Heyya.
Regardless of "effectiveness," I'm interested in how to throw two-handed weapons. Or, more specifically, a greatsword, a greataxe, and a greatclub.
I don't have to do it well, but passibly would be ideal.
Proficiency in the weapons, and the Two-Handed Thrower feat seem obvious.
But that still doesn't remove the -4 penalty for throwing a non-ranged (thrown) weapon.
The Throw Anything feat has been discussed already, and deemed no applicable to throwing weapons. Or, at the very least, doesn't allow you to throw them AS the weapon, but as an improvised weapon.
Any thoughts?
Cheers.
You may find this useful.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abil ities/sharding/
Sandal Fury: Thanks. I was aware of this, but I was hoping for something broader (i.e. more weapons), and waaaaay less expensive. :-)
Have you considered taking in a Large Throwing Ax or Large 'Light Hammer'? It's a light weapon made to be Large. I believe that you have the -2 penalty for size, like the Amiri pre-gen with her Large Bastard Sword, and would have to wield it two-handed.
Damage wouldn't be anywhere near Greatsword, though.
With a longsword, you want to grab the hilt backwards and upside down, then throw it like a spear.
A greatsword has quillons that would hit the back of your head if you tried the same thing. I'd suggest either trying essentially the same thing but leaning to one side and extending your arm out, or else grabbing it by the blade and throwing it like an axe.
With a greataxe, you should grab it by the bottom of the handle, hold it behind you so the head touches your lower back, and throw it over your head with both hands.
I don't exactly know what a greatclub is, but I suppose it's a long staff with a small lump at one end. You should probably throw it the same way you throw an axe. If it's too long for that, and would touch the ground when you hold it behind you, consider starting from a different position, as otherwise it will scrape along the ground, which would be detrimental to the throw.
Or you could just get a spear.
Well, mind blade archetype for paladins allows you to get a 3+cha use ability that allows you to send out your weapon and have it attack an enemy as a ranged attack before returning to you. It also uses cha instead of dex for that attack rolls.
It can even do full attacks.
Not sure if this is what you want exactly (this is more weird magic than throwing), but it does somewhat do what you asked for.
EDIT- Gaurwaith: I started to write a similar discussion over the mechanics of sword throwing. But then I realized this guy was talking about game mechanics.
I realized this guy was talking about game mechanics. Then I started to write out a discussion over the mechanics of sword throwing.
Thinking about it a little more, it seems like it would be extremely hard to throw a greatsword, because the big hoops on the guard would force you to grip it all the way back near the pommel. If you're holding it like that sideways, it takes a lot of forearm strength just to not let it fall.
You'd probably be better off throwing it like an axe and hoping to end someone rightly...
Or maybe you could grip it on the blade near the point of balance? It seems like a bad idea to me.
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I realized this guy was talking about game mechanics. Then I started to write out a discussion over the mechanics of sword throwing.
Thinking about it a little more, it seems like it would be extremely hard to throw a greatsword, because the big hoops on the guard would force you to grip it all the way back near the pommel. If you're holding it like that sideways, it takes a lot of forearm strength just to not let it fall.
You'd probably be better off throwing it like an axe and hoping to end someone rightly...
Or maybe you could grip it on the blade near the point of balance? It seems like a bad idea to me.
Haven't you ever watched Braveheart? You just throw it :)
On a more game mechanics related note...couldn't you just use the Throw Anything feat to treat it as an improvised thrown weapon?
Haven't you ever watched Braveheart? You just throw it :)I realized this guy was talking about game mechanics. Then I started to write out a discussion over the mechanics of sword throwing.
Thinking about it a little more, it seems like it would be extremely hard to throw a greatsword, because the big hoops on the guard would force you to grip it all the way back near the pommel. If you're holding it like that sideways, it takes a lot of forearm strength just to not let it fall.
You'd probably be better off throwing it like an axe and hoping to end someone rightly...
Or maybe you could grip it on the blade near the point of balance? It seems like a bad idea to me.
And extrapolating from this, to throw two-handed weapons in Pathfinder you... use two hands to throw it :D
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Option 1) Use Large sized Tridents for 2d6 damage and reskin them as Greatswords. They are thrown weapons, so no -4 to hit, but still -2 because of the size. Such malus can be overcome with a pair of Irongrip Gauntlet. With a (Lesser) Belt of Mighty Hurling you can then apply Str to hit and add +10ft of range increments to the weapons you throw.
Option 2) Universalist Wizards, Clerics with Magic Domain and Warpriests with Magic Blessing can throw their weapons 30ft away 3 + Int/Wis times per day using Int/Wis to hit, without any malus. Arguably 2H Thrower would still add 1.5x Str to damage if the weapon is 2H.
Huge chakram - re-flavor them as the head's of Executioner's Axes - with the axe haft snapped off? A chakram _might_ qualify for effortless lace so with that and the Irongrip gauntlets Gray Warden mentioned you'd have no penalty for a 3d6 30' range weapon.
Additional feats of interest would be: rapid shot and ricochet toss.
Throwing your sword was an actual studied technique.
Yep, that looks like a -4 to hit...
Huge chakram - re-flavor them as the head's of Executioner's Axes - with the axe haft snapped off? A chakram _might_ qualify for effortless lace so with that and the Irongrip gauntlets Gray Warden mentioned you'd have no penalty for a 3d6 30' range weapon.
This is actually incorrect. Taking a Large weapon occasions a -2 for a medium character. It's only possible for Amiri because she's taking in a Large Short Sword, two-handed. A Huge weapon is out of the question.
The subject of Amiri and her Large weapon came up in another thread... the one about pre-gens, I think? "Lousy Pregen"?
The only two handed throwing weapon I can think of is the Olympic hammer.
Not only was throwing your sword an actual technique, throwing just the pommel was as well.
Edit: I started to watch Braveheart.
This is actually incorrect. Taking a Large weapon occasions a -2 for a medium character. It's only possible for Amiri because she's taking in a Large Short Sword, two-handed. A Huge weapon is out of the question.Huge chakram -
Sir BtV are you saying it isn't possible for a medium character to wield a huge light weapon two-handed? (In which case I disagree- see Weapon Size spoiler (below)).
OR are you saying a Chakram isn't a light weapon? Which there have been a number of threads about, most pointing out that it is in both the heavy and light blades fighter groups, that it only weighs one pound and that James Jacobs said HERE to treat it like a star knife (which is a light weapon).
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.
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Not only was throwing your sword an actual technique, throwing just the pommel was as well.
Edit: I started to watch Braveheart.
The only two handed throwing weapon I can think of is the Olympic hammer.
They're not actually trying to hit anything with the hammer, just see how far it goes.
They do have to hit the field (i.e., not lob out of bounds)
Behold! The Pommel Launcher!
Now we are all sons of...
Sir BtV are you saying it isn't possible for a medium character to wield a huge light weapon two-handed? (In which case I disagree- see Weapon Size spoiler (below)).This is actually incorrect. Taking a Large weapon occasions a -2 for a medium character. It's only possible for Amiri because she's taking in a Large Short Sword, two-handed. A Huge weapon is out of the question.Huge chakram -
Permit me to quote the Ultimate Combat FAQ section.
"Barbarian--Titan Mauler: Can a Medium titan mauler wield a Large two-handed weapon, such as a Large greatsword?
No. The "Inappropriately Sized Weapons" rule (Core Rulebook 144) says (in summary) that a creature can't wield an inappropriately-sized weapon if the size difference would increase it one or more "steps" beyond "two-handed." None of the titan mauler's abilities say the character can break the "steps" part of the "Inappropriately Sized Weapons" rule, so the character still has to follow that rule.
—Pathfinder Design Team, 03/15/13"
Although this discussion is about the the Titan Mauler 2nd level (ex) power, it illustrates that many Large weapons are out of bounds, let alone something that is Huge.
Taking a Large weapon occasions a -2 for a medium character. It's only possible for Amiri because she's taking in a Large Short Sword, two-handed. A Huge weapon is out of the question.
Amiri wields a Large bastard sword. She has Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), which lets her use a Medium bastard sword with one hand, or a Large one with two. She compensates for the size difference penalty by having a very high Strength, boosted even higher by rage. (My wife is very fond of playing her in PFS, because she does obscene amounts of damage when she Power Attacks.)
Sir BtV are you saying it isn't possible for a medium character to wield a huge light weapon two-handed? (In which case I disagree- see Weapon Size spoiler (below)).This is actually incorrect. Taking a Large weapon occasions a -2 for a medium character. It's only possible for Amiri because she's taking in a Large Short Sword, two-handed. A Huge weapon is out of the question.Huge chakram -
Permit me to quote the Ultimate Combat FAQ section.
"Barbarian--Titan Mauler: Can a Medium titan mauler wield a Large two-handed weapon, such as a Large greatsword?
No. The "Inappropriately Sized Weapons" rule (Core Rulebook 144) says (in summary) that a creature can't wield an inappropriately-sized weapon if the size difference would increase it one or more "steps" beyond "two-handed." None of the titan mauler's abilities say the character can break the "steps" part of the "Inappropriately Sized Weapons" rule, so the character still has to follow that rule.
—Pathfinder Design Team, 03/15/13"
Although this discussion is about the the Titan Mauler 2nd level (ex) power, it illustrates that many Large weapons are out of bounds, let alone something that is Huge.
A Large 1-handed weapon counts as a 2-handed weapon when wielded by a Medium creature. The Medium creature will suffer a -2 to attack rolls when using it this way.
A Huge light weapon also counts as a 2-handed weapon when wielded by a medium creature. The Medium creature will take a -4 penalty to attack rolls using such a weapon this way.
The titan mauler reduces these penalties, but is not able to wield a Large 2-handed weapon (or Huge 1-handed weapon, or Gargantuan light weapon, or anything bigger) as a Medium creature.
A Huge light weapon also counts as a 2-handed weapon when wielded by a medium creature. The Medium creature will take a -4 penalty to attack rolls using such a weapon this way.
The titan mauler reduces these penalties, but is not able to wield a Large 2-handed weapon (or Huge 1-handed weapon, or Gargantuan light weapon, or anything bigger) as a Medium creature.
Source please.
Core book, equipment section:
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.
I kind of wonder if anyone disagreeing with my conclusion that a medium creature can wield a Large Light or Large One-handed weapon at -2 or Huge Light weapon at -4 bothered to look at the core rules I included in the spoiler in my post. . .
No one mentioned the two handed thrower feat?
Of important note is that the two handed thrower feat doesn't require a two handed weapon.
A one handed weapon thrown two handed nets 1.5 str damage.
Can a monk with crusaders flurry (Gozreh worshipper), or sacred fist flurry- throw a trident AND use the two handed thrower feat to get 1.5 strength strength on his throw flurry.
If not, why not ?
Flurry: "A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands." So str x1, no matter how many hands you use with it.
Now unchained monk doesn't have any of that so it fine with an 'unchained' flurry.
Yes but you have feat (two handed thrower) that overrides that general flurry rule
No it doesn't... Reread the section I quoted: "whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands." So flurry doesn't allow damage changed depending of handedness which is EXACTLY what two handed thrower does.
Now look at dragon style once. Notice any mention of hands used? Nope, and that's why it can work as it just alters the modifier and NOT how you use the weapon.
So it's not that something can't come along and modify the damage but the fact that two handing can't do it.
Makes sense, Thanks !
Glad that cleared it up for you. :)
I kind of wonder if anyone disagreeing with my conclusion that a medium creature can wield a Large Light or Large One-handed weapon at -2 or Huge Light weapon at -4 bothered to look at the core rules I included in the spoiler in my post. . .
I did. I believed that the Ultimate Combat FAQ I quoted forbade this, but further close scrutiny shows that I was mistaken.
My apologies.
I note that Ultimate Equipment doesn't expressly state that whether a Chakram is light or one-handed. As it weighs 1 lb, and a Javelin weighs 2 lbs I would say it counts as light.