Phantoms and their Appearance


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So, with a brief online search, I can find no definitive answer to this question: when a Phantom is manifested in Ectoplasmic form, or even in Incorporeal, does it look 'human' in terms of colour and such? I know they have auras and the like, and I've seen the official iconic art, but other art shows one wearing normally coloured clothes with a greenish tint to the skin.

As a game mechanic that other PCs NPCs interact with, if the phantom is a monochromatic lump, it makes it almost impossible to have it out when in an urban setting, which seems... Unnecessarily crippling. As opposed to an Eidolon that could be seen as a strange pet or some such, I mean.


Since it's not defined completely defined it's up to the DM what their exact appearance is but reading any of the emotional effects on appearance they are obviously not human (or whatever they were in life) anymore. I would rule they look akin to the iconic's phantom.

Summoner (Unchained) wrote:
The eidolon’s physical appearance is up to the summoner, but it always appears as some sort of fantastical creature appropriate to its subtype. This control is not fine enough to make the eidolon appear like a specific creature. The eidolon also bears a glowing rune that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner’s forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned.

An eidolon probably won't look like just a strange pet without being disguised. (Interestingly due to the way rules are written it may be easier to disguise a phantom as living than an eidolon as a normal animal since phantoms can hide it with just magic.) While the average commoner won't know it's an eidolon, they will know it's some kind of magical beast. It'll draw eyes in an urban setting just as quickly as a 6' green ethereal man in full plate.

In neither case is it impossible to have one out unless the city laws forbid such creatures. In which case an eidolon is more likely to draw ire since they may look like a devil or angel which are highly unpopular in Andoran and Cheliax respectively. They probably aren't any more unsettling than the barbarian with the giant-sized sword on her back or the wayang with giant raven wings on his.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

My main question was despite Eidolons being depicted in numerous ways we've only really seen one or two phantoms in art, so we don't seem to have good visuals for a wide variety. Also, they aren't a normal person, but for example a desire phantom would need to look appealing to even function as it's intended focus.

Also, what about Zeitgeists? Clearly a different being so in theory it wouldn't look like a ghost, as it isn't born from a dead soul. Right?


Since the only two official pieces of phantoms I can find, the iconic Estra and the unnamed Ghost Rider, show etherial monochromatic figures.

Just because a phantom doesn't look like a normal doesn't mean it can't be attractive. A lust phantom may be an unearthly beauty with proportions of an idealized nature, be it ancient fertility goddess or only achievable with plastic surgery. Not to mention they are described to give constantly give off pheromones like [simile redacted to attempt to retain a semblance of good taste].

A Zeitgeist wouldn't need to be ethereal and may pass as a standard humanoid more easily assuming they look humanoid at all. (That said they are still made of ectoplasm so take that into account.)
A Zeitgeist is most likely to appear as an archetype associated with the aspect they are created from and likely influenced by the perceptions of the people it draws its power from as well as the settlement's history and folklore. This archetype could be a famous person in the settlement's history, which may or may not appear ghostly, or a fictional person from folklore, which is less likely to appear ghostly. A law Zeitgeist may look like a golden Abadar (or his herald) if created by a settlement with a large number of Abadar worshipers, a devil surrounded by a flurry of contracts with shackles hanging from it belt might be one created by Cheliaxians, or it could look like a beautiful woman in a toga and blindfold while holding a set of scales that Andorians might create. In any of these cases, they will be the ideal of the aspect of the city so it may still draw eyes.

Do note this is a high magic world. One of the AP's has the potential for one of the PC's to get their soul placed in a duplicate body of a well known ancient ruler's body. Most people that recognize it assume the identical appearance is due to using magic for vanity or madness reasons and thus move on without comment. This is probably the same case for most Zeitgeist.


Phantom (has a few pictures).


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Latrans, I really like your take.

My question was essentially to solve the issue of 'what do the NPCs see'.

I'm running Crimson Throne (the updated version) with my fiance as a two-person gestalt game, and so far its been amazing. Finished part one, well on our way to part two, etc.

The big issue was: I'm Spiritualist/Fighter and she's an Alley Witch/Urban Ranger, and both the Alley Witch and Zeitgeist Binder take their power from the minds and collective consciousness of the settlement (Korvosa) and so we've sort of house-ruled that my Phantom is the embodiment of her Patron, or at least the same force. but what does she look like?! (I'm thinking a more mature, sultry Illeosa, to make her majesty even more jealous)

Do you think it's beyond the realm of the rules to assume that a Zeitgeist in Ectoplasmic form would be able to appear humanoid, if an unusually lusty humanoid, to the point of being able to walk around without being seen as 'look an obvious ghost is right there'? That's been my big hangup. And in Incorporeal form, I've been ruling her to appear solid until interacted with, in which case her essence flows like incense smoke... I'm not necessarily big on the monochromatic flat-colour Phantom as making sense for the Zeitgeist, since it is inherently a different kind of entity. I do try to keep even home games as close to the rules as possible. Does this seem like it makes sense given the parameters? Should NPCs be able to behave normally while interacting or should they immediately call a paladin because a ghost is stalking the heroes?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
UnArcaneElection wrote:

Phantom (has a few pictures).

See, that Azlanti Phantom image is what I like. That's all just ectoplasm, I assume, but in full colour. Is that normal? I don't know. I feel like they didn't give ectoplasm enough description for detail-heavy types my like stupid self.


Overall your ruling make sense. Especially as a Zeitgeist, she should be able to pass as human as long as nobody starts looking to close because she starts acting strangely. (If that does happen she may want a hat of disguise.) I like the incense and smoke for the incorporeal form when interacted with although I'd think she may take that appearance anytime she's incorporeal but at that point, she may be able to hide as a cloud of perfume coming off the Spiritualist.

As a Zeitgeist, she may look like a famous queen of Korvosa's past at the height of her beauty and popularity. Illeosa is fairly new to the throne so she won't have as strong a connection to the city as a past queen might. (And seeing a seductive imagery of a predecessor that is more beloved than she is would probably also make her jealous.)

For what you've said, she sounds like a lust phantom. Which aspect of Korvosa does she represent with the Zeitgeist part? Law, Lore, and Society would all make sense for her to look like a former queen.


Virellius wrote:
{. . .} And in Incorporeal form, I've been ruling her to appear solid until interacted with, in which case her essence flows like incense smoke... {. . .}

Suddenly, I have a vision of Joi in Blade Runner 2049 . . . .


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Latrans wrote:

Overall your ruling make sense. Especially as a Zeitgeist, she should be able to pass as human as long as nobody starts looking to close because she starts acting strangely. (If that does happen she may want a hat of disguise.) I like the incense and smoke for the incorporeal form when interacted with although I'd think she may take that appearance anytime she's incorporeal but at that point, she may be able to hide as a cloud of perfume coming off the Spiritualist.

As a Zeitgeist, she may look like a famous queen of Korvosa's past at the height of her beauty and popularity. Illeosa is fairly new to the throne so she won't have as strong a connection to the city as a past queen might. (And seeing a seductive imagery of a predecessor that is more beloved than she is would probably also make her jealous.)

For what you've said, she sounds like a lust phantom. Which aspect of Korvosa does she represent with the Zeitgeist part? Law, Lore, and Society would all make sense for her to look like a former queen.

Lust is correct.

I had originally thought Corruption, and the Ileosa bit fitting in as her being viewed so negatively by the populace, so suddenly and with such fervor, that the zeitgeist latched onto these new and spontaneous feelings. Corruption due to the queens own illegal activity and the rioting/anarchy, which are inherently unlawful.

The more I think about it, however, the more I'm leaning towards retraining to Law. Especially since the party goal is to save the city that's chosen them as it's heroes.


I can see why a corruption zeitgeist would take Ileosa’s form. Her ascension to the throne when her husband died did spark an attempted rebellion due to the circumstances of his death that may have caused people to associate her with corruption.

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