and go brawler so you can twf with your fists then multiattack with morphic weapons. One AomF applies to all of your (many) attacks.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I like Oozemorph builds which bail from the class after 4 or 6 levels (6 is my preference since it enables you to be bipedal 18 hours a day). After level 6 take multiattack and go brawler so you can twf with your fists then multiattack with morphic weapons. One AomF applies to all of your (many) attacks.

I'm waiting for them to 'look over' the class and hopefully fix the ambiguity.

Right now, I can't see using the class without a race that can independently change shape. Kitsune, Reptoid, skinwalker and Rougarou.


Works fine for Oozemorphs who pop into existence after level 6 though. I feel like that's a reasonable context in which to play one.

Other multiclassing suggestions: an elementalist might want to pick up better weapon proficiencies and perhaps heavy armor proficiency (for those dwarves who want stoneplate). I think an elementalist with a reach weapon and combat reflexes could be fun, since your AoOs get the same elemental damage boosts.


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For multiclassing I'd stick to pure martial classes (if you wanted to be a spell casting shapeshifter why aren't you a druid).

My suggestions below are for dips, doing dips for more than 3 levels is bad as you miss out on the last damage increase for claws, 1 level dips tend to be better. I'm not getting into archetype based dips like mutagenic warrior (which is great for str based builds).

Monk gets you 2 bonus feats used for the grapple builds, and is a nice dip. You lose 1 BAB.

Fighter gets you proficiency with heavy armor, tower shields, simple and martial weapons, and a bonus feat. This is a nice dip for weapon based builds.

Barbarian gets you rage (although your rounds per day will be low), simple and martial weapon proficiency, fast movement, uncanny dodge, and a rage power.

Cavalier gets you a mount, all armor proficiency, simple and martial weapon proficiency and an order.

Gunslingers gets you simple, martial, and firearms proficiency.

Rogue (and by rogue I mean unchained rogue, as no one should ever play core rogue unless they really don't mind shooting themselves in the foot and gimping them self) gets you the ability to disable magical traps, a minor amount of sneak attack damage, dex to damage with claws, weapon finesse, evasion and danger sense. (this is pretty much the only dip worth going 3 levels into). You do miss out on 1 BAB though.

Paladin gets you heavy armor proficiency, simple and martial weapon proficiency, smite evil, detect evil, CHA to saves. Overall it really makes you more MAD and isn't worth dipping into.

Ranger gets you simple and martial weapon proficiency, wild empathy, favored enemy, track, combat style feat (natural weapons, i'd go rending claws). You can also get endurance and favored terrain, but 2 levels is the optimal dip for ranger.

Bloodrager gets you simple and martial weapon proficiency, bloodline, bloodline powers fast movement, uncanny dodge, bloodrage.

Slayer gets you simple and martial weapon proficiency, studied target, track, slayer talent (ranger combat style natural weapons) and 1d6 sneak attack.

Skald gets you simple and martial weapon proficiency, Bardic knowledge, cantrips, inspired rage +1 (+2 Str/Con), raging song, scribe scroll, Versatile performance, well-versed, 2 1st level spells. You also lose 1 BAB.

Brawler gets you simple and close weapon proficiency, Brawler’s cunning, martial flexibility, martial training, unarmed strike, Bonus combat feat, brawler’s flurry.

Warpriest gets you simple and martial weapon proficiency, heavy armor proficiency, Aura, blessings (minor), focus weapon, orisons, sacred weapon, fervor 1d6, and a bonus feat. You lose 1 BAB.

Hunter gets you simple and martial weapon proficiency, Animal companion, animal focus, nature training, orisons, wild empathy, Precise companion, track, Hunter tactics, teamwork feat, and some 1st level spells. you lose 1 BAB.

Swashbucker gets you simple and martial weapon proficiency, weapon finesse, some deeds (notably opportune parry and riposte), and the wasted ability of using CHA to add a bonus to rolls and in place of INT for feats. Parry is nice though.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Works fine for Oozemorphs who pop into existence after level 6 though. I feel like that's a reasonable context in which to play one.

While that makes it more workable, it still leaves you with times you're an unmoving blob. A night raid while your sleeping in a bucket leaves you hoping an enemy comes within range of your attacks [or a companion carries/throws you]. Without a backup movement ability, I'd be wary of playing one under 8th.

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Other multiclassing suggestions: an elementalist might want to pick up better weapon proficiencies and perhaps heavy armor proficiency (for those dwarves who want stoneplate). I think an elementalist with a reach weapon and combat reflexes could be fun, since your AoOs get the same elemental damage boosts.

Yep, dwarves have a good selection of reach weapons, along with the boulder helmet for close in and a nice one handed option with good damage.

For a reach/combat reflex build though, an elf [or human with Adoptive Parentage/racial heritage] and an Elven branched spear might work out better.

Both require martial weapons [or exotic weapon prof].


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willuwontu wrote:

For multiclassing I'd stick to pure martial classes (if you wanted to be a spell casting shapeshifter why aren't you a druid).

My suggestions below are for dips, doing dips for more than 3 levels is bad as you miss out on the last damage increase for claws, 1 level dips tend to be better. I'm not getting into archetype based dips like mutagenic warrior (which is great for str based builds).

Monk gets you 2 bonus feats used for the grapple builds, and is a nice dip. You lose 1 BAB.

Fighter gets you proficiency with heavy armor, tower shields, simple and martial weapons, and a bonus feat. This is a nice dip for weapon based builds.

Barbarian gets you rage (although your rounds per day will be low), simple and martial weapon proficiency, fast movement, uncanny dodge, and a rage power.

Cavalier gets you a mount, all armor proficiency, simple and martial weapon proficiency and an order.

Gunslingers gets you simple, martial, and firearms proficiency.

Rogue (and by rogue I mean unchained rogue, as no one should ever play core rogue unless they really don't mind shooting themselves in the foot and gimping them self) gets you the ability to disable magical traps, a minor amount of sneak attack damage, dex to damage with claws, weapon finesse, evasion and danger sense. (this is pretty much the only dip worth going 3 levels into). You do miss out on 1 BAB though.

Paladin gets you heavy armor proficiency, simple and martial weapon proficiency, smite evil, detect evil, CHA to saves. Overall it really makes you more MAD and isn't worth dipping into.

Ranger gets you simple and martial weapon proficiency, wild empathy, favored enemy, track, combat style feat (natural weapons, i'd go rending claws). You can also get endurance and favored terrain, but 2 levels is the optimal dip for ranger.

Bloodrager gets you simple and martial weapon proficiency, bloodline, bloodline powers fast movement, uncanny dodge, bloodrage.

Slayer gets you simple and martial weapon proficiency, studied target, track,...

It’s times like these I wish I could favorite a comment more than once.

Scarab Sages

No Kineticist or Occultist?


What would a kineticist dip give you that's at all meaningful? Maybe an Elementalist that dips 1 level in Elemental Ascetic to get UAS and flurry plus 0 burn Kinetic Fist? I guess that's pretty okay if you didn't want armor. Bonus, I think this would work with pummeling charge, which is probably the neatest way to get pounce on an Elementalist; so that has promise.

The occultist is probably less of a good dip for the Shifter than for others, since the transmutation resonant power doesn't stack with your minor aspects which grant enhancement bonuses, and you're giving up a BAB. Still, the resonant power lets you move the bonus around, so that's handy. Battle Host would let you start with Stoneplate and have proficiency in martial weapons, so that has promise.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
What would a kineticist dip give you that's at all meaningful?

OOzemorph and Elemental Ascetic. Gets wis to AC and a +1d6 damage to attacks. At least it's some AC as an ooze.

Elementalist and Elemental Ascetic. +1d6 damage to unarmed/natural weapons.

Elementalist and Kinetic Knight: kinetic blade form infusion for two handed weapon fun with 1 level.

Scarab Sages

Kinetic Fist adds damage to all natural attacks and you can use it while wild shaped. Makes a single level dip for Elemental Ascetic pretty good for any Shifter.


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You deserve some serious appreciation, Variel. Managing to update this guide so frequently, while the Shifter class is undergoing changes, is really commendable.


graystone wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Works fine for Oozemorphs who pop into existence after level 6 though. I feel like that's a reasonable context in which to play one.

While that makes it more workable, it still leaves you with times you're an unmoving blob. A night raid while your sleeping in a bucket leaves you hoping an enemy comes within range of your attacks [or a companion carries/throws you]. Without a backup movement ability, I'd be wary of playing one under 8th.

Actually they changed that you have a moving speed.

Plus, who is looking in the bucket for you?


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Starbuck_II wrote:
Actually they changed that you have a moving speed.

While the FAQ fixed the land speed issue, that blob might want to still spend your time in the bucket for the cover bonus: you can't wear armor but that bucket will work. ;)

PS: I think one of the coolest ideas is a backpack kobold oozmorph [20 lbs] that lives in an armored backpack and attacks out of the slots/holes while it keeps full cover.

Starbuck_II wrote:
Plus, who is looking in the bucket for you?

Even bad guys have to go to the bathroom... :P

On a serious note, trained animals [or those living near humanoids] might look at it thinking it has food in it. Rust monsters or termites. Any bigger monsters that isn't avoiding the bucket with it's huge feet... [like an elephant stepping on a man-sized ball of chewing gum in a bucket].


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graystone wrote:
PS: I think one of the coolest ideas is a backpack kobold oozmorph [20 lbs] that lives in an armored backpack and attacks out of the slots/holes while it keeps full cover.

Really just need some way for the oozemorph to get reach on its morphic weapons and all sorts of silly things become possible.

Why doesn't the oozemorph ever get reach? I mean, I suppose lunge works, but fighters who aren't protoplasmic get that and you should be able to stretch some. If you can shape part of your person into an morningstar, you should be able to also make a long sharp stick.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
graystone wrote:
PS: I think one of the coolest ideas is a backpack kobold oozmorph [20 lbs] that lives in an armored backpack and attacks out of the slots/holes while it keeps full cover.

Really just need some way for the oozemorph to get reach on its morphic weapons and all sorts of silly things become possible.

Why doesn't the oozemorph ever get reach? I mean, I suppose lunge works, but fighters who aren't protoplasmic get that and you should be able to stretch some. If you can shape part of your person into an morningstar, you should be able to also make a long sharp stick.

Several feats can get you reach....I already have those in my build :P


Since the Oozemorph can now attune items, how does this change the list of magic items they want on them?


So, I noticed that a lot of the builds have 16 wis, and suggest Mutated Shape with a headband of +2 wis, but don't ever increase wis anywhere else. However, the feat requires 19 wis, which means the shifter is still too low.

Also, the weretouched build recommends heavy armor proficiency at 1, but heavy armor is very expensive even before needing non-metal speial material versions - it should be moved to a little later to reflect that.


james014Aura wrote:

So, I noticed that a lot of the builds have 16 wis, and suggest Mutated Shape with a headband of +2 wis, but don't ever increase wis anywhere else. However, the feat requires 19 wis, which means the shifter is still too low.

Also, the weretouched build recommends heavy armor proficiency at 1, but heavy armor is very expensive even before needing non-metal speial material versions - it should be moved to a little later to reflect that.

Lamellar (stone) is 500gp... That's not exactly expensive, let alone 'very' expensive. NO "non-metal speial material" needed.


I meant, very expensive for a first-level character, sorry.

EDIT: Though I missed Stone Lamellar, which is still way beyond 1st level and is pricey for 2nd - 3rd level minimum feels far more likely.


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GodsBlister wrote:
Since the Oozemorph can now attune items, how does this change the list of magic items they want on them?

For one thing. It causes there to be a list of magic items that you want for them. XD


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james014Aura wrote:

So, I noticed that a lot of the builds have 16 wis, and suggest Mutated Shape with a headband of +2 wis, but don't ever increase wis anywhere else. However, the feat requires 19 wis, which means the shifter is still too low.

Also, the weretouched build recommends heavy armor proficiency at 1, but heavy armor is very expensive even before needing non-metal speial material versions - it should be moved to a little later to reflect that.

That's an error on my part. Didn't intend to specify the wrong tier belt.


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james014Aura wrote:
I meant, very expensive for a first-level character, sorry.

The thing is, the shifter doesn't get another feat until 3rd so it has to count as expensive before then. If they can afford it at 2nd then it's a viable option.

Secondly, you can pick up traits that boost starting cash.
Chosen Child, Rich Parents, Signature Moves allow a masterwork set of stone lamellar at 1st.

Now I'm not arguing the effectiveness of the heavy armor feat at level 1-2, just that it's usable at those levels.


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I made this ungodly monstrocity based on the fact that RAW Shifter's Claws give the shifter "...claws on each hand...", so long as you don't use it in wild shape. No one in their right mind would let someone have this at their table.

Kasatha Base Form Shifter:

Abilities (20 Point Buy):
Str: 18 (+4), Dex: 14 [12+2] (+2), Con: 12 (+1), Int: 10 (+0), Wis: 13 (+1), Cha: 8 (-1)

Options:
Race: Kasatha
Alternate Racial Traits: –
Favored Class Bonus: +1 Hit Point
Archetype: –
Traits: Mother’s Teeth and Reactionary
Important Items: A good suit of armor

Shifter Aspect:
1. Bull
5. Tiger
10. Bear
15. Falcon
20. Mouse

Feats:
1. Power Attack
3. Weapon Focus (claws)
5. Improved Natural Attack (claw)
7. Athletic
9. Totemic Initiate (lesser beast totem)
11. Totemic Disciple (beast totem)
13. Totemic Master (greater beast totem)
15. Improved Initiative
17. Iron Will
19. Multiattack

Ability Score Increases:
4. +1 Str
8. +1 Str
12. +1 Str
16. +1 Str
20. +1 Str


Archmage Variel wrote:
GodsBlister wrote:
Since the Oozemorph can now attune items, how does this change the list of magic items they want on them?
For one thing. It causes there to be a list of magic items that you want for them. XD

Fair enough, though I'm just curious because I'm new to grabbing items for martials and just didn't think they'd errata that tidbit. So now I'm flooded with options and have no idea if they're worth it.


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GodsBlister wrote:
Archmage Variel wrote:
GodsBlister wrote:
Since the Oozemorph can now attune items, how does this change the list of magic items they want on them?
For one thing. It causes there to be a list of magic items that you want for them. XD
Fair enough, though I'm just curious because I'm new to grabbing items for martials and just didn't think they'd errata that tidbit. So now I'm flooded with options and have no idea if they're worth it.

I'm honestly in the same boat, and trying to run over in my head the different magic item options that might be able to bring it close to par to the average shifter.


Good news is they can't take wild shape feats. So you don't need to worry about a Wisdom score aside from a Will save. Definitely AoMF, because why wouldn't you take the murder trinket. Otherwise I don't know.


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GodsBlister wrote:
Good news is they can't take wild shape feats. So you don't need to worry about a Wisdom score aside from a Will save. Definitely AoMF, because why wouldn't you take the murder trinket. Otherwise I don't know.

This is "good news"? It becomes another thing that doesn't mesh well with the shifter.


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That was heavy sarcasm. I think that there should have been a clarifying sentence for the Oozemorph like the base Shifter got regarding wild shape. Either way it's not much we can do aside from bring it up in the dev thread. For now we just try our damned best to make the most of this gooey trash fire.


avr wrote:

@willuwontu: Throat slicer lets you deliver a coup de grace when you've got an enemy pinned. Which sounds good but your damage is low enough that it could easily fail (Fort save DC ~ 17 when you first get it). Which would be embarrassing, besides losing the pin when you do so.

Maybe a different feat to help with grappling would be better? Kraken style, or claw wrench, or something. Possibly moving piranha strike to L3 and taking the extra feat later.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but Throat Slicer reduces a coup de grace to a standard action.


--Kharn-- wrote:
avr wrote:

@willuwontu: Throat slicer lets you deliver a coup de grace when you've got an enemy pinned. Which sounds good but your damage is low enough that it could easily fail (Fort save DC ~ 17 when you first get it). Which would be embarrassing, besides losing the pin when you do so.

Maybe a different feat to help with grappling would be better? Kraken style, or claw wrench, or something. Possibly moving piranha strike to L3 and taking the extra feat later.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but Throat Slicer reduces a coup de grace to a standard action.

Noticed, but the character build in question gets throat slicer well before greater grapple. Until you can maintain the grapple as a move action you will lose it when performing either a standard or a full round action.


Gotcha


So if I read the FAQ correctly shifting into Dire Tiger form now grants you a +6 Natural Armor bonus as in the Dire Tigers statblock?

That seems really good...


Alex Mack wrote:

So if I read the FAQ correctly shifting into Dire Tiger form now grants you a +6 Natural Armor bonus as in the Dire Tigers statblock?

That seems really good...

FAQ: "You still only get the listed abilities plus size-dependent effects (size bonuses and penalties and any natural armor)"

Beast Shape II: "Large animal: If the form you take is that of a Large animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a -2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus."


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Firstly, thanks for the guide. I have been wanting to hear more thoughts on the Shifter class. You're doing a great job

Next, in regards to the belt slot, I normal play Barbarians. As such, it's a pretty common understanding that the extra Con given from Rage, is essentially fool's gold. It has some uses no doubt, but at the end its less useful then temporary HP. (I'd say the same thing about the Wolverine aspect as well)

The Bear minor aspect seems to have this same effect, nice for battle but still temporary HPwise. As such, I think the Belt of Mighty Constitution would be a good addition to the Belts list.

The other two physical stats of course you can get from your aspects, but even then putting it all on a belt would then free you up to take other minor aspect bonuses and diversify your abilities while still keeping your stat bonuses. This is of course based on the idea that you won't be need the major forms as yoru main means of attack.

With this in mind, I think the Belt of Physical Might could be bumped up to green or blue as well.

Love to hear your thoughts.

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