Wildshape and Bloodline power


Rules Questions

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Not sure about this one, as they are two size increasing effects. Was hoping I could get some opinions. If I was wild shaped into a medium sized creature and went into a rage would I get the benefit of this bloodline rage power?

Demonic Bulk (Su)
At 4th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can choose to grow one size category larger than your base size (as enlarge person) even if you aren’t humanoid.


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Polymorph wrote:
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

Technically this does not apply as neither wildshape nor the bloodline power are spells, but I wouldn't bet on any GM seeing it that way.


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Enlarge person itself has some rule text about it:

CRB wrote:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.


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SheepishEidolon wrote:

Enlarge person itself has some rule text about it:

CRB wrote:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

If Atalius's GM allows Psionics, there is a Psionic Enlarge Person that lets you grow 2 sizes instead of 1 if you pay the extra PSPs.

Meanwhile Rage + Wildshape is devastating even without stacking size effects. You can do things like Wildshape into a Triceratops with a wicked Gore Attack and use your Rage Powers to also get Claws and a Bite! Or become a Megaraptor with 2 Claws, 2 Talons, a Bite and a Gore! Or maybe a Giant Octopus with 2 Claw Attacks on top of those 8 tentacles.

Plus, there is still the Strong Jaw Spell, a 2-size Virtual Size Increase, and that does stack with actual Size Increases.

I recall there is a Feat called Powerful Shape or something that works as a Virtual Size Increase for Combat Maneuvers.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Polymorph wrote:
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

Technically this does not apply as neither wildshape nor the bloodline power are spells, but I wouldn't bet on any GM seeing it that way.

You are right, so they would stack RAW. Thanks Fuzzy Wuzzy.


They shouldn't stack because their effects follow all of the rules of the listed spell(s). Enlarge Person says it doesn't stack with other effects that increase size, and Demonic Bulk functions as Enlarge Person, so Demonic Bulk won't stack with other effects that increase size.


As SheepishEidolon mentioned, it doesn't matter whether the effect is a spell. Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

Edit: citation fail, sorry!


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:( damn you SheepishEidolon.


blahpers wrote:

As SheepishEidolon mentioned, it doesn't matter whether the effect is a spell. Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

Edit: citation fail, sorry!

This FAQ might have been the citation you were thinking of.

FAQ wrote:

Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?

As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one. However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Atalius wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Polymorph wrote:
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

Technically this does not apply as neither wildshape nor the bloodline power are spells, but I wouldn't bet on any GM seeing it that way.

You are right, so they would stack RAW. Thanks Fuzzy Wuzzy.

But it doesn’t matter if it’s a spell or not, just that it’s a polymorph effect. Remember the whole spell section is written for “spells and magical effects” then immediately shortened to spells.


Indeed Fuzzy Wuzzy my friend. However, the rules continue to say "size" in this case its not changing my size as both forms are still medium so there is no size stacking purely RAW.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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Demonic Bulk is “as enlarge person” which won’t stack with any polymorph effect.


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1. neither ability is a spell so the entire spells not stacking with one and other is mute
2. the wild shape is not increasing the size so would stack with size increasing things(being able to have one size increasing effect at a time)
3.the enlarge effect from the bloodline happens no matter what, you enter a rage you get bigger weather you like it or not only way to get rid of that effect is to trade out the power for something else

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

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1) we have lots of FAQ on stacking that handle non stacking of spells and magical effects, so the spell stacking rules don’t require spells.
2) wild shape is a polymorph, enlarge doesn’t stack with polymorph whether or not it changes size.
3) yes, but if you have a polymorph it’s ignored.


James Risner wrote:

1) we have lots of FAQ on stacking that handle non stacking of spells and magical effects, so the spell stacking rules don’t require spells.

2) wild shape is a polymorph, enlarge doesn’t stack with polymorph whether or not it changes size.
3) yes, but if you have a polymorph it’s ignored.

functions as does not make it the same effect, and unless you can provide proof that they do function like that then they don't because they aren't spells and thus not subject to the limitations of spells just like how if they were using the supernatural ability on a creature with immunity to magic it would work on them because supernatural abilities are not limited to the rules of spells


Lady-J wrote:

1. neither ability is a spell so the entire spells not stacking with one and other is mute

2. the wild shape is not increasing the size so would stack with size increasing things(being able to have one size increasing effect at a time)
3.the enlarge effect from the bloodline happens no matter what, you enter a rage you get bigger weather you like it or not only way to get rid of that effect is to trade out the power for something else

i would like to take some time to admit there was a reading error on my party for #3 of this statement, the enlarge effect is optional and not forced i missed a word when reading the ability


Lady-J wrote:

1. neither ability is a spell so the entire spells not stacking with one and other is mute

2. the wild shape is not increasing the size so would stack with size increasing things(being able to have one size increasing effect at a time)
3.the enlarge effect from the bloodline happens no matter what, you enter a rage you get bigger weather you like it or not only way to get rid of that effect is to trade out the power for something else

1. This is a strawman. Nobody said that the ability is a spell, we said that it references the rules of a spell to determine how the ability functions. The rules of the spell outright state that it won't stack with other effects that increase size, whether it's from another spell (Giant Form), a supernatural ability (Wild Shape), or even an extraordinary ability (some Shapechange monster ability.

2. Yes, it does increase size. If it's an effect that doesn't say your new size is now your original size for all intents and purposes, and/or stacks with other size increasing effects as a result, you're left with an ability that follows the general rules with no specifics to override the general rules, which are that they won't stack with other size increasing effects based on the FAQ previously listed.

3. The Bloodline effect might work in, say, a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, which blocks all Spells, SLAs, and Spell-like effects from items. But if you're in an Anti-Magic Field, that effect won't take place because it's a Supernatural Ability that refers to a spell to determine its effects and restrictions, if any. Which in this case, it has them.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Lady-J wrote:

1. neither ability is a spell so the entire spells not stacking with one and other is mute

2. the wild shape is not increasing the size so would stack with size increasing things(being able to have one size increasing effect at a time)
3.the enlarge effect from the bloodline happens no matter what, you enter a rage you get bigger weather you like it or not only way to get rid of that effect is to trade out the power for something else

1. This is a strawman. Nobody said that the ability is a spell, we said that it references the rules of a spell to determine how the ability functions. The rules of the spell outright state that it won't stack with other effects that increase size, whether it's from another spell (Giant Form), a supernatural ability (Wild Shape), or even an extraordinary ability (some Shapechange monster ability.

2. Yes, it does increase size. If it's an effect that doesn't say your new size is now your original size for all intents and purposes, and/or stacks with other size increasing effects as a result, you're left with an ability that follows the general rules with no specifics to override the general rules, which are that they won't stack with other size increasing effects based on the FAQ previously listed.

3. The Bloodline effect might work in, say, a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability, which blocks all Spells, SLAs, and Spell-like effects from items. But if you're in an Anti-Magic Field, that effect won't take place because it's a Supernatural Ability that refers to a spell to determine its effects and restrictions, if any. Which in this case, it has them.

the rules only reference it as the spell creating the polymorph effect, the size increase faq only says that things who actually increase your size cant stack with each other and things that effectively increase your size cant stack with each other the wild shape isn't increasing their size so that point is mute


You're still missing the big picture here.

Demonic Bulk functions as Enlarge Person.

Enlarge Person doesn't stack with other effects that increase (or decrease) size.

Wild Shape, unless sticking to the same size (for example, switching to a 5x10 Lion piece isn't sticking to the same size, even though it's still a Medium creature), is an effect that increases (or possibly even decreases) size.

Therefore, Demonic Bulk doesn't stack with other effects that increase or decrease size.

It's a very traditional "A=B=C, so A=C" situation. I didn't need to mention spells or polymorphing or anything of that nature. All I referenced was one ability functioning like another ability that has a specific restriction that doesn't work with other abilities that adjust a certain statistic, meaning anything that doesn't work with the latter ability doesn't work with the former ability. It really is that simple.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

You're still missing the big picture here.

Demonic Bulk functions as Enlarge Person.

Enlarge Person doesn't stack with other effects that increase (or decrease) size.

Wild Shape, unless sticking to the same size (for example, switching to a 5x10 Lion piece isn't sticking to the same size, even though it's still a Medium creature), is an effect that increases (or possibly even decreases) size.

Therefore, Demonic Bulk doesn't stack with other effects that increase or decrease size.

It's a very traditional "A=B=C, so A=C" situation. I didn't need to mention spells or polymorphing or anything of that nature. All I referenced was one ability functioning like another ability that has a specific restriction that doesn't work with other abilities that adjust a certain statistic, meaning anything that doesn't work with the latter ability doesn't work with the former ability. It really is that simple.

the wild shape isn't changing size, so there is no stacking issue with the enlarge effect, the polymorph rules only apply to when your actually casting the spell so if they use the spell slot to cast the transform into x spell then the rule applies but they aren't so it does not


Lady-J wrote:
the polymorph rules only apply to when your actually casting the spell

This is not how Pathfinder rules work. When something works as a spell, it works as the spell. "This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here." Size change interactions are not in the noted exceptions, and thus wild shape works as the spell in that regard.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Please stop referring the size changing FAQ, as it isn’t relevant.

Enlarge Person effects do not stack with a Polymorph effect.


Lady-J wrote:
the wild shape isn't changing size, so there is no stacking issue with the enlarge effect, the polymorph rules only apply to when your actually casting the spell so if they use the spell slot to cast the transform into x spell then the rule applies but they aren't so it does not

At best, they would partially stack. Size bonuses to scores wouldn't stack with themselves, size penalties to scores (if any) would stack with themselves, and the creature would only be one size bigger than its normal size; which again, wouldn't actually apply if the spaces they occupy change as a result of their shape.

Even so, Polymorph Rules include more than just spells. Re-read this part here:

Polymorph Rules wrote:
If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.

Note the bolded part, including an example ability that isn't a spell as something that won't stack with other identical effects. The factor that they call out Wild Shape as an exception to Polymorph Spells not stacking should be a strong indicator that the Polymorph rules apply to all Polymorph effects, and not just spells.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
the wild shape isn't changing size, so there is no stacking issue with the enlarge effect, the polymorph rules only apply to when your actually casting the spell so if they use the spell slot to cast the transform into x spell then the rule applies but they aren't so it does not

At best, they would partially stack. Size bonuses to scores wouldn't stack with themselves, size penalties to scores (if any) would stack with themselves, and the creature would only be one size bigger than its normal size; which again, wouldn't actually apply if the spaces they occupy change as a result of their shape.

Even so, Polymorph Rules include more than just spells. Re-read this part here:

Polymorph Rules wrote:
If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.
Note the bolded part, including an example ability that isn't a spell as something that won't stack with other identical effects. The factor that they call out Wild Shape as an exception to Polymorph Spells not stacking should be a strong indicator that the Polymorph rules apply to all Polymorph effects, and not just spells.

just because something is called out for one rule doesn't mean its called out to function a certain way for all rules it needs to be called out separately in each case, and if something is turning from medium to medium there are no size bonuses exept for medium magical beasts which get a +4str and natural armor and there are no penalties involved from going medium to medium so they would get the size increase the dex penalty the ac penalty the cmb/cmd boost but not get the str boost from enlarge person


James Risner wrote:

Please stop referring the size changing FAQ, as it isn’t relevant.

Enlarge Person spells do not stack with a Polymorph spells.

fixed that for you

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Lady-J wrote:
James Risner wrote:

Please stop referring the size changing FAQ, as it isn’t relevant.

Enlarge Person spells do not stack with a Polymorph spells.

fixed that for you

All I can say is you are factually wrong with that statement, and there are lots of FAQ and developer comments to confirm you are wrong.

One example using a class ability, not a spell.


James Risner wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
James Risner wrote:

Please stop referring the size changing FAQ, as it isn’t relevant.

Enlarge Person spells do not stack with a Polymorph spells.

fixed that for you

All I can say is you are factually wrong with that statement, and there are lots of FAQ and developer comments to confirm you are wrong.

One example using a class ability, not a spell.

nothing in mark's statement contradicts what i'm saying, he said a non polymorph size increase cant stack with enlarge person which is supported by the rules

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

I don't know what you are saying then.

Spells don't matter, so it doesn't require a spell. Wild Shape is a Supernatural ability and it won't stack with Enlarge whether it is a spell or supernatural.

You have seemed to be to be continually saying because the Bulk effect is supernatural Enlarge Person it somehow doesn't count for spells.


James Risner wrote:

I don't know what you are saying then.

Spells don't matter, so it doesn't require a spell. Wild Shape is a Supernatural ability and it won't stack with Enlarge whether it is a spell or supernatural.

You have seemed to be to be continually saying because the Bulk effect is supernatural Enlarge Person it somehow doesn't count for spells.

what mark was saying was class feature size increase wont stack with enlarge person, wild shape is not a size increasing effect there for there is no issue

Grand Lodge

Alright, I'll take a stab at this.

Lady-J, the bloodline power says:

Demonic Bulk wrote:

Demonic Bulk (Su)

At 4th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can choose to grow one size category larger than your base size (as enlarge person) even if you aren’t humanoid.

So we know it functions as enlarge person in every way except obviously it's not a spell, it's an SU ability as marked in the power description.

Now let's look at the text of enlarge person:

Enlarge Person wrote:

This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature’s size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target’s speed.

If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it–the spell cannot be used to crush a creature by increasing its size.

All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see Table: Medium/Large Weapon Damage). Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.

Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

Enlarge person counters and dispels reduce person .

Enlarge person can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

Alright, so now we know that multiple magical effects that increase size don't stack. Which you seem to be saying doesn't matter because we're using abilities that aren't actually spells.

So now let's look at the description of SU abilities:

SU Abilities wrote:

Supernatural Abilities (Su)

Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability’s effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells.

And what type of ability is wild shape again?

Wild Shape wrote:
Wild Shape (Su)

Oh it's another SU ability. Which are magical. So we have 2 magical abilities that change size, one of which states it doesn't stack with anything else that increases size.

So no, you can't use Wild Shape and Demonic Bulk together to increase your size twice.

But hey, maybe this all means nothing and you're right anyways Lady-J. James did once tell me that "Considering language is never static, we shouldn't be so certain how things work." ;)


Jurassic Pratt wrote:

Alright, I'll take a stab at this.

Lady-J, the bloodline power says:

Demonic Bulk wrote:

Demonic Bulk (Su)

At 4th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can choose to grow one size category larger than your base size (as enlarge person) even if you aren’t humanoid.

So we know it functions as enlarge person in every way except obviously it's not a spell, it's an SU ability as marked in the power description.

Now let's look at the text of enlarge person:

Enlarge Person wrote:

This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature’s size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target’s speed.

If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it–the spell cannot be used to crush a creature by increasing its size.

All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee weapons affected by this spell deal more damage (see Table: Medium/Large Weapon Damage). Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown and projectile weapons deal their normal damage. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.

Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

Enlarge person counters and dispels reduce person .

Enlarge person can be

...

no you have one magical ability that changes size and one that changed form

Grand Lodge

Hence the last line of my post. You could very well be right from James' own logic.


Lady J is saying wild shape isn't changing the size of the creature in this specific example. Its certainly a polymorph effect, but no size is being changed. Demonic bulk is a size effect for sure. Certainly RAI I would agree these two won't stack. But purely RAW a word or two may be missing.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Does not work

Same as Alter Self + Enlarge Person

The Exchange

i could almost see your logic that it may work because you didnt change size, except you did receive a size adjustment to a stat, so are under a size change. rules are no 2 stacks.


Jeff Morse wrote:
i could almost see your logic that it may work because you didnt change size, except you did receive a size adjustment to a stat, so are under a size change. rules are no 2 stacks.

True


Jeff Morse wrote:
i could almost see your logic that it may work because you didnt change size, except you did receive a size adjustment to a stat, so are under a size change. rules are no 2 stacks.

which would mean they would get the better of the 2 stat effects since they don't stack but they overlap just like if some one has a +2 str belt and some one uses bull strength spell on them they would get the +4 str as opposed to the +2 str


Lady-J wrote:
1. neither ability is a spell so the entire spells not stacking with one and other is mute

They both function as Spells. Demonic Bulk functions as Enlarge Person, and Wild Shape Functions as Beast Shape.

Lady-J wrote:
functions as does not make it the same effect,

Uh, maybe I guess. But Demonic Bulk does function as Enlarge Person. And how does Enlarge Person function? Well,

Enlarge Person wrote:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

Can you demonstrate that Demonic Bulk functions differently from Enlarge Person in this matter?

Lady-J wrote:
2. the wild shape is not increasing the size so would stack with size increasing things(being able to have one size increasing effect at a time)

Wild Shape does increase your Size when you use it to increase your Size. If I were a Size Medium Human who Wild Shaped into a Size Huge Allosaurus, well, then my size increased, didn't it? I'm pretty sure that increasing size = becoming bigger than I was, and Huge is bigger than Medium.

Can you demonstrate with the rules that you can go from size Medium to a larger size without increasing your size? The fact that I am changing my shape, too doesn't mean I am not changing my size.

Also, remember that Demonic Bulk only lets you "grow one size category larger than your base size." If I Polymorph from a Size Medium Human into a Size Huge Warcat, my base size is still Medium, isn't it? I don't think Polymorphed Size = Base Size.

Wild Shaping from a Size Medium Human into a Size Medium Leopard, and then Bloodraging with Demonic Bulk to grow 1 size bigger seems kosher to me. Both Wild Shape (in this case) and Enlarge Person grant a +2 size bonus to Strength, and size bonuses to Strength don't stack, so your Strength only goes up by +2 between them, and Enlarge Person still bumps your Dexterity down by -2. But your Claws do Damage like Size Large: Base Damage for a Size Medium Bloodrager Claws is 1d6, bumped up 1 Size makes it 1d8.

Lady-J wrote:
if some one has a +2 str belt and some one uses bull strength spell on them they would get the +4 str as opposed to the +2 str

Yes. And of course, Bull Strength and the Belt of Strength grant Enhancement Bonuses to Strength, which would stack with the Size Bonus to Strength due to Wild Shape, Enlarge Person, or Demonic Bulk. These would also stack with the Alchemal Strength Mutagen, which is an Alchcemal Bonus to Strength. Plus, Bloodraging grants a +4 morale bonus to Strength, which stacks with all of the above.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
1. neither ability is a spell so the entire spells not stacking with one and other is mute

They both function as Spells. Demonic Bulk functions as Enlarge Person, and Wild Shape Functions as Beast Shape.

Lady-J wrote:
functions as does not make it the same effect,

Uh, maybe I guess. But Demonic Bulk does function as Enlarge Person. And how does Enlarge Person function? Well,

Enlarge Person wrote:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

Can you demonstrate that Demonic Bulk functions differently from Enlarge Person in this matter?

Lady-J wrote:
2. the wild shape is not increasing the size so would stack with size increasing things(being able to have one size increasing effect at a time)

Wild Shape does increase your Size when you use it to increase your Size. If I were a Size Medium Human who Wild Shaped into a Size Huge Allosaurus, well, then my size increased, didn't it? I'm pretty sure that increasing size = becoming bigger than I was, and Huge is bigger than Medium.

Can you demonstrate with the rules that you can go from size Medium to a larger size without increasing your size? The fact that I am changing my shape, too doesn't mean I am not changing my size.

Also, remember that Demonic Bulk only lets you "grow one size category larger than your base size." If I Polymorph from a Size Medium Human into a Size Huge Warcat, my base size is still Medium, isn't it? I don't think Polymorphed Size = Base Size.

Wild Shaping from a Size Medium Human into a Size Medium Leopard, and then Bloodraging with Demonic Bulk to grow 1 size bigger seems kosher to me. Both Wild Shape (in this case) and Enlarge Person grant a +2 size bonus to Strength, and size bonuses to Strength don't stack, so your Strength only goes up by +2 between them, and Enlarge Person still bumps your Dexterity down by -2. But your Claws do Damage like Size Large: Base Damage for a Size Medium Bloodrager Claws is 1d6, bumped up...

please note we are talking about using wildshape to go from one medium creature to another medium creature

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The answer lies in the last sentence below

Paizo PRD: Magic Chapter: Transmutation School: Polymorph Sub-School:

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.

In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.


The Raven Black wrote:

The answer lies in the last sentence below

Paizo PRD: Magic Chapter: Transmutation School: Polymorph Sub-School:

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.

In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

that's besides the point as there are no spells being used here


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Lady-J wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

The answer lies in the last sentence below

Paizo PRD: Magic Chapter: Transmutation School: Polymorph Sub-School:

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.

In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

that's besides the point as there are no spells being used here

Nope. Raven's got us. Wild Shape functions as Beast Shape Spells "Except as follows" in the Druid Class Description. Does it say there that Druids can benefit from Spells that enhance their Size? If it doesn't say it there, then we don't get it.

I don't like the fact that Druids have a Size limit on Animals they can turn into. I feel like a a sufficiently high level Druid should be able to turn into a Colossal Animal. As it is, a Druid can't even Wildshape into a T-Rex. And honestly, what Druid doesn't want to?


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

The answer lies in the last sentence below

Paizo PRD: Magic Chapter: Transmutation School: Polymorph Sub-School:

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.

In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

that's besides the point as there are no spells being used here

Nope. Raven's got us. Wild Shape functions as Beast Shape Spells "Except as follows" in the Druid Class Description. Does it say there that Druids can benefit from Spells that enhance their Size? If it doesn't say it there, then we don't get it.

I don't like the fact that Druids have a Size limit on Animals they can turn into. I feel like a a sufficiently high level Druid should be able to turn into a Colossal Animal. As it is, a Druid can't even Wildshape into a T-Rex. And honestly, what Druid doesn't want to?

Lmao

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

We have meandered back to Saturday afternoon.

Which is to say that a medium human wild shaped into a medium Wolf (a polymorph effect) gains no benefit from Demomic Bulk as it is ignored while under the effects of a polymorph spell or magical effect.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
I don't like the fact that Druids have a Size limit on Animals they can turn into. I feel like a a sufficiently high level Druid should be able to turn into a Colossal Animal. As it is, a Druid can't even Wildshape into a T-Rex. And honestly, what Druid doesn't want to?

I KNOW RIGHT???


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

The answer lies in the last sentence below

Paizo PRD: Magic Chapter: Transmutation School: Polymorph Sub-School:

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.

In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

that's besides the point as there are no spells being used here

Nope. Raven's got us. Wild Shape functions as Beast Shape Spells "Except as follows" in the Druid Class Description. Does it say there that Druids can benefit from Spells that enhance their Size? If it doesn't say it there, then we don't get it.

I don't like the fact that Druids have a Size limit on Animals they can turn into. I feel like a a sufficiently high level Druid should be able to turn into a Colossal Animal. As it is, a Druid can't even Wildshape into a T-Rex. And honestly, what Druid doesn't want to?

functioning as a spell doesn't make it a spell there for there is no issue here

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

It doesn’t Matter whether or not it’s a spell.


James Risner wrote:
It doesn’t Matter whether or not it’s a spell.

but it does, as only the effects in spell form prevent things from working together

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