Inner Sea Races and Race Traits


Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

While building up one of my GM credit blobs I think I stumbled across a typo in Additional Resources.

Is it possible to pick up a Race Trait from Inner Sea Races using Adopted, Racial Heritage, Scion of Humanity or Mostly Human?

Note: Alternate racial traits, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race

I think the part I bolded should read "Race Traits", not "Alternate Racial Traits".

There is no way for one race to acquire the Alternate Racial Traits of another race, so this listed restriction is redundant, but there are several ways to acquire Race Traits from other races, and it seems to me that would fall more in line with the restriction on racial spells and feats.

Just wanted to bring it up before I play this GM blob ^_^

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

I suppose it's worth asking. ^_^

Scarab Sages ****

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It’s the same language used in the Advanced Race Guide entry. I don’t think it’s a mistake. Presumably race traits are meant to be able to be taken with Adopted. Just because there is not currently a way to take Alternate Racial Traits doesn’t mean there will never be a way, so it’s probably good that’s covered.

Additional Resources Advanced Race Guide entry wrote:
Note: Alternate racial traits, racial archetypes, racial evolutions, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race. Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it (for example, only halflings can purchase and use solidsmoke pipeweed).

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

There are no Race Traits in the Advanced Race Guide.

I actually meant to point out that distinction in my original post but realize now that I didn't.

So if the language for Inner Sea Races was just simply copied and pasted from the Advanced Race Guide, that would make sense.

I'm not playing my character until DunDraCon in February, so if there's no clarification by then I'll just go ahead assuming it's legal.

I just wanted to cover my bases first, cuz it feels off to me.

(now to come up with a backstory why a Vanara would be Adopted by Kobolds...)

Grand Lodge ****

Nefreet wrote:
(now to come up with a backstory why a Vanara would be Adopted by Kobolds...)

Tone doesn't pass easily through the internet. If you meant this literally, only very limited circumstances will allow it: FAQ


Nefreet wrote:

While building up one of my GM credit blobs I think I stumbled across a typo in Additional Resources.

Note: Alternate racial traits, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race

I think the part I bolded should read "Race Traits", not "Alternate Racial Traits".

There is no way for one race to acquire the Alternate Racial Traits of another race, so this listed restriction is redundant, but there are several ways to acquire Race Traits from other races, and it seems to me that would fall more in line with the restriction on racial spells and feats.

Just wanted to bring it up before I play this GM blob ^_^

Could this be referring to, say, a Half-Elf that wants to trade out Keen Senses for the Elf alternate racial trait Urbanite? Elf Blood does make you count as Elf & Human, so by mentioning it explicitly it ensures that it won't happen, regardless of how you might try to rawyer it in?

**

Starglim wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
(now to come up with a backstory why a Vanara would be Adopted by Kobolds...)
Tone doesn't pass easily through the internet. If you meant this literally, only very limited circumstances will allow it: FAQ

Gosh. I had forgotten about that FAQ. That means I can use my Grippli boon to make a Human with Racial Heritage to make a Human Fiend Keeper Medium, or does the "may only be taken by characters of that race" note in Blood of Beasts AR overrule that?

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Starglim wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
(now to come up with a backstory why a Vanara would be Adopted by Kobolds...)
Tone doesn't pass easily through the internet. If you meant this literally, only very limited circumstances will allow it: FAQ

Thank you. I never noticed that snuck its way into the FAQ. That does answer my question.

Unfortunately it also means I may have to change around the Traits of a couple of my older characters.

Was that FAQ retroactive?

*****

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Nefreet wrote:
Starglim wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
(now to come up with a backstory why a Vanara would be Adopted by Kobolds...)
Tone doesn't pass easily through the internet. If you meant this literally, only very limited circumstances will allow it: FAQ

Thank you. I never noticed that snuck its way into the FAQ. That does answer my question.

Unfortunately it also means I may have to change around the Traits of a couple of my older characters.

Was that FAQ retroactive?

I Think that was always the rule based on a Mike Brock forum post that just got lost for a long time before getting added to the FAQ.

But my memory could be faulty.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Pounce wrote:
Could this be referring to, say, a Half-Elf that wants to trade out Keen Senses for the Elf alternate racial trait Urbanite? Elf Blood does make you count as Elf & Human, so by mentioning it explicitly it ensures that it won't happen, regardless of how you might try to rawyer it in?

This is my guess as well. In fact, I might have to double-check some of my characters... this is reasonable enough that Hero Lab has defaulted to allowing it since around the time the Advanced Race Guide came out. (Which may mean it was tacitly approved by someone at Paizo - we don't know.)

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Pirate Rob wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Starglim wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
(now to come up with a backstory why a Vanara would be Adopted by Kobolds...)
Tone doesn't pass easily through the internet. If you meant this literally, only very limited circumstances will allow it: FAQ

Thank you. I never noticed that snuck its way into the FAQ. That does answer my question.

Unfortunately it also means I may have to change around the Traits of a couple of my older characters.

Was that FAQ retroactive?

I Think that was always the rule based on a Mike Brock forum post that just got lost for a long time before getting added to the FAQ.

But my memory could be faulty.

If that is true, I was unaware of that as well.

I found one particular aspect of the FAQ interesting: the notion that you could "bolt on" a Race Boon in order to access that Race's Traits.

That was a controversial practice for years, supported by some 5-Star GMs and VOs without any support from Campaign Leadership, so it's good to finally see it in print.

I guess after so many people had already done it, it would have been bad PR to not support it.

Scarab Sages ****

I don’t know about bolting on the race boon going back years, but at least part of the idea goes back to October 2016 in an official capacity. I’m sure I’ve seen something referencing the Adopted trait since then as well.

LINK

Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:

John, Tonya, and I discussed the issue, and our inclination is to make the following ruling. To be clear, this is not a final decision, and we invite feedback and discussion.

You can gain the benefits of Adoptive Parentage for any humanoid race without the human subtype on the list of always available races. You can gain the benefits for a humanoid race that is not on the always available list, but doing so requires expending a boon that would allow you to play a character of that race.

I take the FAQ being published as a sign they made their final decision.

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Looks like it. The FAQ is much more broad than that quote.

I still wonder if it's retroactive, but I guess since nothing was mentioned about needing to Retrain then anything prior to March 2017 would be "grandfathered in".


I would not make that assumption, personally. Expect table variation.

*****

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OP Guide wrote:

Feats and Traits: If a feat or trait changes or is removed

from the Additional Resources list, you have two options:
You can switch the old feat for an updated feat of the same
name in another legal source (if available), ignoring any
prerequisites of the new feat you do not meet, or you can
replace the feat (and any of the old feat’s prerequisite
feats) entirely with another feat for which you meet all
the prerequisites. If any of the feat’s changes directly
reference one or more pieces of equipment you own (such
as the weapon selected for the Weapon Focus feat), you
can sell back that equipment at full market value.

It was effectively removed from the additional resources list for characters not of that race, so freely retrain.

Scarab Sages ****

Nefreet wrote:

Looks like it. The FAQ is much more broad than that quote.

I still wonder if it's retroactive, but I guess since nothing was mentioned about needing to Retrain then anything prior to March 2017 would be "grandfathered in".

I’m not certain what you’re asking. You have a character with Adopted and a race trait from a boon race?

If that’s the case, I see one of two possibilities. Either it was never a legal option to take without a boon, in which case it’s an honest mistake and you can replace the trait. I believe this is the case and that taking options from boon races was never legal. All of the additional resources entries I can remember had something to the effect of saying that options in the section for the race were only legal with a boon.

Or it was legal and no longer is, in which case you can replace the trait per the rule that Pirate Rob quoted.

EDIT: Then end result is the same, so it doesn’t seem to matter how it got here.

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Rob has the answer.

Things changed, and just need to be rectified.

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