Does X Obedience Qualify you for Prestige Classes?


Pathfinder Society


The short of it is whether or not Fey/Celestial/Demonic/whatever Obedience counts as Deific Obedience for the purposes of Prestige Classes. I was contemplating building a Cleric that was going to Prestige into Exalted, but I was planning on having an Eldest as my deity, and they have their own feat instead of Deific Obedience, that being Fey Obedience. I actually posted this in the general rules forum but I was told that it should be posted in the PFS forum since it's specifically about PFS.

I'm of the opinion that it wouldn't be a problem since the feats themselves are, for the most part, different in name only. But I want a clarification for PFS, since it doesn't work by a strict RAW reading, since Exalted specifically says Deific Obedience instead of any daily obedience feat.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I can't find anything PFS-specific in either the Additional Resources document, the Campaign Clarifications document, or the PFS FAQ, so it would default to the regular Pathfinder rules.

The abilities and names are different, so Fey Obedience would not count as Deific Obedience for prerequisites.

If Fey Obedience contained a line stating something to the effect of "This counts as having Deific Obedience when qualifying for prerequisites", then you'd be fine.

Seems that it's a concept best left for a homegame.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Nefreet wrote:

I can't find anything PFS-specific in either the Additional Resources document, the Campaign Clarifications document, or the PFS FAQ, so it would default to the regular Pathfinder rules.

The abilities and names are different, so Fey Obedience would not count as Deific Obedience for prerequisites.

If Fey Obedience contained a line stating something to the effect of "This counts as having Deific Obedience when qualifying for prerequisites", then you'd be fine.

Ah, but there is such a line. Not in the feat text, but in the introductory section.

The First World - Realm of the Fey wrote:
In addition, characters using the evangelist, exalted, and sentinel prestige classes from Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Gods may also use these boons and obediences to gain power from a patron Eldest (all three classes receive the same boons.)

As for the “evil” boons, check out page 9 of the Book of the Damned. It contains modified entry requirements for Evangelist, Exalted and Sentinel classes from ISG if you are using the Fiendish Obedience feat. (Although that feat is not PFS legal, so it isn’t strictly relevant.)

I thought there was something printed about Celestial Obedience as well but I can’t find it now.


Kevin Willis wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

I can't find anything PFS-specific in either the Additional Resources document, the Campaign Clarifications document, or the PFS FAQ, so it would default to the regular Pathfinder rules.

The abilities and names are different, so Fey Obedience would not count as Deific Obedience for prerequisites.

If Fey Obedience contained a line stating something to the effect of "This counts as having Deific Obedience when qualifying for prerequisites", then you'd be fine.

Ah, but there is such a line. Not in the feat text, but in the introductory section.

The First World - Realm of the Fey wrote:
In addition, characters using the evangelist, exalted, and sentinel prestige classes from Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Gods may also use these boons and obediences to gain power from a patron Eldest (all three classes receive the same boons.)

As for the “evil” boons, check out page 9 of the Book of the Damned. It contains modified entry requirements for Evangelist, Exalted and Sentinel classes from ISG if you are using the Fiendish Obedience feat. (Although that feat is not PFS legal, so it isn’t strictly relevant.)

I thought there was something printed about Celestial Obedience as well but I can’t find it now.

We are told under Crimson Templar that Deific Obedience and Celestial Obedience count for Ragathiel, but nothing specific for Exalted, Evangelist, and Sentinel.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Kevin Willis wrote:
Ah, but there is such a line. Not in the feat text, but in the introductory section.

Good find!

I would suggest printing that page from the PDF so future GMs don't go through the same hesitation.

The Exchange 3/5

It still isn't legal for play in PFS. Additional resources covers rules inclusions in each book's section.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Is that page not on one of those listed?

The Exchange

Pathfinder LO Special Edition, PF Special Edition Subscriber

Additional resources says it is legal for play (specifically Fey Obedience no mention of the earlier clause). From what I have seen previously it has except clauses rather than inclusion clauses if the section is mentioned.

4/5

A slightly different question, but one I've wondered is, can you use Deific Obedience for all deity-like entities, even if they have their own special feat? Can I take Deific Obedience to make an Exalted of Zohls (Empyreal Lord), though Zohls' boons were originally written for Celestial Obedience?

edited.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Mimo Tomblebur wrote:

A slightly different question, but one I've wondered is, can you use Deific Obedience for all deity-like entities, even if they have their own special feat? Can I take Deific Obedience to make an Exalted of Zohls (Empyreal Lord), though Zohls' boons were originally written for Celestial Obedience?

edited.

A strict reading is that an Empyreal Lord worshipper cannot qualify for the Evangelist, Exalted, or Sentinel prestige classes, because these boons do not exist for the Empyreal Lords, and there is no language allowing the existing boons to substitute for them.

Now, it's entirely reasonable to believe that the only reason for there is no such language is because the Empyreal Lord boons predate the existence of the Evangelist, Exalted, or Sentinel Prestige classes, and that RAI they should work. But I wouldn't feel comfortable doing this myself without a Campaign Clarification.

This is one of those things that I've been meaning to ask leadership to make a clarification about.

There is a slight game balance issue. Mystery Cultist requires 7 levels to qualify for while the others require 5 levels to qualify for, which means an Evangelist can qualify for all the boons 2 levels sooner than a Mystery Cultist can, and the boon strength was designed around acquiring them at the higher level. So it's *possible* they are "too powerful" for the level an Evangelist would gain them. I haven't tried to compare them, so I'm not really making that argument, but it would be a concern that would need to be addressed before we'd get a ruling.


pH unbalanced wrote:
Mimo Tomblebur wrote:

A slightly different question, but one I've wondered is, can you use Deific Obedience for all deity-like entities, even if they have their own special feat? Can I take Deific Obedience to make an Exalted of Zohls (Empyreal Lord), though Zohls' boons were originally written for Celestial Obedience?

edited.

A strict reading is that an Empyreal Lord worshipper cannot qualify for the Evangelist, Exalted, or Sentinel prestige classes, because these boons do not exist for the Empyreal Lords, and there is no language allowing the existing boons to substitute for them.

Now, it's entirely reasonable to believe that the only reason for there is no such language is because the Empyreal Lord boons predate the existence of the Evangelist, Exalted, or Sentinel Prestige classes, and that RAI they should work. But I wouldn't feel comfortable doing this myself without a Campaign Clarification.

This is one of those things that I've been meaning to ask leadership to make a clarification about.

There is a slight game balance issue. Mystery Cultist requires 7 levels to qualify for while the others require 5 levels to qualify for, which means an Evangelist can qualify for all the boons 2 levels sooner than a Mystery Cultist can, and the boon strength was designed around acquiring them at the higher level. So it's *possible* they are "too powerful" for the level an Evangelist would gain them. I haven't tried to compare them, so I'm not really making that argument, but it would be a concern that would need to be addressed before we'd get a ruling.

There is a bit of weirdness though... As we know, for Ragathiel, you can get "Deific Obedience" for him.

"At 1st level, a crimson templar gains Deific Obedience as a bonus feat. If the crimson templar already has this feat or Celestial Obedience (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Chronicle of the Righteous 5), he instead gains a bonus combat feat."

So it gets to a weird grey area.

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Right, but I'm making a slightly different argument. I'm saying that RAW an Empyreal Lord worshipper might be able to take Deific Obedience, but that even if they could, doing so would not give them access to any of the boons, because Empyreal Lords don't have "Exalted Boons", "Evangelist Boons", or "Sentinel Boons" which is what is granted by the feat.

Crimson Templar finesses that by explicitly giving access to Ragathiel's Divine Boons as class features at particular levels. But the Exalted, Evangelist, and Sentinel don't have that language.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Ragoz wrote:
It still isn't legal for play in PFS. Additional resources covers rules inclusions in each book's section.

I get where you are coming from, but that interpretation causes all kinds of knock-on problems. For better or worse, a lot of books in the past couple of years have included "how to use this stuff" directions in the introductory material.

Example 1: The section I partially quoted from FWRotF is titled "Obedience to the Elders" and the Fey Obedience feat is contained within it. Among other things the intro material is also where you find the clarification that spellcasters can perform their Fey Obedience during their normal spell prep time.

Example 2: Several spells with the "meditative" descriptor in Divine Anthology are legal. However the instructions for using meditative spells (they have special casting requirements) are in an introductory section, not in the spell text.

There's plenty of other examples, but the point is that not all the instructions for use are necessarily contained in a feat, spell, item, etc.

The Exchange 3/5

But then there are also examples actually in the AR document:

Quote:

Possession rules on pages 206-207 are legal for play as an extension of possession-related spells and effects.

The Aquatic Rules in this book serve simply as guidelines—not mandates—for handling underwater combat; these are definitive only when prompted by a scenario. Character options that directly reference one of these rules use the relevant rule specifically to adjudicate those abilities.

Stuff like this where it has rules which reference the legal ability.

Also as PH mentioned at the very least Celestial Obedience boons can't be made interchangeable. They are much stronger than the others.

Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Does X Obedience Qualify you for Prestige Classes? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.