A Kineticist in Wrath of the Righteous


Advice


Good morning,

as the title states, we are about to start Wrath of th Righteous and I'm gonna play a Kineticist.

I would love to play a fire based killing machine, but i'm afraid that high level bosses would have fire immunity on a daily basis. Same point in regard of "Thor" kineticist, with main focus air/lighting.

So what element should i go for in order to fulfill a DPS role in the group? That's my main concern right now.

Thank you all for your help.


Fire gets numerous ways to burn through fire resistance. Your bigger issue as a kinetecist is that there is very very little (read as none) mythic support for them.


Demons are immune to electricity and poison. A zappy Kineticist is best avoided, since these are what your demon bosses are most likely to be immune to.

Demons have Resist Acid, Cold, and Fire 10. These elements are doable, but you'll always have to contend with that. It's worth noting that Fire is excellent for combat, and a variety of talents - burning infusion and searing flame, in particular - are specifically designed to help you get through resistance to fire. It's quite doable.

Also consider if you want to go melee or ranged - that's a preeeeeetty important choice for Kineticists.

Also, is your game using the Mythic Mania expansion? If not, I highly recommend it. There's a lot of extra feats, etc., that can help you get a better build.


Avoid Lightning like the plague. Demons are all immune to it, only some demons are immune to fire.

But as above your biggest problem is you will gain very little from Mythic, on the other hand mythic is vastly overpowered so you will still be gamebreakingly powerful just less so than the Paladins and wizards

Grand Lodge

If you are going to run into a lot of demons, you need to think about Spell Resistance. A CR6 demon has a SP of 17... Generally speaking, an outsider (not just demons) has Sp = CR +11.

A Pyromancer with his ranged touch attack bounces off this pretty hard as the levels go up. Two feats worth of Spell Penetration only reduce this number by 4.

This problem exists for any energy attack type, not just Fire.

One solution is to go into melee with Kinetic Blade/Whip, then SR doesn't block the damage. One of your first feats then would probably be Medium Armor Proficeincy (you're going to need the extra AC).

Another solution is to stay at range and wait for Composite Blast & pick a physical secondary element, like Earth. The Earth attack picks up nearby dirt/stones/etc and hurls them, so no SR.

Another solution is to acquire a +1 Bane/Evil Outsiders ranged weapon, and use cold iron arrows/bolts/bullets with weapon blanches that help defeat DR vs silver/cold iron/adamantine/insubstantial. It's less damage than a blast, but a blast that bounces off of SR does _no_ damage.


If you Fire Blast with kinetic blade you still have to worry about a SR and resistances.

Grand Lodge

justaworm wrote:
If you Fire Blast with kinetic blade you still have to worry about a SR and resistances.

I thought the part about "acts as a weapon" invalidated SR for the Kinetic Blade...

Shadow Lodge

Sadly no.


PRD wrote:
The weapon deals the same damage type that your kinetic blast deals, and it interacts with Armor Class and spell resistance as normal for a blast of its type.

Kinetic blast doesn't change the fact that it is an energy blast at heart. You still get to use a touch attack and you still have to deal with SR.


Yup. Of course, if you don't want to deal with Spell Resistance, you can always go for physical blasts instead. Earth's a pretty good bet on that route. You're not going to be puncturing alignment-based DR very easily, but it'll work - especially with a mythic feat or two that ups your accuracy. ^^


I feel like water or Earth would be the strongest elements for this adventure path.


Thank you all for your comments.

1)Didn't know about the Mythic Mania,i'll surely look into it with my GM.

2)The Idea of purging Demons with flame it's really appealing. I don't think that a water-based PC fits me at all, while surely being more powerful. Maybe i can convince myself to not go pure fire but something like fire/earth/fire, so i can get my hand on some physical blast.

3)Didn't really though about ranged and melee: can't i just pick up kinetic blade and weapon finesse to be able to defend myself in melee while taking point blank shot and precise shot to be able to do both if needed?

4)About the mythic support for kineticist: isn't Wraith of the Righteous a relatively "easy" campaing from what i read on the internet? Or should i be afraid that i won't be contributing enough?


If nothing else, I recommend your GM take a look at the bit marked Mythic Solutions. (It's at the bottom of the left column.) That section addresses some of the known issues of mythic play, and includes a variety of recommended changes to help smooth things out. ^^

And yeah, Wrath of the Righteous is rather easy - high-tier mythic characters wreck foes. If your group enjoys steamrolling stuff, great! If you'd prefer a bit more of an epic challenge, don't hesitate to let your GM know and ask them to do things like add (and toughen up) foes, especially later on. The Mythic Creatures section on the page I linked you to has tons of strong mythic creatures to battle. ^^


Earth/Earth lets you impale demons on pikes. Geokineticists are right up there with some ragers for metal-soundtracked indestructable carnage-wreakers.

Aether and Air are fun, you don't really need a good composite when you can empower, and they get the funnest tricks. Aether lets you turn anything into an implement of death, make your enemies fear your handful of dust.

I'm not aware of a good way to burn demons, unless there is (or you and your GM create) a mythic way to improve pyro's ability to burn through resistances. Seems like an ability to convert fire damage to sacred or untyped damage would be thematic.

Grand Lodge

Earth/Earth or Earth/Fire are both solid options.

Pure earth is super tanky, targets normal AC so no worrying about SR. Not a lot of utility to it, but still super fun. You can bypass some DR types with your basic blast since you can make it bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing. At higher levels you can take the rare metal infusion for you composite blast and bypass stuff like cold iron, silver, and adamantine.

Earth/Fire gives you a bit more versatility, allows you to switch it up and target either touch or normal AC, still lets you be super tanky with the earth defense talent. Magma blast still targets normal AC, but does half it's damage as fire (which ignores SR since it is a still considered a physical blast)

I've got a level 7 earth/earth kineticist in PFS who I love. If PFS went up to level 15 I would go earth/earth/fire.


I hear people saying that kineticists don't have mythic support, and they have a point. But, despite being created after mythic adventures kineticists still do pretty good with the system! See, a kineticist does a full round's worth of damage with a standard action, and mythic lets you get more standard actions as long as you don't cast spells with them.


Asmodeus' Advocate wrote:
I hear people saying that kineticists don't have mythic support, and they have a point. But, despite being created after mythic adventures kineticists still do pretty good with the system! See, a kineticist does a full round's worth of damage with a standard action, and mythic lets you get more standard actions as long as you don't cast spells with them.

Well, to play Asomedeu.... Wait...

Anyway, if you want to be pedantic, Kinetic Blasts are spell-like abilities, so they do count as spells for the 'can't cast a spell' bit (correct me if I'm wrong).

Grand Lodge

Since you say you want to run a Pyromancer...

Kinetic Fist bypasses Spell Resistance, but it doesn't do a lot of damage compared to a Kinetic Blast (melee touch). Unarmed Strike damage (Spiked Gauntlet) is 1d4 for a medium character. Then you get 1d6 of your elemental type damage per 3d6 in your blast.

But that is still Fire damage, which even a CR 6 Demon (Babau) has Fire Resistance 10 to.

If you think you are going to run into solo demons as bosses, rather than a party of 2-3 demons, the solution is to start as a Paladin, then switch over to Pyromancy at level 2. This gives you access to heavy armor, a +2 save vs Will, and one Smite Evil per day. Smite and the Kinetic Fist bypasses all the DR and SR for 1d4 (Spiked Gauntlet) + 2d6 (Smite) + 1d6 (blast minimum). That last 1d6 is still fire, so the Fire Resistance probably blocks it. Ask your GM if it piggybacks on the Smite and doesn't get blocked... but don't be surprised if he says no.

You can also use Burning Infusion couple with Searing Flame to reduce Fire Resistance by 1d6 per round, stackable. The duration is 1/2 your level as a Kineticist, so hopefully a couple of rounds by the time you start running into Demons.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My wife is playing a Void Kineticist and has been decimating all the demons. We are 11th level and she hasn't had a problem with energy resistance yet.

Grand Lodge

JesseDennehy wrote:
My wife is playing a Void Kineticist and has been decimating all the demons. We are 11th level and she hasn't had a problem with energy resistance yet.

How is your wife getting around Spell Resistance? That's the real problem here. Once a Pyromancer reaches 7th level and doubles up on Fire --> Blue Flame Blast, it's 8d6 + 1/2 Con Modifier + 2x elemental overflow damage. Plus Fire's Fury if you have it. That will overpower 10 points of Fire Resistance.


You might consider the Elysiokineticist from Player Companion People of the Wastes...it gets aligned blasts with the Wood element.


I don't want to paladin, not really my playstyle.

I think that burning infusion+ searing flame is enough for fire resistance.

For spell resistance with some trait and human i'll start with +4 at least at lvl 1.

Plus i'm working with my gm to build some mythic rule for kineticist that let me bypass fire immunity/resistance with mythic power, so i think i should be fine.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I love kineticists.

That said playing a class that is subject to SR and energy resistance/immunity with no mythic support...um maybe with a LOT of house rules.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Telekinetisists are fun if played as a stealthy sniper. Take the Trickster path and wander around, flying and invisible, taking shots of opportunity. You're not going to be doing a lot of damage, but you will be hard for the enemy to get a handle on.


Dαedαlus wrote:
Anyway, if you want to be pedantic, Kinetic Blasts are spell-like abilities, so they do count as spells for the 'can't cast a spell' bit (correct me if I'm wrong).

They shouldn't count as spells in that case. Generic spell-like abilities don't count as generic spells, but specific spell-like abilities do count as specific spells. For instance, being able to cast dimension door as a spell-like ability counts as being able to cast dimension door for other abilities. And casting a summoning spell-like ability counts as casting a summoning spell.


Unfortunately the rest of the party has asked me to provide some kind of healing, since in the last 2 Adventure i didn't i've agreed.

So i saw the kinetic healer and similar wild talents, any opinion about that? If they would make at least a decent off-combat healing (and to me they look more than enough) it would be ok.

Moreover, any thoughts about the kinetic chirurgeon archetype? Is it any good?


All things considered, the Kinetic Chirugeon is pretty bad - it's certainly not worth much compared to clerics, oracles, and other classes that actually focus on healing. Does the rest of your party have any divine casters in it?

(If nothing else, there's UMD'ing some wands...)


I'd expect the Chirurgeon to do fairly well at very low levels, when healing is hard to come across and burn costs are pretty minor. But by mid levels, you'd be hurting for a wider variety of condition healing, and wands could handle a lot of the hit point healing.


There currently is a Kinetic Chirurgeon in the game I'm running. I don't know how well it will work in your game but I do have some insight. They are still low level, so this is also only the experience at that level.

First, the other players have to be willing to take the burn themselves from the healing. If they expect you to take the entire burden, forget it.

You want a Con of at least 18, plus a physical blast. (The player took water.) This means you heal 1d6+5 at first level at the cost to the target of 1 point of burn (one point of non-lethal to first level character.) Explain this to the players as healing nearly all the damage and converting the rest to non-lethal which goes away after a night's rest. So depending on how damage is spread about, that can be up to 15 to 20 healings (which are more powerful than a cure light wounds) before the non-lethal accumulates to the point of the need of stopping. At first level. After a point, you can start using your own burn to keep going for another half dozen heals, but you may need it for any injuries you take.

Do not dump charisma. You have Use Magic device on your class skill list, which helps for using CLW wands and other healing means.

You will eventually get mercies and wild talents which help with status effects. Choose the ones that you often run into. Fatigued, Shaken and sickened are all good early choices.

You only really need two feats, Point Blank shot and precise shot. This allows you to take some feats you might not normally take. Our player took the focused study alternate racial trait, So she gets a skill focus at 1st, 8th and 16 instead of the bonus first level feat. You may want to use it for use magic device or some other skill. (The player took a trait to get diplomacy as a class skill and skill focus diplomacy to also be the team face.)

Choose wild talents that will help with damage mitigation as well. For water, slick and kinetic cover are good early choices.

(Specifically for water kineticist) Hydrokinesis is better than it looks. You get create water, which is nice, but if you are doing any water travel, you can control currents with a strength of your Con.

Finally, since this is a home game, talk to your GM about allowing you to switch out gather power for something actually useful to you. I allowed the player to switch out gather power and composite blast plus their upgrades for extra utility wild talents every odd level.


I don't get why i can't use gather power to reduce the cost of kinetic healer.

that's probably because my english is not that good...


J4RH34D wrote:
Fire gets numerous ways to burn through fire resistance. Your bigger issue as a kinetecist is that there is very very little (read as none) mythic support for them.

This: there is very little direct mythic support for kineticist.

For element: avoid electricity. Void will give you a negative energy blast that works on most creatures in the AP. Gravity Blast will work on everything, but won't break most DR.


Alzhan wrote:

I don't get why i can't use gather power to reduce the cost of kinetic healer.

that's probably because my english is not that good...

Because you'd have infinite healing, something the game tries very hard to avoid giving you.

Also, Gather Power only works on Blast/Infusion Wild Talents, not Utility Wild Talents (which Kinetic Healer is).


Alzhan wrote:

I don't get why i can't use gather power to reduce the cost of kinetic healer.

that's probably because my english is not that good...

Actually, a lot of people made that mistake at first. You have to read very carefully to notice that gather power only works on blasts.


About Mythic. With mythic as it stands you will be fairly effective there are some abilities which could be useful , however Mythic is devastatingly powerful (so much so that I will never use it again after needing to give a boss 16000 hp to survive more than 2 rounds) for clases which can use it .
You do not get the 2 biggest mythic bonus's
1) Ability to move and full attack with all iteratives at full BAB
2) Or ability to cast an extra 20+ 9th level spells with free quicken metamagic on all spells cast

So while powerful you will probably lag behind the other game-breaking powerful monstrosities

The mythic rules were written before the kientecist so some questions
1) Does distant barrage for the champion allow an extra kinetic blast (if it does you are broken and will fit right in)
2) Whichever path you take ask if you can take the eldrith breach mythic power(normally archmage/hierophant only but it allows easier defeating of spell resistance)
3) ask about applying penetrating damage to elemental resistance
4)Take perfect strike (champion) as written for 1 mythic point you can double the damage of your weapons dice (elemental blast)

Campaign traits either stolen fury if it effects elemental resistance or riftwarden orphan

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