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Specifically the condition, not the spell, and I suppose this could extend to any creature classified as "mindless"
I as the DM and a player have been having...disagreements about this as of late. I've ruled that because an ooze is mindless (coupled with the lack of a discernible anatomy) that they would be exempt from that status condition, but I was wondering what ya'll thought.
I've also seen people rationalize that the Daze spell is considered Mind Effecting and therefore the condition would not affect mindless creatures.
I'd think they should, since they're immune to stunning and dazed is basically a lesser version of that, but by the rules almost nothing is immune to the dazed condition. It's not mind-affecting in many of the ways it is applied.
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I've also seen people rationalize that the Daze spell is considered Mind Effecting and therefore the condition would not affect mindless creatures.
It's a reasonable extrapolation, but it does not actually follow from a rules or logical standpoint. The daze spell is mind-affecting, but that does not make the dazed condition a mind-affecting condition by itself.
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Yep, if the daze is caused by a mind affecting effect they are immune. If it's not they aren't. Daze is not an inherently mind affecting condition.
I'm sure a physical effect causing daze would leave an ooze aquivering.
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by the rules? yes.
Oozes are also blind, so a case can be made that they cannot be dazed by any sort of visual effect (such as the Wandering Star Motes spell) -- but I do not recall seeing anything official to that effect.
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Still, the big question is whether Dazing Spell will shut down oozes.... I can't think of any reason it wouldn't.
The really weird thing is that I can't find anything that says the confused condition is inherently mind-affecting either.
IMO this makes sense as 'acting erratically' is a condition that can logically apply to most creatures. corrupt programing for a robot, damaged sigils on a construct, drugged smoke on vermin, magic scrambling the commands of an undead, ect.
Divorcing the conditions from the mechanisms allows for a variety of effects without having to create new conditions: why create a new 'corrupted programing' condition for robots when confused does what you want?
The really weird thing is that I can't find anything that says the confused condition is inherently mind-affecting either.IMO this makes sense as 'acting erratically' is a condition that can logically apply to most creatures. corrupt programing for a robot, damaged sigils on a construct, drugged smoke on vermin, magic scrambling the commands of an undead, ect.
Divorcing the conditions from the mechanisms allows for a variety of effects without having to create new conditions: why create a new 'corrupted programing' condition for robots when confused does what you want?
Already implementedThe really weird thing is that I can't find anything that says the confused condition is inherently mind-affecting either.IMO this makes sense as 'acting erratically' is a condition that can logically apply to most creatures. corrupt programing for a robot, damaged sigils on a construct, drugged smoke on vermin, magic scrambling the commands of an undead, ect.
Divorcing the conditions from the mechanisms allows for a variety of effects without having to create new conditions: why create a new 'corrupted programing' condition for robots when confused does what you want?
Which proves my point: no reason to 'reinvent the wheel'.
PS: I was thinking there was a confusion effect for constructs but couldn't recall where I'd seen it. ;)
Not saying it wasn't the prudent game design decision, I'm just saying it can lead to some peculiar results. For example, the eldritch poisoner archetype has a discovery that's literally called "mind-altering toxin," and the confusion it causes isn't mind-affecting in the slightest.The really weird thing is that I can't find anything that says the confused condition is inherently mind-affecting either.IMO this makes sense as 'acting erratically' is a condition that can logically apply to most creatures. corrupt programing for a robot, damaged sigils on a construct, drugged smoke on vermin, magic scrambling the commands of an undead, ect.
Divorcing the conditions from the mechanisms allows for a variety of effects without having to create new conditions: why create a new 'corrupted programing' condition for robots when confused does what you want?
That's more a poorly named ability: It's more a neurological poison affecting perception. The game is chock full of poorly names items.
The real issue here is mindless is purely a function of int score and not that the creature doesn't have a brain: so in one sense mind makes sense in casual writing as anything affected by the poison has it's mental processes affected and the other where mindless lacks higher mental processes but still retain basic ones.