So how bad is a low will save?

[Envall]

All I am saying is that, is that failure and triumph go hand in hand. Sure, failing a save sucks. But it always leads to something, failure, looking for help, others helping you, moments of compassion. And no victory ever feels real unless you actually were uncertain you might achieve it.

If you all go to the tomb of the pharaoh, and NOBODY gets cursed, it seems like a major disappointment to me.

[DeathlessOne]

Failure is the greatest teacher. Unless, of course, you are either unable or unwilling to keep going after failure. Only then have you truly failed.

[lemeres]

DeathlessOne wrote:

Failure is the greatest teacher. Unless, of course, you are either unable or unwilling to keep going after failure. Only then have you truly failed.

So, "you can't learn if you are dead".

Of course, with raise dead spells, you only truly die when there is a TPK, and no one is left to raise you. Mind control spells have the risk of causing that very situation.

[Garbage-Tier Waifu]

Or your soul was destroyed or sold to a fiend. Or you’re not actually dead, but sealed in some kind of magical stasis/petrification/time loop/alternate reality/someone else’s body/had your own body kidnaped and maintained for an eternity through ritual magic and blood sacrifice.

I’m just saying that death is probably the best thing that could happen to you when you really think about it. At least you know there is an afterlife for you.

[the David]

Oh, it's not that bad -- until you fail your will save...

[Dastis]

Envall wrote:

All I am saying is that, is that failure and triumph go hand in hand. Sure, failing a save sucks. But it always leads to something, failure, looking for help, others helping you, moments of compassion. And no victory ever feels real unless you actually were uncertain you might achieve it.

If you all go to the tomb of the pharaoh, and NOBODY gets cursed, it seems like a major disappointment to me.

You know I like what your saying and sort of agree with it. Some of my favorite RP moments have come from failure. However enough bad things happen to me without making it likely to happen. Seriously though, we had a campaign renamed "The Tragedy of Insert My Character Name Here". If you have 4 people in a party, each making 1 save per encounter, and even just 6 encounters somebody is going to need a cleric afterwards

[Envall]

Well yeah GM needs to show some discipline.
Saving throws for the sake of saving throws is just GM out to get the party. Not every tomb needs to be the tomb of horrors.

[Cavall]

Frankly if your tomb doesn't require saves it was built by really poor tomb designers.

Any idiot thinking he's going tomb robbing without risk deserves what he gets.

[Steelfiredragon]

I'd design a tomb that was filled with traps and no treasure.

at the end if you live, the only loot you get it are your own lives and anything that has not deteriorated along the way off the dead bodies of stupid fools who found it and thought treasure....

[lemeres]

I would just have a funeral with perishable decorations.

Flowers, silk, food, etc. That way, you have a nice ceremony that allows for everyone to feel good, you keep your dignity... and anyone robbing the place just gets rotten fruit and worm eaten scraps of cloth.

If you fill the place with treasure, the only people that get impressed in the end are your grave robbers. Best to just avoid that.

I might order a tablet listing the extravagant decorations at the ceremony though. So that archaeologists can look on in awe, and you can make some witty line about how 'all honor turns to dust in the rivers of time' or some nonsense. Mostly just a 'haha, you thought you were going to get something?' message to grave robbers though.

[Steelfiredragon]

here is one of my character's tomb:

elaborate floor plan,,main entryway 5 major rooms before the main burial chambers and several yards of corridors.

main entry way
Statue of Esareth Leafblade
statue is that of my character in his prime which would have him wearing elven chain, longsword on belt and a bow over hsi shoulder., boots and a cloak. and his face would have a mischievous smirk on it

the epitaph would read:
Esareth Leafblade , hunter, traveler to far off places and a practical joker. Riches interred within 5 rooms...
born in Kyonin on yada yada, died in bed on yada yada

the front hallways would have the names of hte people who dug out and decorated my tomb, and a few milt poison dart traps every 5 feet.
the first main room would be decorated to look like iadara, Kyonin.
ghost sounds would be chirping birds, and the water lapping up and down in the distance.

in the middle of the room contains a plaque and it would state who was what in the city at the time of said characters birth and death.
9 foot pit trap and the back door leading further into the tomb.
the next corridor will contain a few more floor pit traps and 9 total mild poison dart traps every 3 feet.

next room will be decorated to look like the foreign quarter of absolom, and the plaque would state when I was there and who was what in absolom.
ghost sounds people talking, stray can and dog sounds and a few birds chirping.
the doorway leading out of the room further into the tomb would be traped with a 12 foot floor pit trap with a few spikes in the bottom.

the corridor behind said door would contain a buzzsaw trap in the middle of it and the other traps would be spikes out of the wall pressure plate traps that reset/ on the walls would be rumors at the time and palces that I might have left stuff.

the next room would be decorated to look like Vigil, Lastwall.
again the plaque would state when I was there and who was what.
ghost sounds would be sounds of soldiers on patrol complete with barking orders along with the sounds of merchants haggling in the background and the feint scent of horse manure.
the exit door would contain a 15 floor pit trap in front of it and it will have many spikes in the floor. this trap also has 3 bodies of looters complete with whatever they came in with. 5 gp, 65 sp, 75 cp, two +1 shortswords, 2 rotten leather armors, 1 +2 leather armor of resistance( yeah this guy broke his neck and missed the spikes)
5 daggers, 1 rusted light mace and 1 shattered short sword.

the corridor behind it would contain 1 buzzsaw trap in the middle of the corridor, 5 spike traps that come out of the floor and both sidewalls.
there . at the trap there is a body of a looter who was cut in half.
( he made it passed the pit trap where his or her three buddies died, the 5th one left at the trap )

the next room would be decorated to look like sandpoint, again with teh same thing for the plaque, ghost sounds would contain sound of the river, birds, watchmen barking orders
the far door leading out of the room contains a 25 foor pit and it contains mercury from the bottom to just below the top. this trap was tripped as mutiple dead bodies of those who fell in managed to get out and didnt make it past this.

the next corridor has no traps, but in perfect elven, dwarven and taldane it has forgot to put 6 rooms down instead of 5.... oh well LEafblade is dead anyway and he'd get a kick out of it.

the 6th room shows the city of MAgnimar in the distance from sea.
so the floor would be non existent it would be a 4 foot pit full of water. and on the door leading into said room it would have edtched into it" hope you can swim"..

next corridor has several spike traps in it that come out of both walls.
and at the foor to the next room, it says on the door" you have come all this way and will be properly rewarded"
the room looks like my characters bed room where he died.
ghost sounds would be talking and sobbing. on a table it would have in stone a copy of his last will and another one of my character's net worth and all of his belongings. where the death bed would be you would find one more door.

this door leads into the burial room itself.
a stone casket containing one dead Esareth Leafblade lade to rest in steel chainmail, a broken sword and bow are interred in casket with.
room would contain chests and tables. the chests are to hold all his weapons and armor he attain throughout his life. and the tables would contain silver dishes full of gems and other valuables.
ghost sounds would be of 5 elves laughing 3 males and two females.

the epitaph behind the casket would state" All honor is earned in Life, but in death honor is fleeting as the next takes your place."

the chests contain not weapons and armor, but clay replicas.

the silver dishes are silver plated pewter and the gems are Glass
the sword and bow were his weapons disenchanted and so was the steel chain mail.
on the inside wall facing the doorway out etched in stone it states " money comes, money goes as you know you cant take it with you, and I left all mine to my children so all you came to plunder from my tomb would be passed around to them and in the end, I stole your time that you spent barging into my final resting place. Ill see you in the Boneyard- Esareth LEafblade"

[Cavall]

Wellllp. He's being made into a zombie.

[Perfect Tommy]

Low will saves are survivable low levels. 5+ they are dangerous.

However, rather than magic circle, or prot e, I prefer charm monster or similar.

The duration of charm monster is days per level. Charm all your (low will) party members before going into the dungeon.

Its a more predictable result (opposed domination effects) rather than the save or die.

Toss in nostalgia oil.

[ManlyMan]

Steelfiredragon wrote:

I'd design a tomb that was filled with traps and no treasure.

at the end if you live, the only loot you get it are your own lives and anything that has not deteriorated along the way off the dead bodies of stupid fools who found it and thought treasure....

So... Tomb of Horrors?

[Garbage-Tier Waifu]

ManlyMan wrote:

Steelfiredragon wrote:

I'd design a tomb that was filled with traps and no treasure.

at the end if you live, the only loot you get it are your own lives and anything that has not deteriorated along the way off the dead bodies of stupid fools who found it and thought treasure....

So... Tomb of Horrors?

There was some loot in tomb of horrors. But obviously, that loot is almost inconsequential and may hilariously be taken away from you.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Like the Mithril front doors that was errata'd to be fake so people wouldn't just walk away with a million gold and retire their character before the deathtrapadventure started?

[The Sideromancer]

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Like the Mithril front doors that was errata'd to be fake so people wouldn't just walk away with a million gold and retire their character before the deathtrapadventure started?

It's not the only hilarious-but-patched exploit in the Tomb. Apparently somebody used the starting gold to hire contractors to strip-mine the place.

[Scott Wilhelm]

The Sideromancer wrote:

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Like the Mithril front doors that was errata'd to be fake so people wouldn't just walk away with a million gold and retire their character before the deathtrapadventure started?

It's not the only hilarious-but-patched exploit in the Tomb. Apparently somebody used the starting gold to hire contractors to strip-mine the place.

Even the treasure that was listed in the Tomb of Horrors was worth more than 100,000gp. You have to kill the Demi-Lich to get it, though.