So I am thinking of GMing a game of Kingmaker on here. I dont have a ton of experience with pathfinder play by post. Ive been on the site for a while and Im finally a part of an ongoing game on the website. I play a good bit in person and I think that pbp for a dice roll based game can be hard. Slowing things down makes it harder to stay action focused and interested. I think a good way to balance that out is to have a lot of good opportunity for roleplaying and non-combat situations. Kingmaker seems like an AP that does that very well to me. I've unfortunately never gotten to play all the way through Kingmaker but it was the second set of books that I bought after falling in love with the idea. Kingmaker has the potential for a lot of in depth, political roleplay while also maintaining a sense of getting out there and adventuring. But what gave me the idea for this campaign in particular is basically blatantly stolen from another game I saw on here recruiting witches for a coven themed kingmaker. So basically here is what Im looking for in this thread:
Advice: Have you ever run a themed game? If so how did it go? What were the up and downsides of having everyone be X or play Y? Did you put in especially harsh limitations or just lenient ones? What were your reasons for running a game with a particular theme in mind?
Interest Check: Would people be interested? The coven game got a lot of applications and I saw an all dwarves game that sounded great which also got a number of neat submissions. But Id still like to hear from people whether there is more interest to sustain another in depth ap.
Whats the Theme? I dont know yet. I haven't chosen one. Racial themes were the first thing that came to mind. Altering Kingmaker itself wouldn't be a problem for me if we need a reason a group of particularly odd creatures or heroes [or villains?] were going out to reclaim the Stolen Lands. Just to spit ball some ideas things that I might be interested in doing: Evil Empire, Shoanti Tribesman, Dhampir/Undead, Goblins. And Im open to hearing what other people might be interested in. If I see a lot of one thing or another its more likely ill consider it for the final campaign.
Kingmaker always get a lot of interest.
Someone floated the idea of an all kobold Kingmaker a while back; that seems fun but would probably require high point buy or good rolled stats to counteract their general weakness.
A concept I’ve always wanted to run in Kingmaker is a party trying to reestablish a free Rostland ruled by the Aldori Swordpact; Run it as a Gestalt game, but one side has to be the Aldori Swordlord Fighter archetype (or something similar, maybe Swashbuckler). That gives a coherent theme but still leaves plenty of room for characters to play different roles.
But what gave me the idea for this campaign in particular is basically blatantly stolen from another game I saw on here recruiting witches for a coven themed kingmaker.
Glad to see my recruitment was that interesting! I was helped by the fact that Blood of the Coven had just come out so there was a lot of variety that could be done.
If possible I'd suggest theming by race rather than class. I quite like the Aldori Swordlords idea, but being forced to have a combat side of a gestalt won't be everyone's cup of tea - especially if you want spellcasting on your other side.
Advice: So far there's been no downside. Them all playing the same race hasn't made any difference yet (although its not as though they're something really different like Orcs...) The only changes involved really are small one like tweaking a favoured enemy and I don;t even need to write that stuff down.
Theme: The nice thing about Kingmaker is that its hugely flexible - since its written as an AP (and therefore light on detail) the players can change it pretty easily. I'm already in 2 Kingmaker games so I probably wont apply, but good luck!
If you do a tribe of goblins, it could be very interesting. Evil empire is a good theme as well. If you really want a challenge, repurpose it under starfinder rules and do a crew that has crashed upon the surface and has no way home.
The time frame for KM is flexible so you can run a whole political intrigue side quest without messing up the flow of the game. Little things that humanize their cities and their day to day life are a must. Make them care about their kingdom.
Creating a goblin nation would be the bomb, as an evil nation or just a purely chaotic one that sends neighboring nations' politics spiraling out of control. Maybe even face a npc party of adventures trying to dethrone the goblin monarchs.
In any cause, I'm interested in a themed KM, whatever it may be.
I love Kingmaker, and generally apply to just about any KM recruitment I come across.
But you should be aware that a Kingmaker game is a LOT of work. It is definitely not the kind of campaign I would recommend for someone that is new to PbP. You are setting yourself up for having a LOT to do. I have been in a lot of kingmaker games where the GM gave up and disappeared.
If you feel up to it, then Great! But be aware that almost any AP would be easier to run than Kingmaker.
We wound up with a kind of themed Jade Regent. 2 of us were playing teenage girls who were planning on going to sort out Sandpoint's goblin problems. So we talked the 3rd player into playing a teenage girl too. And the teenage girls killed or drove away the goblins.
On a theme, a Drow themed Kingmaker appeals to me. So did the Changling themed game which is an idea good enough it deserves to be ripped off.
I love the idea of themed games, but haven’t really played one. I’m definiteky intrigued, but it would depend on the theme.
I'm running two tables of Kingmaker at the moment and have found the first book is poor for PBP as it stands. It's basically wander the map and fight whatever you run into, with a few spots of local color to make the players feel they're actually exploring.
Starting off with a themed run of Kingmaker is a good idea, as long as you adjust the adventure to fit the theme. Change the encounters and locals to go with the needs of your chosen theme.
Some themes that would easily work with Kingmaker:
The evil party. "Those swine in Restov are sending some pests to map our territory? Not if we have anything to do with it!" Replace the Staglord and his scum with your group, have them scrambling to conquer the Stolen lands and get a reasonable facsimile of a nation set up first. Bonus points if they wipe out the heroes send to explore. :)
The all one race party. "The stolen lands are wide open for us to take for ourselves. You lot go and get rid of any humans in the way!" Orcs, Hobgoblins, Kobolds. Any race could fit that theme.
One theme I saw mentioned years ago, but haven't seen anyone use. The stolen lands as the wild west. Make firearms common, add Gunslingers and Alchemists to the opposition and watch the fireworks.
Hope that helps, any questions just ask, I'm happy to help.
Someone floated the idea of an all kobold Kingmaker a while back; that seems fun but would probably require high point buy or good rolled stats to counteract their general weakness.
As someone who adores playing the little buggers, the idea of an all Kobold Kingmaker really gets my creative juices swirling. But I don't think you'd need high stats to make it work. It will simply shift from being a delve into the wilderness to being all about defense. Kobolds are famous for their fascination with mining, traps, and being sneaky little nuts. So, a "Koboldmaker" campaign would need to focus on them fighting off the threats coming to them.
As an example, the game starts off with the PCs tribe being tasked by their dragon ruler to guard her eggs while she is gone. Their job should be to patrol for danger, set up traps and alarms, and help expand the tunnels. And everything nearby now wants her treasures now the dragon is out of the picture. So in essence, you already have a king (dragon) and your tribe is supposed to help him survive hatching.
Themes...
(1) Knightly Order. Hasn’t been seen before and could get some unique party compositions.
(2) All one race. Elves. Goblins. Dwarves. Duergar. Drow. Any would get a bunch. Having it set in the underdark? That would be interesting, to say the least.
(3) Hell Knights making a fortress....kinda like 1 but darker.
Also for knightly order, one cool thing that could be done is free VMC Cavalier. Giving actual cavaliers free VMC Fighter. All PCs must be from the same order.
Makes for a cohesive theme where everyone is mechanically a Knight regardless of class.
I would be interested in this. Knightly order sounds fun, so does all-one-race. Goblins would be hilarious, so would halflings.
Or Grippli. I could unearth Krrr Maat, the megalomaniac cleric of Asmodeus, who will not rest until all Grippli recite "There is no god but Asmodeus and Krrr Maat is his Prophet" religiously.
Koboldmaker or knightmaker both sound like awesome ideas, I'd be interested in playing either.
Or.... Goblin knights... *runs from thread*
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Or.... Goblin knights... *runs from thread*
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A Druidic circle would be fun too. Lean toward a party composed of Druids, Hunters, Rangers, Shifters, Green Faith Marshal Inquisitors, throw in some arcane support from Nature- or Fey-themed bloodlines, and there you go. Forget human subjects, we’re going to Awaken all the animals and trees in the forest!
Maybe a group of worshippers of a deity who's not common in Brevoy, seeking to found their own church/area of influence/theocracy?
advice: I'm running a version of RotRL where every PC is tied to one of the 6 gods worshiped at the Sandpoint Cathedral and its been going really well- all the PCs have a built in relationship with each other, the town, some NPC who have become important to the story... I think themed groups are great just in general but from my experience it seems like you (the GM) can make them even greater by playing up the theme (replace a couple NPCs with guys related to the theme somehow, switch out some enemies for ones that resonate with the theme, etc).
interest: I really like themed games (and will have a lot more free time in about a week) so I would probably apply if it's a theme I find appealing. I'm not really into evil parties or drow/goblinoids/kobolds, so I probably wouldn't apply for any of those but if you went with swordlords or knights or something else I was into, I really might.
themes: I like the knights/swordlords ideas, and I like the druidic or theocratic themes (and both of those leave a lot of options, from full BAB classes like pally/ranger all the way to full-casters). I like the Shoanti tribesmen idea too. Other ideas off the top of my head: all elves looking to establish a nation outside of Kyonin (either because of some disagreement or just kind of an expansion); all members of an old Varisian family that has become so big/wealthy/influential that they've decided settle down and start a kingdom of their own; all androids... ; or maybe do a group from Tian Xia... their lord made a treaty to secure their right to establish a kingdom in Avistan while a similar party from Brevoy is on a similar mission on the outskirts of the Dragon Empire... great chance for people to play samurai/ninja/kitsune and other asian flavored stuff that doesn't show up often in Pathfinder?
Advice: I did an all wizards Crypt of the Everflame run. I was expecting a lot of creative problem solving but it was pretty normal really (still a lot of fun). Definitely some interesting moments, like a certain imaginary goat... But anyways, yes I was lenient about it and somewhat regret it, but hindsight is 20/20. One was a melee wizard, one a spellslinger...really pretty far from the original concept of just robes and spellbooks.
Interest: No need to ask really, there will always be interest for a paizo AP here. I have never had luck with sandbox pbp though, not saying it cant be done but I obviously am missing something.
if a high ranking noble got their hands on a Numerian artifact he/she could have ended up with 4-6 androids that all look exactly like him/her but have different functions (like different stats/classes/etc)
That sounds badass to me.
I'm not sure if this would qualify as advice or not, but I thought I would make a suggestion for you regarding the sandbox nature of this game: make it a literal box.
Or, more accurately, make the sandbox fit into one big map box. I think sandbox games are awesome, but one thing I notice is that the maps are... big. Like, each scenario is several hours, if not days, of hiking to get to. I think that strains the speed of the game a bit, particularly in PbP. Not to mention, it makes logistics for both the players and the GM a moderate problem. The GM has to have multiple maps and tokens and sets of notes ready for each scenario, and the players may feel a need to backtrack or drag their loot back to home base to organize and set things up.
A single map makes things a bit more streamlined, compact, and visually manageable. Now, I still love the Kobold campaign idea, so I might only be thinking in those terms, but if your home base is at the center of a whole lot of various points of interest close by, it makes it a bit more inviting to venture forth. It's easier to investigate the cluster of Fey in a grove 100 feet to the north instead of a days hike. And the need to rush home and prepare for battle becomes a bit more feasible when that gang of bandits can be seen across the map by eagle eyed PCs. It may also make the world feel more malleable if potential solutions for creative players are only a short walk away.
Perhaps a game working to establish a deposed royal with all the party working as advisors would be interesting, especially if races or nation was play with to mess with stereotypes.
I've always been interested in a Kingmaker game, but have never had the chance to play one.
As a possible example of my above suggestion, I will try to offer a brief idea of things you could use to populate a small map with a lot of things.
A square map about 600 feet could be divided in 9 quadrants of 200 foot squares, labeling the top left section as Q1 and the bottom right being Q9, with Q5 being the center, anywhere the PCs start their little fort. The ruins of an old dwarves fort lie here, which could serve as an excellent settlement foundation... but first, they need to evict the current resident, a surly tatzlwyrm who has claimed the location as his own.
Q1 - A small time group of bandits have an encampment here. After the first day, they'll probably realize the PCs are here and come looking to rob them.
Q2 - An ancient shrine lies lost to the overgrown surroundings of a magical grove, watched over by a playful, if irritating, collection of Fey. Putting up with their games might earn their favor, but attacking them may bring about the wrath of the local dryad.
Q3 - A hunter cabin sits abandoned in the corner. Who knows what hides in there... Could make for a good temporary shelter, though!
Q4 - A few geysers regularly spray hot water into the air in this location. They feed the lake that sits to the south.
Q6 - The most reasonable exit and entrance to this location, a simple clearing that leads to the main road beyond. At night, vigilant players might notice that one of the trees seems to get up and relocate to a new location before dawn...
Q7 - A small island sits in the center of this lake. Could be a good fishing hole and source of water if the PCs can come to an agreement with the tidepool dragon who calls the lake his domain.
Q8 - The forest gives way to rocky outcroppings here, that grow steadily into craggy cliffs going east (Q9). Might make for a good work site for a mason, assuming nothing is hiding among the rocks.
Q9 - A relatively tall set of cliffs leafing into a plateau. An abandoned mine and a pair of territorial harpies can be found here.
Those are just some random examples I thought I would throw out. You can do quite a lot with 200 square feet, and still make the world feel varied and open. Just a thought!
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Also, I know I'm getting a bit spammy, but this theme crossed my mind as well: all vigilante party.
Instead of a traditional jungle, it's an urban jungle. The bandits are criminal gangs and big bads are super villains. And the PCs are forming a Justice League or Avengers team to help clean up/retake the city!
Call it... Heromaker?
Also, I know I'm getting a bit spammy, but this theme crossed my mind as well: all vigilante party.
Instead of a traditional jungle, it's an urban jungle. The bandits are criminal gangs and big bads are super villains. And the PCs are forming a Justice League or Avengers team to help clean up/retake the city!
Call it... Heromaker?
Now this is an idea! You could combine it with the 'smaller map' idea quite well. Go for a more Assassins Creed Syndicate style where your books/missions etc are built more around people and their influence than on areas. So book 1 could be about establishing yourselves in the relatively poor district by taking down a local drug ring (or eliminating the leaders and running it themselves). Thus they gain the favour of certain prominent citizens and the local populace and can begin drawing on that area for resources.
Then move on to other areas of the city - it's no exploring per-say, everyone knows where things are, but its more about learning, who's who in which area? Why does everyone avoid the old shrine to Sarenrae in the Sunset district? Who is this Laughing Jackal that seems to keep Castle Mound so quiet, and does he really have a devil that crawls out of his coat?
This would end up being a huge Hell's Rebels/Curse of the Crimson Throne/Kingmaker/War of the Crown type AP I think - sounds awesome! You interested in discussing it some more Captain Ford?
I have played in multiple Kingmaker PbP's that never made it much further than the first chapter of the first adventure. In almost all of them I have played a character who had a personal goal of establishing not so much a Halfling nation (culturally, Golarion Halflings don't seem to think that way) but at least a pro-halfling nation. So I would certainly be interested.
Shiremaker: an order of halfling knights dedicated to creating a new nation where all pipeweed is created equal... which deity would they be dedicated to?
Shiremaker: an order of halfling knights dedicated to creating a new nation where all pipeweed is created equal... which deity would they be dedicated to?
Probably Desna, because of the whole wanderlust thing. I could see a large Norberger sect as well though that could potentially cause some problems.
Shiremaker: an order of halfling knights dedicated to creating a new nation where all pipeweed is created equal... which deity would they be dedicated to?
Chaldira Zuzaristan, I'd think.
Shiremaker: an order of halfling knights dedicated to creating a new nation where all pipeweed is created equal... which deity would they be dedicated to?
Zon-Kuthon... err I mean not Kuthon... um this god Bob... yeah, that's it, Bob the god of harmless fun.
I'm currently playing Reign of Winter with the "theme" that everyone must get a bear and ride it come at least level 7. Bonus point for firearms proficiency, although that one isn't strictly required.
We're only four levels into it so far, but having multiple mounted characters has added an interesting aspect to the game, to be sure.
Advice: Pick a theme you're passionate about! That'll help to keep the game running. Also, going with an overly gimmicky theme for a few quick laughs followed by a miserable game where everyone has to play a blind gnome shifter is a bad idea.
Interest Check: I'm definitely interested. Some of the most fun experiences I've had in Pathfinder have been while playing Kingmaker.
Theme: The knightly order other have proposed before interests me greatly. Whether it's members of an existing order seeking to expand it's power or a group seeking to found a new knightly order is up to you. I'd be more interested in founding a new knightly order, perhaps even being able to create your own cavalier order. Not everyone needs to be a knight in the traditional sense. A wizard that acts as a strategist and battlefield controller could be a member, or perhaps a rogue that while somewhat distrusted for their underhanded methods, is a greater boon for their skills in subterfuge knights simply cannot muster.
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GM Gnar, I salute you for being bold enough to try something new! I have some ideas that you may or may not be interested in.
Magitechmaker: This AP is one of the more out there ideas and is basically Kingmaker designed for Numerian refugees. Maybe the PCs are all experimental Androids designed as replicants for non-human races and have wandered into the River Kingdoms in an attempt to hide from their former masters. Maybe the androids get some traits from their 'parent model' in addition to their basic traits, bumping them up to a 20 RP race. Whatever the case, I have rules for technological kingdom-building stuff like fission reactors, robot factories, medical centers, and morr. Ig this idea appeals to you, I would be more than happy to supply you the rules and put in an application.
Cultistmaker: Kingmaker with all thr PCs as cultists of a Great Old One. In fact, there's a location in the vanilla AP that would be perfect for this, a place where former mythos cultists lurked and the barriers between worlds are thin.
Vampire Kingmaker: I suggest this as an option because why not? I have a variant vampire from 3.5 that is only weakened by sunlight, not entirely crippled by it. Perhaps the PCs are all spawn of a vampire from Brevoy who has lived in the River Kingdoms for years, preying on settlers who try to establish themselves in the wood. Well, maybe he picked the wrong target and was nearly slain, something your vengeful characters finished while he slept with a stake. The PCs are now free and in possession of their former master's deed.
Daimyomaker: Another out-there idea, this game's concept books down to Kingmaker-Jade Regent mashup. Take the material from the first half of book one from Jade Regent, splice in rethemed books two and three from Kingmaker, and have the books four through six transplanted into that. There are plenty of forests in Tian Xia, such as the Forest of Spirits, for the game to take place. As for why the PCs are in the Forest of Spirits or other forests to begin with, perhaps they are on the run from ninja assassins and they have no idea why. If you have read Jade Regent, you would know why.
Rajahmaker: Kingmaker in Vudra. Replace the BBEG with a Rakshasa noble, change visuals around, replace some encounters with better themes (elephants in place of dire animals), and play up on Indian mysticism within the game. Possibly replace an adventure with Cult of the Ebon Destroyer.
Sultanmaker: Just add kingdom-building to the Legacy of Fire AP. Kelmarane pretty much begs to be used in a Kingmaker-style game.
Tyrantmaker: Evil Kingmaker. Easy enough to build, but demanding on PCs to balance the unspoken laws of the River Kingdoms with their own ambitions.
Necrolordmaker: PCs are all a cabal of necromancer and various undead seeking to establish a base of power.
L337M4K3R: Cyberpunk version of Kingmaker where PCs are players in an MMO that become trapped within the world itself. Que in shenanigans, terrible memes, and the potential for PCs to hack the game to gice themselves things like power armor or railguns in the most out there experience since the .hack games or just Saint's Row 4.
Jarlmaker: Kingmaker in the Land of the Linnorm Kings. Due to the unique customs of the land, PCs would need to slay a Linnorm in order to have real political clout, but that could easily be transplanted.
Razmirmaker: A play on the cultist idea, PCs could all be agents of Razmir sent to claim the Stolen Lands for the glory of their 'god'. If you go with this, each PC should get a free mask since all important members of the Razmiran church wear them.
Godmaker: Rethemed mythic Kingmaker on that chain of islands in Golarion, whose names escape me, that is basically mythic Greece, the one where latent energies can change exceptional mortals into living gods. If you run this game, I would most definitely apply. It would need some heavy alterations, but it could work. Instead of a giant monster menacing a community, for instance, it could be Polykranos the Devourer, a massive hydra with seven heads that each breathe a different type of energy. Instead of the BBEG, it could be an exiled godking causing the troubles or maybe even the source of the energy that is responsible for causing mortals on the isles to ascend.
Warlordmaker: Kingmaker with Orcs. I was a big fan of the founding of Orgrimmar in Warcraft 3 and doing something similar in Pathfinder has a level of appeal.
I like gestalt themed games
Like have It be a game where it's gestalt but one class is preselected by the recruitment
Bard, rogue, monk gunslinger and paladin work great for this and gives a skew to the game
Though really I just like gestalt games and I've not played kingmaker yet
One reason to have gestalt if you also have it be an evil game because when you're good you can expect at least some cooperation from other like minded/aligned people
But an evil group out to take over the world?
Those are a threat to other bad guys and the forces of good
I don't really have any advice other than pick a theme you're interested in so that you don't lose interest. Ivory Songbird had some great ideas.
I'll put in an app pretty much no matter what the theme is though, because I've always wanted to play kingmaker and never had the opportunity.
I'm currently playing in an evil-themed Kingmaker here on the boards. It's been a lot of fun. It's basically just Kingmaker out of the box with evil characters.
I've always been fond of the Kingmaker's that change the setting with Jarlmaker and Sultanmaker coming to mind.
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L337M4K3R: Cyberpunk version of Kingmaker where PCs are players in an MMO that become trapped within the world itself. Que in shenanigans, terrible memes, and the potential for PCs to hack the game to gice themselves things like power armor or railguns in the most out there experience since the .hack games or just Saint's Row 4.
Sultanmaker sounds beyond epic! :)
I like the idea of redeemed heroes. Criminals conscripted, dhampirs or tieflings trying to prove themselves ect, that kind of thing. It's got a broader focus than the dwarven games, but think Suicide Squad King Maker. A group of really bad or perceived bad people trying to do the right thing. But that's just my suggestion if you're still taking them.
GM Gnar posted: Evil Empire, Shoanti Tribesman, Dhampir/Undead, Goblins
Evil Empire crossed with Goblins would be fun, though perhaps a bit psychopathic, and definitely room for plenty of cross-purposes between the goblins and whoever wants the empire to exist.
If you want Dhampir/Undead, I have this idea for a wandering necromancer from Geb seeking a home to practice his art ;)
Lots of race/class groups could have an outside patron who sponsored them with the Swordlords -- "all the halflings in Rostov and Mendev have subscribed to help you win a new homeland for their people."
You can, of course, have multiple themes at once; just make sure you don't make it too specific for your players. "Shoanti half-orc necromancer knights of Nethys" might be too many themes at once; maybe two or at most three overlapping themes. I expect you'd still be surprised by player creativity.
Definitely still interested.
I would be pretty interested in playing a themed kingmaker. I would be interested very much and I like the idea of a gestalt with a hellknight or swordlord requirement. Or some other thing like that.
Dragon rider could be super fun. DRAGON ARMY!
If you do not hate psionics, bringing in psionics might be a neat thing. A group of people with weird magic trying to make a safe place.