Order's Wrath vs Chaotic Outsider


Rules Questions


In the spell Order's Wrath, what is meant by Chaotic Outsider?
Is this any outsider that happens to have a chaotic alignment, or is it some particular type of outsider?

Silver Crusade

The former I'd say.


It means an outsider with the chaotic alignment sub-type, such as a demon or an azata.


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I believe it applies to outsiders of chaotic alignment. Note however that this will also apply to outsiders with the (chaotic) subtype regardless of alignment.

PRD, monster types ans subtypes wrote:
Chaotic Subtype: This subtype is usually applied to outsiders native to the chaotically aligned outer planes. Most creatures that have this subtype also have chaotic alignments; however, if their alignments change they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature had a chaotic alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the chaotic subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields are chaotically aligned (see Damage Reduction).


I have always read those spells to mean Outsider [Chaotic], regardless of alignment.


To expand on my earlier comment my understanding is that the outsider must have the chaotic alignment sub-type to take the extra damage. Its actual alignment isn't important.

So a CE Tiefling wouldn't take the extra damage because, unlike say a demon, it doesn't have the chaotic sub-type.


I am under the impression that creature subtypes have to be called out explicitely. So 'chaotic outsiders' would be more general than 'outsiders with the chaotic subtype'.

Another pointer is context within the text:

CRB wrote:
The spell deals 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d8) to chaotic creatures (or 1d6 points of damage per caster level, maximum 10d6, to chaotic outsiders) and causes them to be dazed for 1 round.

It mentions 'chaotic creatures' first, then 'chaotic outsiders' within the same sentence. It makes more sense if the word 'chaotic' means the same in both cases: The alignment. The word being used for an alignment first and a descriptor second would be counterintuitive.

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