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So, I originally posted this in the "Other RPGS" section since it most recently happened with a non-Paizo game, however that forum doesn't get as much traffic, plus I HAVE had this issue with a Pathfinder game too, so I'm reposting it here..
Okay, so this has never been an issue before, but lately I'm running into players that seem to think that games should take place day-to-day like a soap opera (vs. like a TV show like for example, Lucifer on a recent show we found out that it's been about a year or so since Lucifer first met Chloe, whereas if it was day to day with each episode being a day, it would only two months) where each game session picks up where the last one left off and there is NO downtime or anything... one 'story' ends and the next one springs literally off that one or else if it doesn't then... uh... how was your date last night with the princess?
I'm kinda confused, as I've been gaming since the 80's and never have I ever played or ran in a game like that that wasn't specially intended to be so (and they got boring as **** fast)
So, what's the deal? Why am I getting so many players APALLED that I would 'skip a few days or weeks' for the players to train, etc before the next 'adventure'?
Have you asked them?
Asking strangers to read your player's minds might be less fruitful than simply asking them why they enjoy playing that way. Learning more about their play-style could make you a much better GM.
But if you don't want to engage with your players, then I suppose broad generalizations about why people play the way they do might be interesting
Give them something to do with downtime then. Give them a store or a base that can be improved with the work of the PCs. Let them roll or whatnot for the days, weeks, etc. that you want to skip.
Alternatively ask your PCs for a long-term goal their characters want and see if you can have them work towards it. Like if a characters wants revenge on a gang leader for murdering their dad, you can have the PC gather information about the gang, tail their subordinates, or try bribing their informants.
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Well, the two recently players insisted that they didn't want a sandbox and were just blaming me for everything even though I had no idea where I was even going wrong... and even when they told me it didn't make sense because what they were describing was a freakin' sandbox game.
Then I am trying to get another game together on Roll20 and have had a few people apparently thinking that there should be NO DOWNTIME. AT ALL. This being the only proper way to do roleplaying games and so it's confusing me...
So right now there are no players, just potential players that are apparently thinking no roleplaying game ever should have any 'downtime' whatsoever.
As I said, I've never even played in a game like that so it makes no sense how this approach is the 'standard' now (and always has been?)
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Ultimate Campaign.
I feel that the most important skill a GM can cultivate is "reading the room" which applies here. You can make a cooperative storytelling game about literally anything so if there is a particular aspect of the diagesis that your players are interested in, it's fine to indulge that a little, or even a whole lot of it's a thing you would enjoy too.
I have run and played in games at both extremes of the spectrum; ones that are virtually all day-to-day stuff and the more personal drama that involves and ones that are all about cosmic or world-shattering events and both are fun. D&D is not traditionally the former, but there is no reason you can't run it as such.
Since these games are ideally supportive spaces shared with friends, it doesn't hurt to try something you haven't tried before; worst case scenario is that you have to stop and figure out why it's not working and if it's salvageable.
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I think you and your potential players are making more out of this than perhaps you should.
There are people (like you) who prefer a more episodic game. There are distinct periods of action and periods of downtime. These periods are predetermined, usually by the GM.
There are other people (like some of your players) who prefer a more continuous game. Again, there are distinct periods of action and periods of downtime. But, they happen organically and are usually decided by the players.
At the gaming table, I think both styles of gaming end up looking about the same. The boring moments are "fast forwarded". Maybe stuff happens in the background (aka downtime activities). The PCs win the day. Hopefully, a good time is had by all.
The good news is that you can take an episodic game and make it a continuous game. Just pretend you are streaming a TV series. At the end of an episode, your players have 15 seconds to hit pause or the next episode begins (without bathroom break). They'll never know they are playing an episodic game. Just don't use the word "downtime".
Well, its' not just using the word downtime that is the problem, like here is the example to go with Buffy (but a bit of paraphrasing as I don't remember all the details of the first season.)
Okay, so first episode is the beginning of the school year, her sophomore year. Luke shows up, gets staked, fun is had by all (except those Luke killed.) Next episode is Amy's mom trying to relive her glory days by stealing Amy's body. She ends up getting trapped in the old cheerleader statue. Then next we have the homecoming dance. Wait, we went from the beginning of the school year to Homecoming in only three episodes?
Plus, the other problem was apparently the players thought we were going to play out every school day even if nothing big was going on? Talking about stuff at lunch like Buffy does... Spiders crawling out of the books and the whole class running during a class... Okay, but if nothing big happened during Latin class, do we really need to go through each class? I never intended that, never said I intended that, but apparently the players assumed that's what we'd be doing and when I said we were skipping a month to the Homecoming game they went ballistic (yes, the characters were still in high school, but my reason was to be a kinda Buffy type thing where they were still in school, but also had to fight supernatural threats.)
(Also, yes my most recent game wasn't Pathfinder, but my previous Pathfinder game suffered from the same problem (same players too) but what annoys me is that I am sure I was clear how I run games, but they seemed to still expect day-to-day even after that Pathfinder game imploded and we tried a different game system. I've already decided not to play with THOSE players ever again, but now I'm kinda looking for advice how to keep this disconnect from happening in the future, especially when I've had potential players go "wait what, why would you ever skip a few days?")
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My guess would be that the problem your players have with your proposed approach of skipping chunks of time is that they feel it is taking away from their player agency. They have a point there, in that if you say 'several months later a mysterious stranger walks into the bar where you all are' they lose the opportunity to define what their characters were doing during those months and also, of course, that they have to be at that bar.
At the same time, you certainly have a point about skipping the boring bits.
Obviously, the best solution is to talk to them, make sure you understand the problem and ask, and listen to their solutions, and see if you can find something that works for everyone.
One idea might be giving them the chance to do off game character development. Basically, they would have the option (not the requirement) to write up things their characters do during the downtime. You would, at the end of a session, let them know how much time they have to work with, and where they need to be when the action is going to resume, but they can fill in the details of their lives in the meantime. Some basic rules like they can't gain any real wealth or power during this period (beyond what the rules would generally allow like making magic items if that is allowed in the game) but they can gain more nebulous things, at your discretion. A good example would be contacts that you can later incorporate into the game, so if the doughty investigator tells of working with the local constabulary to solve some gruesome murders, the Constable might show up in later sessions already favorably inclined to the investigator.
This can add a lot to a game, let players feel that they are in control of their characters, and provide some real benefit to contributing to the world building, without unduly penalizing those players that don't have the time or inclination to contribute in this fashion and are happy with just playing the exciting parts.
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They have a point there, in that if you say 'several months later a mysterious stranger walks into the bar where you all are' they lose the opportunity to define what their characters were doing during those months and also, of course, that they have to be at that bar.
I totally understand that, and yeah I actually intended to ask them about such things about what they were doing, but they didn't give me the chance. So I just changed to a day-to-day format and most of our games became them chatting about stuff and.. me trying to have NPCs tell them about the latest threat (which some was having to be compressed because I'm sorry I'm not playing out every day between the start of school and Homecoming with nothing happening in the supernatural venue so something has to happen) them telling the NPCs to piss off, they have class, even when they outright knew that the Foreign language teacher would pull strings for them to not get expelled if they had to miss class for supernatural reasons. *facepalm*
Ultimate Campaign.
Thanks for the bump.
It totally depends what you and the players want the game to be about. If you want to play out day to day stuff - which involves a lot of general roleplaying chatting about nothing in particular - that's fine.
Starting in media res - "You're patrolling in the graveyard, when a fish demon steps out and takes a swing at you" is fine too.
And skipping downtime - "Nothing much interesting happens in next 3 months, until the championship swimming team wins the state cup."
Or part-skipping downtime - "3 months pass. Is there anything in particular your characters want to try to accomplish? OK, you've flirted a bit with the head cheerleader, but haven't asked her out just yet..."
The best - and really ONLY - way to establish this, is to work with the players before the game starts to come up with a system that suits them. Establish that you'll be setting up a game with lots of downtime, where you'll be skipping upwards of 5 years at a time. Or that your campaign will take place over 5 in game days. Or that the entire game will be run in real-time. As long as you and your players agree in advance, that's the best resolution.
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Well, yea see part of the problem is they say they want one thing, but then when I do that they say that's not what they want.
So, when I was going to skip a month to the next story plot they got mad because I was skipping "character development" time... okay so day to day then? Okay, so we're doing day to day, actual high school classes each hour by hour and when I tried to skip to lunch they got mad... but then when I talk to them about this, they say no we never said we wanted day to day... so if they don't want day to day, then why do they get so mad when I say we're skipping to lunch hour? Makes no sense...
Like I said, I've been roleplaying since the 80's and GMing too, and I've never had issues like this... which is why I even made this thread because has roleplaying really changed that much recently or am I just running into players I don't mesh with for the first time ever?
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Well, and another thing is there is more than one player and they aren't the same character type. So, to give a Pathfinder example, say that an NPC is telling the cleric the history of the Temple of Calistria. Now (again for example purposes) let's say that this information is all in the book and the players have access to the book.
Should I be roleplaying out the priestess teaching the cleric of Calistria the entire history of the temple, or give a bit of it, but then say that she teaches you the entire history of the temple? Remember, there are other characters that are not present at this history lesson.
Sometimes it seemed one of their complaints was that I was glossing over such things as that... NPC telling their character things they needed to know. When I 'skipped' the month it was my intent that they would get their lessons, but... they wanted to RP out the freakin' lessons? When only one player is even learning them? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?