Why I cant make progress in Pathfinder Society?


Pathfinder Society

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Ive played about 50 games in Pathfinder Society, 3 in Starfinder Society, and about 30 in Adventure Society.

I do not do well in them. In the Pathfinder Adventure I actually managed to complete a whole the Skulls and Shackles adventure path. In Pathfinder Society I have a lot of level 1 and 2 characters.

There are many problems basically trying to keep everything balanced but without the homebrew possibilities to have freedom.

#1 Prestige. Prestige is a campaign resource used as either a shortcut to purchase items but is more useful for things otherwise unavailable in the Pathfinder Society Campaign, namely retraining and character resurrection. Prestige cost for anything is massive and the gain rate is a trickle.

#2 Lack of options. No crafting, no negotiation unless combat encounters allow it which seems to be no way to avoid fights, no ways to earn "extra" gold or prestige, or just keep items found.

leading to the following:
#3 Fragile Flower syndrome.
Its not possible for my teammates to resurrect me as Breath of Life and Raise Dead are only gained level 9 and 11, respectively.

Also according to the Society rules they cant go to a temple and have a higher level npc Cleric do it.

So gameplay has to be low risk.

#4 Race to the finish line.
Rewards are based on scenario competition, though there are some secondary objectives but never anything awesome like a free +1-5 Flaming Longsword, just one more prestige point. Trying to be non-linear is unrewarded.
Unless you make a character capable of doing everything youre going to be doing a lot of nothing. Games are more often about completing in the shortest time so maybe do another one on the same day.

#5 Forced min-maxing of characters.
I want to make interesting characters but the Adventure scenarios range between heavy skills or heavy combat. Depending on class its easy to be in a situation where I am useless because i didnt bring the right character for the scenario. Theoretically I could create a character able to do well in multiple roles. In practice I still need high AC, hit bonuses and damage for combat, and high skills points most likely from the class itself, and after that maybe I still have room for some fun.
====================
Win every scenario, get as much gold and prestige as possible, save prestige for emergency resurrections.

The Campaign is an uncomfortable place between roleplaying and roll-playing. Its harder than an average homebrew but doesnt have typical videogame aspects like simple resurrections if you ever die or shortcuts to have large amounts of money and equipment.

Im stuck trying to make sure every scenario I play A doesnt have my character killed, B get all the rewards, and C try to find some way to have a perfect character that can do everything in every scenario so Im not a load.

Everything I hear about homebrews Im not able to play sound amazing. Laid back, friendly, and free. Just the amount of possible options to get around every problem so the game doesnt have to be perfect.

Silver Crusade 1/5 5/5

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What scenarios are you playing...?

In my experience Pathfinder Society / Starfinder Society is painfully easy. I mostly GM (10 games with PF and 8 with SF, so I'm not SUPER experienced) and I can still count on one hand the amount of players I've downed (with no where near a risk of death with the wealth of healing items at the players' disposal) and I had only one character death (due to a ridiculous set of rolls but the player was only playing a stand in pregen character for a group of 3 and didn't have a registered character).

I also might suggest that if you stuck with a character beyond level 1 or 2 you'll find yourself able to progress. I'm not trying to be factitious here but I think part of your problem is not committing to your characters.

I do agree that the lack of options can be really restrictive, but a good GM will improvise ways to allow for other options to work. As for the non-linear complaint, well, sadly Society scenarios aren't the place to go off the rails.

Finally with point 4, I think the point of a scenario is to have fun. If you or your group are looking at it as a way to farm experience or loot then I don't think you're going into Society play with the right mindset. The whole idea is to have a good time, not get the most loot.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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2. Unless the scenario specifically says how Diplomacy works in an encounter, the normal rules apply. Pathfinder RPG rules, starting with the time required to make the check, make it very difficult to negotiate with an NPC who intends to attack you or who your party is currently fighting.

3. Your party can go to a temple (if the GM agrees that one exists in the adventure location) and have an NPC cleric raise your character, using either your gold and Prestige or their own cash. Did you mean you wanted to be raised without paying for it?

4. Not contributing to completing the Society's objectives detracts from your rewards from the Society. Maybe you could make characters whose goals coincide with the Society's, rather than those who would rather be non-linear.

Nothing prevents the game organiser from allowing longer to play a scenario if required, but it seems they disagree with your assessment of time needed.

5. I don't know if I have met you or seen how you play. Very likely not. It sounds to me as if the parties you are in don't cooperate very well to make use of everyone's abilities. Is there anything in the way you design or play your characters that can improve that?

1/5

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Shadow Lodge 4/5

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This again? (Aka dotting)

Scarab Sages 5/5

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Pretty much. Same guy, same complaints. Only difference is it's the month after last.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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ChaosTicket wrote:
Ive played about 50 games in Pathfinder Society, 3 in Starfinder Society, and about 30 in Adventure Society.

May I make a suggestion?

Give your characters names.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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ChaosTicket wrote:

Ive played about 50 games in Pathfinder Society, 3 in Starfinder Society, and about 30 in Adventure Society.

I do not do well in them.

When someone's done 1, 2, or just a handful of PFS games and reports a negative experience, I usually tell them to give it another chance.

But if you've done 50+, and you're not enjoying yourself, maybe PFS isn't for you.

Grand Lodge 2/5

ChaosTicket wrote:
#1 Prestige. Prestige is a campaign resource used as either a shortcut to purchase items but is more useful for things otherwise unavailable in the Pathfinder Society Campaign, namely retraining and character resurrection. Prestige cost for anything is massive and the gain rate is a trickle.

You can get a level 1 wand of any legal spell for 2 prestige. I'd consider that both not a massive amount of prestige and useful.

ChaosTicket wrote:
#2 Lack of options. No crafting, no negotiation unless combat encounters allow it which seems to be no way to avoid fights, no ways to earn "extra" gold or prestige, or just keep items found.

Classes with crafting built into their core class design like alchemist and gunslinger actually do get to craft. Alchemist gets to craft alchemical items and gunslinger gets to craft it's ammo (i.e. you pay half price)

ChaosTicket wrote:

Fragile Flower syndrome.

Its not possible for my teammates to resurrect me as Breath of Life and Raise Dead are only gained level 9 and 11, respectively.

Also according to the Society rules they cant go to a temple and have a higher level npc Cleric do it.

So gameplay has to be low risk.

Well actually you can use prestige for raise dead if you have enough. If you die at low level you're screwed sure. But how is that different than other games? Clerics don't raise dead for free. There's always a cost for spellcasting services.

Also you should look up First Aid gloves. Cheap item that provides breath of life far before 9th level

ChaosTicket wrote:

#4 Race to the finish line.

Rewards are based on scenario competition, though there are some secondary objectives but never anything awesome like a free +1-5 Flaming Longsword, just one more prestige point. Trying to be non-linear is unrewarded.
Unless you make a character capable of doing everything youre going to be doing a lot of nothing. Games are more often about completing in the shortest time so maybe do another one on the same day.

Organized Play balances your wealth by just giving you the correct amount of gold for your level rather than handing out items for free. This way they can make sure you're around the appropriate gold level and someone doesn't get way above someone else wealth-wise because they happened to play a scenario containing "a cool sword". Never played a game that was about completing it in the shortest amount of time so maybe that's just a local thing for you?

And man, your experience with being non-linear being unrewarded is soooo different from mine. I finished an entire scenario in 90 minutes once because we skipped most of the encounters with good bluff checks convincing the enemies that we were working for their boss.

I don't share your experience with doing nothing. My barbarian with 7 charisma is always engaged even in the RP and social encounters where he's not the one doing the rolling.

ChaosTicket wrote:


#5 Forced min-maxing of characters.
I want to make interesting characters but the Adventure scenarios range between heavy skills or heavy combat. Depending on class its easy to be in a situation where I am useless because i didnt bring the right character for the scenario. Theoretically I could create a character able to do well in multiple roles. In practice I still need high AC, hit bonuses and damage for combat, and high skills points most likely from the class itself, and after that maybe I still have room for some fun.

Yeah no, just no. You don't have to do everything at all. You can absolutely specialize in one area and be fine. But the one thing that you need to do is make sure your character can contribute in some way both in combat and outside of it since Pathfinders have to deal with combat fairly regularly. That really doesn't require any min/maxing at all.


I dont know if every Pathfinder Society group is like mine. I dont know exactly what scenario will be played or more important what is needed, and what each person will bring, or who will even be there.

That puts pressure on me to be the "fill in" player that changes my character to whatever is needed because nobody picked a healer, or a skillmonkey. Or alternatively one character able to do multiple roles.

I am focused around crafting as well accelerated money and experience as some characters dont "start" until they gain a key spell, ability or piece of equipment. For example Dexterity characters really need Agile weapons or Amulets immediately, but 8000gold for one weapon is going take take a while..

The stability scores needs can be very painful for any hybrid class. a Wizard most needs a high mental stat(intelligence). a Fighter needs a high physical stat(strength). a Magus requires both physical and mental stats.

Basically I need an character that can survive anything, fit in any group, and I actually like playing. I just keep entering headache inducing loops of having an impossible goal.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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chaos ticket wrote:
I just keep entering headache inducing loops of having an impossible goal.

You're letting perfection be the enemy of the good.

You want perfection, a well oiled machine, and perfect class balance and team work to absolutely ensure victory.

That is not the play environment. Adapt.

You are sitting down with a random bag of mixed nuts. Take a character you like, take a wand of CLW and or infernal healing with you into the dungeon and try to come back alive. You should succeed most of the time.
Enough to level up anyway.

2/5

I guess ChaosTicket Society will use 25-Point Buy and the players can use whatever stat they want for abilities, which are all gained earlier?

It sounds appealing, but it also sounds like you want 5th Edition with Magic Crafting and more Proficiencies.

5/5 *** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

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Ticket, how many times are you going to create the same topic, expecting to get different responses from last time? Either you really don't get it, or you're a troll, and in either case we can't help you. And yet I can't resist the urge to reply.

No home campaign I've been in has allowed crafting except for one, and there I didn't feel like it added much.

I'm going to cherry-pick a few quotes and reply to them:

Its harder than an average homebrew but doesnt have typical videogame aspects like simple resurrections if you ever die or shortcuts to have large amounts of money and equipment.

PFS (or PF in general) isn't a videogame. Stop trying to make it one. There is no "reload button" when your adventure goes awry. The very concept of a roleplaying game is living with the outcome of your decisions. In a home game if you die at level 3, there's no way of recovering you, either, unless your GM is really generous. If anything, PFS makes this easier by adding a second currency (prestige points) to do that with. And for the umpteenth time, the "extra money" is already calculated. PFS goes much faster on a wealth by level basis than home games. You can buy a Belt of Headband of +2 by level 4. You're lucky to get that by level 6 in an adventure path. Also, day jobs are a small amount of money, but still worth it for small items. Also, realise that this is done for game balance. If a character can afford a +3 sword at level 3, all the balance goes out of the window.

The stability scores needs can be very painful for any hybrid class. a Wizard most needs a high mental stat(intelligence). a Fighter needs a high physical stat(strength). a Magus requires both physical and mental stats.

Yes, you need to make a decision. And yes, some classes have it easier. But a Magus has to make a choice. You can't have it both ways. I've seen some Magi with high stats in both, but with severely gimped other stats.

Basically I need an character that can survive anything, fit in any group, and I actually like playing.

No, that's where you're simply wrong. You can't (or shouldn't be able to) solo Pathfinder. It's a team game. You can't be expected to carry everything. That's what you have teammates for. The nature of PFS can make that a little more difficult, as you don't always know who you sign up with, but I can tell you that it's survivable. I've had parties without Detect Magic, Diplomacy, or knowledge skills. That sucks, but those are in the vast minority. But still, the game is designed to not be good at everything. A blaster Wizard is crap against things with spell resistance or elemental resistances. Rogues bite the dust against non-flankable opponents. Ranged characters hate tiny rooms. And melee monsters get shot to death if the map's too big. Several of my "best" characters have flaws. My Shaman is a control monster, but needs his allies to actually deal damage. My Barbarian is made out of AC, but doesn't have a way to really deal with ranged strategies or touch attacks.

Also, prestige points are pretty easily gained. Unless you have a really weird party or really bad luck, 2 PP is almost guaranteed, IMHO. I've received full PP in over three-quarters of my games. If you're consistently not getting PP, you're either grabbing the wrong scenarios (there are unfair ones) or simply screwing up.

Silver Crusade 1/5 Contributor

I occasionally struggle with point buy - I was recently working on a gillman medium build that's going to be kinda rough in practice. And I just never have enough Int to get all my desired skills. But that's the nature of the game.


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I'd like to further echo what the other's before has said; PFS is supposed to be a team based game, not a solo mission. Perhaps a way to avoid headaches would be to talk to your group before the game and see who they are running as before you make your decision?

5/5 *****

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More of the same old same old nonsense. Are we going to get the same post every month?

1/5 5/5

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auTOMaTIC ThrEAd GEnerATioN DEtecTED.

Scarab Sages 5/5

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andreww wrote:
More of the same old same old nonsense. Are we going to get the same post every month?

Question really is, "Are we going to keep engaging?"

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

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Tallow wrote:
andreww wrote:
More of the same old same old nonsense. Are we going to get the same post every month?
Question really is, "Are we going to keep engaging?"

We could incorporate it into the the forum drinking game?

1/5 * RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

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I believe the issue isn't Society itself, but rather how you approach it. Here is my advice for making the most out of organized play.

1. Create a character whose goals align or run parallel with being a Pathfinder. One of my characters wanted to go treasure hunting on someone else's dime. Another is looking for his daughter. One raises prestige to gain political influence for his family. Another uses his Pathfinder career to fund his new brewery business. Don't make a character whose goals don't fit with the society. See the society as a foundation, not a straitjacket.

2. Make characters that can contribute meaningfully in multiple areas. You don't need to make a character that's good at everything, but avoid making one-trick ponies. If you make a twinked out fighter with 5 Intelligence, you're going to have a bad time. Even just spending your traits on gaining more class skills can go a long way. And if you play a melee combatant, carry a ranged weapon. Same goes for gunslingers -- carry a longbow in case you're dealing with long range foes.

3. Make characters that are fun to roleplay. Give them colorful personalities and ways of acting. Choose scenarios that really bring out their quirks.

4. Make characters that are also fun for other players. Try to create chemistry between you and other PCs. For example, my spiritualist's phantom (flavored as a grim reaper) tried to become buddies with a Pharasmin priest, who mistook him for an undead. That player had so much fun, he was disappointed when I showed up next session with a different character. If a player you barely know wants you to play a character again, this is one of the best compliments you can ever get.

5. GMs make all the difference. A good GM can make even a bad scenario fun whereas a bad GM can ruin even the best of scenarios. Search your local area and try out different events. See which GMs you like best and choose them whenever possible. And when you do find a GM you like, make sure you're the kind of player they enjoy GMing for.


Actually after some sleep I had some deep thoughts.

I play in confidence than there are ways to work past any problems in different games like Pathfinder proper without cheating. My posts on Pathfinder Society on the other hand is about trying to regain those ways which generally means not playing it because they dont exist as people keep trying to beat into me.

#1 If my character dies I can make another without resetting my progress, though with some penalties. I could be resurrected or my character replaced and my equipment could be recovered for future use either as equipment or sold off. Levels lost can be restored though Restoration spell.
#2 I dont need perfect starting statistics as I can find items to temporarily increase though spells, constantly increase though belts and headbands, or permanently increase them though Tomes and Manuals.
#3 I dont need to find the perfect class as I can retrain them if I make a mistake.
#4 There are ways to earn money and gain equipment at an above average rate, through crafting and other methods.
#5 Level caps are high or there are ways past it. I dont want my characters to retire because they cant progress anymore but rather they have reached the peak of effectiveness. If I cant think of any way to continue their storyline that would be fair. Homebrew up level 21-30. I had to ask several times if Pathfinder Society actually had scenarios above a certain level to at least reach level 20.

Without them well I need an semi-immortal character, with perfect starting statistics, all equipment needs met level 1, and knowledge of every useful future piece of equipment, spell, and feat so I dont have to "do-over".

Normally I can brush these things off, because there are the alternatives 1-4 above. I dont need to start out with an Agile weapon for every Dexterity character as I can find or buy one. I can be cautious but I dont need to have a paralyzing fear of death as I can be replaced or resurrected. I can just "fix" any problems early on by understanding the options available.

Pathfinder Society is roll-playing without the fun bits of a videogame OR a roleplaying game where you dont need them. You can have "extra lives" through prestige points but actually reaching a high cleric to resurrect people might be scenario specific as I havent seen one yet. You can buy weapons from the Pathfinder Society, but keeping what you find(without paying a large tax) or crafting your own is impossible. For me that means I focus on prestige points and gold as there arent alternatives.

Now I have an idealized view that every homebrew game is perfect and fun for everyone.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Tineke Bolleman wrote:
Tallow wrote:
andreww wrote:
More of the same old same old nonsense. Are we going to get the same post every month?
Question really is, "Are we going to keep engaging?"
We could incorporate it into the the forum drinking game?

*hic*

5/5 5/55/55/5

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ChaosTicket wrote:
Pathfinder Society is roll-playing without the fun bits of a videogame OR a roleplaying game where you dont need them.

Which bits you find fun are subjective, but Pathfinder society has as much role playing in it as your groups decide it has. If there's not enough role playing for you, that's on your individual group and something you can work on. Recent scenarios have had more social interaction than digging up artifacts.


When I do actually roleplay, its at the start of the scenario. I quickly lose steam as unless the scenario allows whatever I am trying its pointless.

So if roleplaying isnt effective what else can I do?

Try roll-playing for loot, except thats not allowed either.

Which leads to "race to the finish line". As each scenario reward is dependent on finishing the primary and secondary objective then its less about playing 5-6 hours for interesting things you can do within a scenario as to finishing as quickly as possible, and then talking to the other players.

A flaw with basing everything on the scenarios rather than GM decision. All rewards are dependent on their completion and not rewarding roleplaying is basically Railroading. Each individual scenario is just one mission in a videogame, but they are also the only way you gain gold, experience, prestige, and all the character levels and equipment from those.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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So much for getting there being half the fun...

3/5 **** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro

Kwinten Koëter wrote:
No, that's where you're simply wrong. You can't (or shouldn't be able to) solo Pathfinder. It's a team game. You can't be expected to carry everything. That's what you have teammates for. The nature of PFS can make that a little more difficult, as you don't always know who you sign up with, but I can tell you that it's survivable. I've had parties without Detect Magic, Diplomacy, or knowledge skills. That sucks, but those are in the vast minority. But still, the game is designed to not be good at everything. A blaster Wizard is crap against things with spell resistance or elemental resistances. Rogues bite the dust against non-flankable opponents. Ranged characters hate tiny rooms. And melee monsters get shot to death if the map's too big. Several of my "best" characters have flaws. My Shaman is a control monster, but needs his allies to actually deal damage. My Barbarian is made out of AC, but doesn't have a way to really deal with ranged strategies or touch attacks.

I mean he's not wrong. PFS scenarios really aren't built under the assumption that it's a pick up game meaning the best course of action is to play well rounded characters. Also, I play in one of the more populated areas and the situation in question comes up more often than you would think.

5/5 5/55/55/5

ChaosTicket wrote:
When I do actually roleplay, its at the start of the scenario. I quickly lose steam as unless the scenario allows whatever I am trying its pointless.

This is not true.

You have been told multiple times this isn't true.

You have been quoted the rule out of the guide multiple times that shows this isn't true.

So why do you keep saying it? Or at least blaming PFS for it.

Quote:
So if roleplaying isnt effective what else can I do?

Isn't effective at what?

Creative Solutions
Sometimes during the course of a scenario, your
players might surprise you with a creative solution to
an encounter (or the entire scenario) that you didn’t see
coming and that isn’t expressly covered in the scenario.
If, for example, your players manage to roleplay their
way through a combat and successfully accomplish the
goal of that encounter without killing the antagonist,
give the PCs the same reward they would have gained
had they defeated their opponent in combat.

You are explicitly allowed to solve the problems in front of you with creative play whether the scenario has a mechanism for it or not. Like any home game, its up to the DM to decide if the solution is workable. Like any game, a good DM is going to keep you from "Creatively" solving every problem so that the rest of the party doesn't feel like the BMX bandit biker gang traveling along with angel summoner.

Quote:
Try roll-playing for loot, except thats not allowed either.

But you absolutely cannot just declare your own solutions creative, brilliant, and worthy of infinite gold loops so that you have more money and gear than everyone else. Its not creative, its not fun, and its not fair to everyone that isn't well... you. You want to be able to declare your own money making scheme without the DM being able to respond in kind because they're tied up by the scenario. There is a reason that not everyone is rich, and its not because they didn't think of something or don't just work extra hard. You want to pick pocket the entire town? Eventually you're going to annoy someone out of your league and get turned into a raccoon.

Loot is a balancing part of the game. If you can't through PFS scenarios without monty hall levels of cash you need to up your game to post harks levels.

Quote:
Which leads to "race to the finish line". As each scenario reward is dependent on finishing the primary and secondary objective then its less about playing 5-6 hours for interesting things you can do within a scenario as to finishing as quickly as possible, and then talking to the other players.

No, its about realizing that you're going to get there so you stop worrying about getting there and have some fun along the way.


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Mentioned earlier is using Prestige points to gain a Wand of Cure Light Wounds at level 1, usually after 1 scenario play.

There are suggested lists in Pathfinder Society of skills and low equipment to handle all the possibilities. If you dont youre probably going to die fighting Incorporeal enemies and the like.

Points skill points into every trained skill.
Carry healing wands even if you are not a healer.

Making a well-rounded character is a good idea but every encounter is still determinate on having the highest possible stats and boosts for whatever you are trying like basic combat or in skills having enough dice being rolled. Its weird when everyone has every knowledge skill just so you have 5-7 people all capable of rolling checks when necessary.

2/5

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
chaos ticket wrote:
I just keep entering headache inducing loops of having an impossible goal.

You're letting perfection be the enemy of the good.

I like that quote.

Silver Crusade

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ChaosTicket wrote:

Mentioned earlier is using Prestige points to gain a Wand of Cure Light Wounds at level 1, usually after 1 scenario play.

There are suggested lists in Pathfinder Society of skills and low equipment to handle all the possibilities. If you dont youre probably going to die fighting Incorporeal enemies and the like.

Points skill points into every trained skill.
Carry healing wands even if you are not a healer.

Making a well-rounded character is a good idea but every encounter is still determinate on having the highest possible stats and boosts for whatever you are trying like basic combat or in skills having enough dice being rolled. Its weird when everyone has every knowledge skill just so you have 5-7 people all capable of rolling checks when necessary.

... no?


Okay had a word with the Venture-Captain.

I dont have confidence that others can wordlessly work out a plan in the scenarios. I have to compensate by trying to make characters either that can survive just about anything or can do anything with random people.

In a homebrew all those missing options would be how I bypass those problems. Use abilities to gain my own personal bodyguards, craft items to get equipment independently of the GM, and just take of myself.

People emphasize that Pathfinder is a team game, but Pathfinder Society isnt that way. There are also no ways to actully deal with pickup groups.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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*maskpalm*

Silver Crusade

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... yes it is... explicitly so. It helps if you actually try to work as a team member and not automatically think your fellow players are useless and you have to do everything yourself. Because you don’t.

Silver Crusade 1/5 Contributor

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It's beginning to sound like the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild might not be the best fit for your gaming style and preferences. ^_^

2/5

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I agree

Silver Crusade 1/5 Contributor

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Have you considered seeking out a home game? I think that would serve your needs more effectively than Pathfinder Society can.


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ChaosTicket wrote:
I dont have confidence that others can wordlessly work out a plan in the scenarios.

Well, no of course not. You need to use your words. You need to talk with the other players and work out a plan. You can do this in character, thus adding to the roleplaying in your games.

Quote:
I have to compensate by trying to make characters either that can survive just about anything or can do anything with random people.

No, you need to stop expecting everyone to be a mind reader, yourself included. You need to talk to other people and figure out how you're going to survive as a team

Quote:
In a homebrew all those missing options would be how I bypass those problems. Use abilities to gain my own personal bodyguards, craft items to get equipment independently of the GM, and just take of myself.

It sounds like you're used to home games that don't involve any teamwork.

The reason PFS seems so different from your home games is that it absolutely requires teamwork.

2/5

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As mentioned up thread. OP is a troll or literally can’t digest the solid advice given in many threads. It is fascinating in a bizarre way.

Grand Lodge

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Chaosticket:

I just played at my first con in many, many years and overall found the experience very enjoyable. Leading up to the con, our home group created PFS legal PC's at 1st Level about a year ago and we've played through 15 or so modules to get to everyone in our group to roughly the same level so we could play in the same tiers (needed to be minimum 7th level).

Our home party had no rogue and no artillery type mage, go figure. Thankfully we did have a cleric and a summoner who was willing to let his eidolon be the party's trap finder, mostly. My Druid Wolf Shaman did a lot of careful tapping with the butt of his spear traversing the many dungeons along the way... We managed to survive every module, if only just and had a great time.

At the con, the 2 GM's I played with had no trouble with creative solutions and played our adversaries sensibly and one of them even made checks for their morale (heaven forbid) when they were getting their butts whipped!

YOU do not need to be the party's saviour! YOU need to have PC's that you enjoy playing. YOU need to learn how to work with others as a team, to overcome any shortfalls in the party's class make-up. If YOUR local PFS group has GM's that only roll-play, rather than role-play YOU need to find another group or GM to show them how it's done!


Haha, funny that nobody address any of the game flaws I bring up.

I dont know if you all have the problems I have.

There isnt a steady GM to run games. The scenario levels and subjects range heavily. Seasons 1-8 are used randomly. Their difficulties vary wildly. One scenario I played had a whopping one combat in 5 hours. Another had a lot of combat with Ghouls almost killing player characters with one touch.

Players come and go, and what characters they bring are random.

This is not a steady setup. I just want to play my characters, get to level 20, and have fun while doing so. Instead Im concerned about basically removing any risk so I can the results despite the frustating circumstances.

The real problem is the incompatibility between Pathfinder, the Pathfinder Society, and a group like this. We are not a team. We are individual players at the same table. That really makes things more stressed on videogame logic. Oh am I a squishy wizard? Get a bodyguard hireling/animal companion/follower.

Actually screw it, Im just going to make every character I have an animal companion.


ChaosTicket wrote:
Pathfinder Society is roll-playing without the fun bits of a videogame OR a roleplaying game where you dont need them.

Fun is subjective. There are many different kinds*, and some people don't like some things, and that's fine. But, if you've played ~50 PFS games, and you aren't enjoying them then... why not just stop? If it isn't fun for you, why not just do something else?

* nine, at least:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepAJ-rqJKA

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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ChaosTicket wrote:
Haha, funny that nobody address any of the game flaws I bring up.

Given your posting history, what good would it do?

Grand Lodge 2/5

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Guess my post deconstructing each individual point of the OP doesn't count as a response huh?

I'm also very curious why you haven't sought out a home game if you dislike PFS so much?


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ChaosTicket wrote:
We are not a team. We are individual players at the same table.

Yep, as long as you keep playing like that, you'll keep getting the same results.

Other people play in PFS games as if they were a team. You don't

You're probably going to have more fun with Pathfinder if you don't play in PFS. Your playing style is very different from most PFS players

If you really want to make progress in PFS, then you're going to have to play as a team.


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ChaosTicket wrote:
The real problem is the incompatibility between Pathfinder, the Pathfinder Society, and a group like this. We are not a team. We are individual players at the same table.

That's how I feel about War Thunder, and World of Warships. Except that to communicate with the rest of the team, all I have there is a chat box, and I can't type particularly fast while trying to shoot and drive.

Whereas, in PFS, I'm physically at a table with other people and we have both verbal and nonverbal communication, plus it's turn-based so there's less time pressure. Really, if teamwork is failing when you play, it's because communication is failing, which in turn is at least in part down to you. I mean that you are present, and therefore have some capability to influence events.

This is not to say that there are no problems with the game, but this thing you're complaining about is at least somewhat within your power to fix... if you wanted to.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

11 people marked this as a favorite.

Gang, some treadmills are a fun and healthy form of exercise. Other treadmills can drive you insane as the same thing happens over and over with no progress other than you getting cross and exhausted. I believe this thread is the latter kind.

We can choose not to engage.

Hmm smiles, waves and leaves the thread.

3/5 **** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro

Jurassic Pratt wrote:

Guess my post deconstructing each individual point of the OP doesn't count as a response huh?

I'm also very curious why you haven't sought out a home game if you dislike PFS so much?

I mean you didn't really deconstruct the one point. As I said earlier there is a significantly large enough gap in scenario difficulty in that it gets kind of aggravating and given that he named one scenario which is pretty common in coming close to TPKing people its easy to see how you need to min-max.


ChaosTicket wrote:
Haha, funny that nobody address any of the game flaws I bring up.

People have done so, but the issue here is that not everyone thinks of them as flaws or we accept that they are the necessary byproducts of running an organized play campaign. Despite people repeatedly telling you this, you refuse to adjust your expectations.

ChaosTicket wrote:
I dont know if you all have the problems I have.

Clearly, we don't. If we did, we probably wouldn't play PFS and would stick to regular home campaigns. And if those weren't available, we would adjust our expectations accordingly.

ChaosTicket wrote:
There isnt a steady GM to run games. The scenario levels and subjects range heavily. Seasons 1-8 are used randomly. Their difficulties vary wildly. One scenario I played had a whopping one combat in 5 hours. Another had a lot of combat with Ghouls almost killing player characters with one touch.

I've also noticed this happens with many campaigns that use published adventures too. But then that's the price you pay when you play published adventures (including PFS adventures), adventures that are not written for a particularly group's (or player's) idiosyncratic preferences.

ChaosTicket wrote:
Players come and go, and what characters they bring are random.

Part of the point of PFS - the ability to form a scratch mission with PCs brought in by the players rather than pre-gens. If you can't accept this, then PFS is going to be problematic for you.

ChaosTicket wrote:
This is not a steady setup. I just want to play my characters, get to level 20, and have fun while doing so. Instead Im concerned about basically removing any risk so I can the results despite the frustating circumstances.

Or you could quit fighting it and go with the flow, recognizing that there are limitations. It's a lot more fun that way.

ChaosTicket wrote:
The real problem is the incompatibility between Pathfinder, the Pathfinder Society, and a group like this. We are not a team. We are individual players at the same table. That really makes things more stressed on videogame logic. Oh am I a squishy wizard? Get a bodyguard hireling/animal companion/follower.

There is no incompatibility between Pathfinder and Pathfinder Society. PFS is simply a subset of what can be done with PF, but then, so is every other home campaign. And yes you are individual players at the same table - so make a team of yourselves! Communicate! Cooperate! Learn how to adjust to a scratch-built group of adventurers while still getting things done.

Granted, that kind of game isn't for everyone - like you. So stop complaining about it and move on, already.

ChaosTicket wrote:
Actually screw it, Im just going to make every character I have an animal companion.

Underlining that you're not paying any attention to anyone here...

5/5 5/55/55/5

ChaosTicket wrote:
Haha, funny that nobody address any of the game flaws I bring up.

Because you're not bringing up flaws. You're bringing up different design expectations between what you want out of a game and what PFS will provide. That does not automatically mean that PFS is in the wrong.

Your points are not being ignored simply because you fail to be convincing.

I mean, have you every actually played the way you seem to expect, or are you theorycrafting the perfect DM in your head?

Everything you're listing as the awesome thing you want to do would be banhammered in every home game i've ever been in.

Quote:
I dont know if you all have the problems I have.

I have run 150 games and played at least that many. I have seen three, count them, three, games go belly up. One was just barely able to play up, one had a horrifically overpowered third party monster snuck into a pfs scenario, the other was bonekeep with some underpowered characters. These games range from steady groups online, to steady groups at a small shop, to small gaming conventions accross six states, online pick up groups to gencon.

I have seen groups with a lemming or two. I have never seen a group OF lemmings. If ALL of your groups are made up of lemmings please consider that the one constant in all of your groups with no teamwork is you. I have almost always managed to make SOMETHING work.

Quote:
This is not a steady setup. I just want to play my characters, get to level 20, and have fun while doing so. Instead Im concerned about basically removing any risk so I can the results despite the frustating circumstances.

And which of those is the problem? That there is risk or that you don't expect any?

Quote:
The real problem is the incompatibility between Pathfinder, the Pathfinder Society, and a group like this.

You mean pathfinder as you play it/want it played, and pathfinder society. They're not the same thing.

Quote:
We are not a team. We are individual players at the same table. That really makes things more stressed on videogame logic. Oh am I a squishy wizard? Get a bodyguard hireling/animal companion/follower.

And what have you done to work with the other players?

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