Tomes of Inherent bonuses


Rules Questions


My party just was rewarded a tome of +1 for each stat and the party has divided them to the appropriate people.

Now many of the wonderous items are upgradeable with the right craft feats. Like the headbands and such.

My question is:

Are the tomes upgradable prior to reading them. Say I had the gold to do so and the craft feat. Is this allowed? I was wanting to buff it up prior to reading mine to atleast a +2.

What would be the spellcraft DC?


Well the prequsiite for the tomes are “Wish” spells which require a Caster Level of 17th, so you need the prequisites not just the gold.

But you could upgrade a tome with the appropriate Feat, Spells, Gold and so on like any other magic item. They would have to pay the difference from +1 to +2 in that case and so on. It isn’t a cheap upgrade by any margin.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Aura strong evocation (if miracle is used); CL 17th

Craft Wondrous Item, wish or miracle; Cost 26,250 gp (+1), 52,500 gp (+2), 78,750 gp (+3), 105,000 gp (+4), 131,250 gp (+5)

As for DC for Spellcraft...

Magic Item Creation
To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item's creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item (see Cursed Items for more information).

So 5 + Caster Level, So 22 minimum for the upgrade each time regardless of what bonus it’s going from.

As for how long it takes to upgrade...

The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item. The character must spend the gold at the beginning of the construction process. Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day. This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by +5.


Because of the very expensive material component (25,000 gp diamond) the cost of a tome is barely less than its price (5,250 gp out of 137,500 at +5). The savings isn't likely to be worth the time, assuming your campaign has a traditional Magic Mart where you can buy such things.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber

All requirements (including CL and any spells) for Wondrous item creation (aside from the feat) can be substituted with a +5 increase to the crafting DC, ID-TheDemonOfElru.


by raw no, but some house rules i've seen is that they stack with each other since a +5 book costs the same as 5 +1 books


Unless the rules of an item specifically prohibit upgrades, all magic items are upgradable. The general rules of upgrading items don't make any exceptions.

Quote:
Sometimes, lack of funds or time make it impossible for a magic item crafter to create the desired item from scratch. Fortunately, it is possible to enhance or build upon an existing magic item. Only time, gold, and the various prerequisites required of the new ability to be added to the magic item restrict the type of additional powers one can place.


Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

So for not having access to Wish/Miracle, not being CL 17th the DC would be +10 since it stacks per prequisite you fail to meet.

Failing by 5 or more automatically results in a cursed item, so the risks are high. You also need the correct Item Creation Feat.

The above text doesn’t imply that you can upgrade it without a WISH or MIRACLE, only that if YOU don’t possess it it has to still come from another source (another spell caster who possesses what you need) but the DC still increased by 5 because you aren’t the one who met the prequisite itself.


ID-TheDemonOfElru wrote:

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

So for not having access to Wish/Miracle, not being CL 17th the DC would be +10 since it stacks per prequisite you fail to meet.

Failing by 5 or more automatically results in a cursed item, so the risks are high. You also need the correct Item Creation Feat.

The above text doesn’t imply that you can upgrade it without a WISH or MIRACLE, only that if YOU don’t possess it it has to still come from another source (another spell caster who possesses what you need) but the DC still increased by 5 because you aren’t the one who met the prequisite itself.

There is no caster level requirement for the tomes. The caster level listed for magic items is not a prerequisite. It is only a prerequisite if it is listed as such at the end of the item description.

Quote:
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, miracle or wish; Cost 26,250 gp (+1), 52,500 gp (+2), 78,750 gp (+3), 105,000 gp (+4), 131,250 gp (+5)

And you are misunderstanding the bypass rules. The spell does not have to be supplied for any item (except spell completion items, spell trigger items, and potions). If the spell is provided by any means, you do not add +5 to the DC. You only add +5 to the DC for any requirement that is skipped entirely.


Regarding caster level and created items (from item creation rules)

While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item.

A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. (In this case WISH or MIRACLE need a 17th caster level minimum as a requirement, if it is a requirement then without being high enough level you count as +5 for not meeting it. You cannot cast a WISH or a MIRACLE into this item using Caster Level 1st for example because that would break the system. It clearly doesn’t allow it. The CL has to be the minimum for the spell required, without it there should be a +5 difficulty for not being high enough level)


ID-TheDemonOfElru wrote:

Regarding caster level and created items (from item creation rules)

While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item.

A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. (In this case WISH or MIRACLE need a 17th caster level minimum as a requirement, if it is a requirement then without being high enough level you count as +5 for not meeting it. You cannot cast a WISH or a MIRACLE into this item using Caster Level 1st for example because that would break the system. It clearly doesn’t allow it. The CL has to be the minimum for the spell required, without it there should be a +5 difficulty for not being high enough level)

Look at the Pearl of Power FAQ:

Quote:

Pearl of Power: What is the caster level required to create this item?

Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level.

However, it makes sense that the minimum caster level of the pearl is the minimum caster level necessary to cast spells of that level--it would be strange for a 2nd-level pearl to be CL 1st.

For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic). If he wants to make a 2nd-level pearl, the caster level has to be at least 3, as wizards can't cast 2nd-level spells until they reach character level 3. He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement.

Note it says he adds +5 as he can't cast 3rd level spells. It says nothing about adding +5 because he doesn't mean the items caster level. All items have a caster level, but that caster level is not a requirement that must be met unless the item specifically states such in the Requirements line found in all magic items. If the items construction line does not list a caster level requirement, there is none, and no need to bypass it by adding +5.

The tomes may need to be CL 17 at the minimum, but that caster level is not a listed requirement. As such, there is no need to add +5 to the DC if you don't meet it. The minimum caster level does impact the creation, as it is accounted for in the base DC to craft the item (DC 5 + items caster level). Making a tome requires a DC 22 check, or DC 27 if you aren't able to somehow supply the wish/miracle spell.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

ID, Jeraa is correct as far as the combined wisdom of the rules forum denizens is concerned (and there has been enough commentary from designers over the years to support it).

Including the prerequisite bypass FAQ.


Fair enough. Thanks for the Bypass FAQ.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Tomes of Inherent bonuses All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.