Getting 30+ in a statistic possible?


General Discussion


I dont know if Starfinder actually has maximum stats. I look at both the profiles of both the Technomancer and Mystic and see "30-31". I dont know if that is actually possible.

#1 Starting characters can have up to 18 in a stat. This is specifically in the rules AFTER calculating Race and Theme bonuses. So no 20 in a starting stat?

#2 Ability Score Advancements at level 5, 10, 15, and 20 would each grant +1 for +4 total. So 18+4=22

#3 Statistic boosting Personal Upgradesare one each of +6, +4, and +2 to different statistics. Put the +6 in the existing stat so now its 22+6=28.

So is Paizo presenting an impossibility in the Core Rulebook? I dont see the D&D staples of stat boosting Belts, Headbands, Manuals, and Tomes.


Yep, you're right, going up to level 20 means that you have a maximum stat of 28. However, on page 21, they also mention "extreme high-level play", so they clearly thought about people going beyond level 20. Although no CRs higher than 25 are even listed in the Alien Archive, so that would be a bit difficult. The game's still pretty new, of course.
Or more likely the rule's there just in case your GM somehow allows such high ability scores for whatever reason. I'm sure you can think of some situations where a GM might hand out such a bonus.


Also theoretically there could be a creature that casts spells like one of those two classes and has a higher than PC possible stat.

Something similar to the true dragons in Pathfinder (to grab a quick easy example).


Also could be future-proofing maybe something later on (powered armor perhaps?) might get a character past that.

Wayfinders

I wish... that would be incredible...


you know we still dont have the all cards in our hands but just a name change from ioun to aeon stone and voila we just hit the magic number. so its just needs item creation rules to fix back the math


While I dont expect to be able to reach the maximimum in every ability score, being teased with even one ability score with an impossible goal like this isnt pleasant.

I dont like being stuck on character creation because Im worried I didnt make the perfect character before playing trying out a character.

I do hope just more ability Score increasing items will be released later. I really do miss magical Belts, Headbands, Tomes and Manuals.


As a counter point, I really hope that they do not add further stat boosters into the game, but rather interesting magic items that can change how you approach situations.

Stat boosters are by definition the most boring magic item. They fundamentally don't change how you play. And they always become mandatory.

I'd be curious, is anyone planning on not taking the maximum Personal Upgrades at levels 3, 7 and 14 for a character? I'm willing to bet the vast majority of characters do.

So once you have these mandatory stat bonuses everyone takes, the scenarios have to take that into account, and everything gets bumped up to the point where you're literally rolling to reach the same numbers, and you're back to where you started. I submit Pathfinder society as evidence.

I don't mind automatic bonuses you get without cost elsewhere, as that gives you a feeling of progression when dealing with lower level situations, but if you have to spend credits or magic item slots that could have gone to something more interesting like a Tiara of Translocation or a Ring of Cosmic Alignment then you're losing a portion of the game as those items/rules never get used.


ChaosTicket wrote:

While I dont expect to be able to reach the maximimum in every ability score, being teased with even one ability score with an impossible goal like this isnt pleasant.

I dont like being stuck on character creation because Im worried I didnt make the perfect character before playing trying out a character.

I do hope just more ability Score increasing items will be released later. I really do miss magical Belts, Headbands, Tomes and Manuals.

Don't worry about not being perfect.

You don't need to max out at 28 at level 20 - In fact it is usually sub-optimal to do so. Even sometimes stressing over maxing out AC or Damage is useless because at the most you are looking at a statistically irrelevant number.

Example:

2 level 20 Melee'ers - One has Strength 28, One has Strength 26

Damage difference between them? Typically at maximum 3 (assuming they both can attack 3 times on a full attack) To Hit Difference between them? 1 statistically a 5% difference at maximum.

When you look at the AC's and the HP's of enemies... Well.. An extra 3 damage maximum a round isn't going to decide a fight. That is less than your average dice variance. Even the +1 higher to hit isn't going to matter all that often because of how KAC/EAC numbers scale.


Abraham spalding wrote:

Also theoretically there could be a creature that casts spells like one of those two classes and has a higher than PC possible stat.

Something similar to the true dragons in Pathfinder (to grab a quick easy example).

I had considered that as well, but that's not how NPCs are created in Starfinder. You use the graft system found in the appendix of Alien Archive instead. An NPC's proficiency at casting has nothing to do with their ability scores, just their CR.

Sure, you could generate an NPC like you would a playable character, but they will severely stick out and not be in line with other NPCs. Furthermore, there isn't a 1-to-1 correspondence between character level and CR; a PC's and an NPC's stats are quite different.


It's in case people ignore the suggested point buy and decide to roll stats. If you start with a rolled 18 and have a racial +2, you can get to 30, or 32 with a +4 racial bonus.


Huh? I dont know of any races with +4 in the Core Rulebook.

I like the ability Score increases in Starfinder shifting towards making characters well rounded instead of 18-20 in one stat and add 1 every 4 levels.

However with fewer items to actually use for stat boosts that means it's still likely to start with a single priority statistic.

In other d20 games I usually started 14 in secondary stats. And then planned around the stat boosters.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Not in the core rulebook no.

Alien Archives has Contemplative (+4 Int), Dragonkin (+4 Str), Goblin, space (+4 Dex), Gray (+4 Int), and Shobhad (+4 Str).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
It's in case people ignore the suggested point buy and decide to roll stats. If you start with a rolled 18 and have a racial +2, you can get to 30, or 32 with a +4 racial bonus.

If you use the optional rolling ability scores any theme or racial modifier that pushes would push an ability beyond 18 is lost.


CRB P.20 - Optional Method: Rolling Ability Scores wrote:
You still can't have any single ability score higher than 18. If points from a race or theme would push you over that amount, you still just get the 18, and those additional points are lost; they can't be assigned anywhere else.

Even when rolling instead of using point-buy, your starting stats cannot go above 18. Tables accounting for higher modifiers than can be achieved by PCs are some combination of future proofing and legacy presentation. There was some fringe benefit in that it gave slightly more guidance for high ability score NPC spellcasters before the full monster creation rules were published in the Alien Archive, but that is an edge case that is largely moot at this point.


ChaosTicket wrote:

I dont know if Starfinder actually has maximum stats. I look at both the profiles of both the Technomancer and Mystic and see "30-31". I dont know if that is actually possible.

#1 Starting characters can have up to 18 in a stat. This is specifically in the rules AFTER calculating Race and Theme bonuses. So no 20 in a starting stat?

Any racial bonuses dont help because this point is in place. 18 is the maximum any ability score can start in, no exceptions, at least as far as I know.

So to raise ability scores past creation you need either the ability score increases every 5 levels or the Personal Upgrades. I look and I dont see any spells that boost stats.

So in effect there is a current Hard Cap in Ability Scores of 28 for one ability, 24 for a second(25 for those +4 races), and 20 in a third.

Scarab Sages

But that's in reference to using the point buy. If you're rolling, who knows what you'll get?


Stoic Gorehard wrote:
But that's in reference to using the point buy. If you're rolling, who knows what you'll get?

Read the example in crb for rolling it specifically says any points above 18 disappear so it’s best to swap around stats


Since we're shooting for highest max, the jarl slayer power armor gives you 29 strength, it's still a +9 mod but it seems like stats cap out at 38 otherwise.


Maezer wrote:
Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
It's in case people ignore the suggested point buy and decide to roll stats. If you start with a rolled 18 and have a racial +2, you can get to 30, or 32 with a +4 racial bonus.
If you use the optional rolling ability scores any theme or racial modifier that pushes would push an ability beyond 18 is lost.

unless you choose to ignore that.


Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
Maezer wrote:
Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
It's in case people ignore the suggested point buy and decide to roll stats. If you start with a rolled 18 and have a racial +2, you can get to 30, or 32 with a +4 racial bonus.
If you use the optional rolling ability scores any theme or racial modifier that pushes would push an ability beyond 18 is lost.
unless you choose to ignore that.

In a discussion of the rules of the game, "you can choose to ignore the rules" doesn't really contribute anything.


Hence having troll in his name

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