Azlanti vs Appendix 1


General Discussion

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The Aeon Guard & Aeon Guard Specialist from the Alien Archive (pages 6-7) cannot be created using the rules from Appendix 1 (pages 126-158), as their attribute modifiers exceed what they would get from any array.

Longtime Golarion players will know why this is so. However, players new to Pathfinder /Starfinder likely will not.

Azlanti should have been written up as either a subtype or as a special ability explaining that Azlanti characters receive a +1 bonus to all six racial ability scores.

Of course, that would lead to players wanting to be Azlanti.


Starfinder Superscriber

Could you clarify a bit here (just a synopsis)?

My group has used some of the rules/crunch from PF for a while but we basically ignored the setting as we play a sort of hybrid of 3.5/PF (none of us wanted to buy a bunch of new books).

I'm guessing from context and what I vaguely remember reading that the Azlanti are some sort of human supremacist empire that used eugenics and strict societal norms to breed/train "superior" humans. But I'd like to be sure of that before I start treating them as Nazis in my games.


I think its more that the monsters in the Alien Archive aren't all made to exactly mirror whats in the back of the book. They've been hand designed.


pithica42 wrote:
I'm guessing from context and what I vaguely remember reading that the Azlanti are some sort of human supremacist empire that used eugenics and strict societal norms to breed/train "superior" humans. But I'd like to be sure of that before I start treating them as Nazis in my games.

Not eugenics, they were uplifted and modified by the Aboleths. Not quite Nazis (they aren't murderous) however they are extraordinarily gifted as a race (+2 in all stats, a Bonus Feat, and a bonus skill point at every level) and haughty to the point of enslaving any non-humans in their empire. Not quite full nazis but very "look down their nose" and dismissive of anyone who isn't human, with potent enough magic to back up their arrogance.


Starfinder Superscriber

Thanks for the clarification. I'm coming in to the flavor text of the pact worlds pretty green so that helps a lot.

Liberty's Edge

Actually, they don't violate the Ability distribution rules at all (the CR 3's AC is a problem, but that's a rules error of a different sort).

The Ability Arrays only specify the highest three stats, after assigning those you get to do the following (and I quote):

Alien Archive, p. 128 wrote:
After assigning these top three scores, you can set the NPC's remaining ability score modifiers as you see fit, usually equal to or less than the lowest listed modifier.

The Azlanti very precisely follow that guideline. They're explicitly on the high end (likely due to the aforementioned high stats thing), but well within the guidelines. No need for special rules.


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From p. 127 of the Alien Archive.

Alien Archive wrote:

EVERYTHING IS OPTIONAL

When creating an NPC, you are free to enact whatever changes you need to in order to make your creation work the way you intend. For example, an array might tell you to select two special abilities, but you know you need four—or only one. Go ahead and make the change! If you want your combatant NPC to have a really high AC but not many Hit Points, you can increase its AC by 1 and use the expert array’s HP. This doesn’t make the statistics wrong; rather, it helps the statistics match your concept. Creating NPCs is fundamentally a creative process, so while these steps are useful to keep the NPC’s capabilities from going too far astray for its CR, don’t treat them as hard restrictions.

I think it's pretty unlikely that anything in the book "cannot be created using the rules in Appendix 1" given what that Appendix tells us about those rules.


Also, sure, pure blooded Azlanti have better ability bonuses than ordinary humans. However, just because they exist doesn't mean your required to allow players to play them. Even aside from that the only existing Azlanti are from the evil empire, you only should play as Azlanti PCs in a game intended to support higher level starting play.

So yeah, you pick an Azlanti for your race, and you effectively get +10 starting ability points. This should only happen if other players can pick other races that are equivalently powerful.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

We haven't seen Azlanti statted out in Starfinder other than the Aeon Guard. Can we be sure that they're not identical to other humans now? We now have Aeon Throne, but I didn't see anything in it with statistics for Azlanti as another race. Indeed it's listed as a human ethnicity.

Against the Aeon Throne, Escape from the Prison Throne, p. 23 wrote:
The Azlanti are a human ethnicity of people who have high cheekbones, straight black hair with widow's peaks, bronze skin, and violet eyes.


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Hmm wrote:

We haven't seen Azlanti statted out in Starfinder other than the Aeon Guard. Can we be sure that they're not identical to other humans now? We now have Aeon Throne, but I didn't see anything in it with statistics for Azlanti as another race. Indeed it's listed as a human ethnicity.

Against the Aeon Throne, Escape from the Prison Throne, p. 23 wrote:
The Azlanti are a human ethnicity of people who have high cheekbones, straight black hair with widow's peaks, bronze skin, and violet eyes.

Even if Azlanti are superior to baseline humans, Azlanti PCs would mysteriously have the same stat line and total attribute points as all other PCs, probably because only their losers adventure. We've already seen other races with toned down stat blocks in the area of racial abilities, reduced stats wouldn't be anything different.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
CeeJay wrote:

From p. 127 of the Alien Archive.

Alien Archive wrote:

EVERYTHING IS OPTIONAL

When creating an NPC, you are free to enact whatever changes you need to in order to make your creation work the way you intend. For example, an array might tell you to select two special abilities, but you know you need four—or only one. Go ahead and make the change! If you want your combatant NPC to have a really high AC but not many Hit Points, you can increase its AC by 1 and use the expert array’s HP. This doesn’t make the statistics wrong; rather, it helps the statistics match your concept. Creating NPCs is fundamentally a creative process, so while these steps are useful to keep the NPC’s capabilities from going too far astray for its CR, don’t treat them as hard restrictions.
I think it's pretty unlikely that anything in the book "cannot be created using the rules in Appendix 1" given what that Appendix tells us about those rules.

I would like to point out that said section also cautions GMs against making substantial changes that throw off the CR balance. I.e. they tell you that you can make whatever changes you like, they also tell you to consider the gameplay implications (for e.g. adding double the special abilities to a creature of that Cr without compensating in other areas is *allowed*, but it will effectively make that monster a higher CR in terms of combat difficulty.

Given that the monsters published in the front of the book are created by the designers, who are aware of the potential threats to balance of raising the AC of a creature to 6 points above the recommended range for that CR, this still seems like an oversight. All rules can be broken, certainly, and all choices are optional. But their voluntary nature does not exclude them from consequences. The long and the short of it is that a party of 4 3rd level adventurers would have considerable difficulty fighting a creature that, according to gameplay, is only considered a modest threat. Therefore, while they were allowed to make this creature CR 3, it doesn’t seem altogether appropriate as a CR 3 encounter, given its stat distribution. At my calculation, a character would need to be fully optimized just to have a good chance to hit. A 3rd level soldier with a 20 in Dex and using a laser weapon, having laser accuracy and Weapon Focus, still only has a slightly above 50% chance of hitting. And that’s assuming they place considerable respurces towards optimizaion. A non-soldier character would have quite a lot of trouble.


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I remember them getting a boost to all ability scores, but I don't recall bonus feats and skill ranks at every level.


Ravingdork wrote:
I remember them getting a boost to all ability scores, but I don't recall bonus feats and skill ranks at every level.

Their Pathfinder stats from Inner Sea Guide, I think, are standard human traits, but +2 to all stats instead of +2 to one stat.


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I could have sworn they gave up standard human traits for that +2 to everything.


I didn't look up the source, I'm going off memory confirmed via a hopefully accurate summary on these forums. I remember them being purely better than base human, the whole point of them is that they're long gone supermen, you need special GM permission both for story and mechanics reasons.


The Drunken Dragon wrote:
I would like to point out that said section also cautions GMs against making substantial changes that throw off the CR balance . . .
Quote:
Given that the monsters published in the front of the book are created by the designers, who are aware of the potential threats to balance of raising the AC of a creature to 6 points above the recommended range for that CR, this still seems like an oversight.

The "recommended range" is before the application of gear. Aeon Guards have a soldier class graft and gear appropriate to their CR (note their AC, speed et cetera are consistent with the Heavy Armor presented in their entry). Class grafts plus the appropriate gear are meant to make opponents tougher than the baseline for their CR. You can also see the same phenomenon in action with the Kalo Sharkhunter, which likewise has AC higher than the base numbers for its CR and for the same reason.

The whole idea of using gear to adjust creature abilities is, in other words, already built into CR. In fact the CR balancing rules make specific mention of the kind of gear adjustments that would have to raise or lower a creature's CR. The Aeon Guard doesn't meet those criteria, because what you're seeing is a basic application of the creature building rules.

That's not to say they aren't tough as hell for a CR3 monster, because of course they are. That's a thematic decision. The Azlanti are supposed to represent a major threat whenever they appear, they are a Serious Business setting villain. They can be expected to be built to present the biggest threat their CR will allow, and GMs are also expected to be aware of and thinking through specific details like that when building encounters. That, too, is a specifically stated part of using CR.

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CeeJay wrote:

The "recommended range" is before the application of gear. Aeon Guards have a soldier class graft and gear appropriate to their CR (note their AC, speed et cetera are consistent with the Heavy Armor presented in their entry). Class grafts plus the appropriate gear are meant to make opponents tougher than the baseline for their CR. You can also see the same phenomenon in action with the Kalo Sharkhunter, which likewise has AC higher than the base numbers for its CR and for the same reason.

Nope.

Alien Archive, page 127 wrote:

Using an Array

In this system, you don’t calculate an NPC’s final statistics the same way as a player character would. Instead, you take the numbers directly from the array and then make a few adjustments based on grafts and special abilities chosen later. In other words, if the array says the NPC’s Reflex saving throw bonus is +6, that number already represents the benefits of its statistics or any gear it might have.

Let me add that …

The Drunken Dragon wrote:

I would like to point out that said section also cautions GMs against making substantial changes that throw off the CR balance. I.e. they tell you that you can make whatever changes you like, they also tell you to consider the gameplay implications (for e.g. adding double the special abilities to a creature of that Cr without compensating in other areas is *allowed*, but it will effectively make that monster a higher CR in terms of combat difficulty.

Given that the monsters published in the front of the book are created by the designers, who are aware of the potential threats to balance of raising the AC of a creature to 6 points above the recommended range for that CR, this still seems like an oversight. All rules can be broken, certainly, and all choices are optional. But their voluntary nature does not exclude them from consequences. The long and the short of it is that a party of 4 3rd level adventurers would have considerable difficulty fighting a creature that, according to gameplay, is only considered a modest threat. Therefore, while...


Lord Fyre wrote:
CeeJay wrote:

The "recommended range" is before the application of gear. Aeon Guards have a soldier class graft and gear appropriate to their CR (note their AC, speed et cetera are consistent with the Heavy Armor presented in their entry). Class grafts plus the appropriate gear are meant to make opponents tougher than the baseline for their CR. You can also see the same phenomenon in action with the Kalo Sharkhunter, which likewise has AC higher than the base numbers for its CR and for the same reason.

Nope.

Yep. What you've cited is not in conflict with my statement. The gear IS one of the adjustments from the grafts. It's the result of having a class graft.

It has been applied in exactly this way to the Aeon Guard. The base numbers have been pulled directly from the array and then adjusted according to the gear from the class graft. It's not a typo. It's very, very clearly the way the grafts work.


Nah, the soldier graft gives you gear, but only damage is affected by what it is.


The class grafts all explicitly include both armor and weaponry as part of the gear. AA p. 141, the Soldier:

Quote:

Gear: A soldier creature’s gear selection depends on

whether it’s focused on melee or ranged combat.
Melee: Heavy armor (item level = CR), advanced melee
weapon (item level = CR + 1), longarm (item level = CR), and
two grenades (item level = CR).
Ranged: Heavy armor (item level = CR), advanced melee
weapon (item level = CR), longarm (item level = CR + 1) or heavy
weapon (item level = CR), and two grenades (item level = CR).

It's not really debatable. Armor is factually part of class grafts. It is visibly applied this way to creatures.

Of course it's up to GMs whether they apply that aspect of the rules as written, but there isn't an argument to be made that it's not there. It's there, and it was clearly applied to the Aeon Guard.


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Getting armor is part of the graft. Adjusting stats is not. Only damage from weapons selection is adjusted. The Aeon Guard was designed by someone like you who didn’t understand the rules.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Xenocrat wrote:
Getting armor is part of the graft. Adjusting stats is not. Only damage from weapons selection is adjusted. The Aeon Guard was designed by someone like you who didn’t understand the rules.

Alright, no need for anything personal. CeeJay does have a point in that the RAW of class grafts say you do adjust things with armor and weapons as well. However, I would still argue that this adjustment is large wnough to warrant a CR change. Flavor is all well and good but CR is a number game, and at some point your super fancy ubermench is going to have to be accounted for. CR is designed so GMs can eyeball a creature and make an assessment, and any possible tables or random encounter generators will have their results thrown off by a threat this dispreportionate listed under a CR 3 category. Just because it is physically possoble (even though I think at this point I’m concerned about the contradiction oresent in those two passages), doesn’t mean it should be done. I still think as a design choice the ripple effect is pretty harsh. Keep in mind that during the ol PF days, NPCs with better-than-usual gear did get Cr adjustments to compensate.


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The Drunken Dragon wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Getting armor is part of the graft. Adjusting stats is not. Only damage from weapons selection is adjusted. The Aeon Guard was designed by someone like you who didn’t understand the rules.
Alright, no need for anything personal. CeeJay does have a point in that the RAW of class grafts say you do adjust things with armor and weapons as well. However, I would still argue that this adjustment is large wnough to warrant a CR change.

Hey, everything is optional. :) One can always house-rule them.

That said, I've been designing NPCs "wrong-according-to-Xenocrat" (e.g. by the actual rules) for more than a year of weekly SF sessions and have yet to run into the class graft adjustment that breaks CR. (I have effed up CR in other ways from time to time, mind you... but not that way. :D ) That experience has left me fairly sure that the CR system has already been designed with class grafts, gear and their results in mind, so FWIW it's not something I'd worry about.


The Drunken Dragon wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Getting armor is part of the graft. Adjusting stats is not. Only damage from weapons selection is adjusted. The Aeon Guard was designed by someone like you who didn’t understand the rules.
Alright, no need for anything personal. CeeJay does have a point in that the RAW of class grafts say you do adjust things with armor and weapons as well.

They do not say that for armor, only for weapons.

Class Grafts, pg 137, Alien Archive wrote:
Gear: Most NPCs with class grafts use gear rather than relying on natural attacks. This entry gives guidelines for assigning weapons, armor, and other significant equipment to members of the class, listing the level of the gear. Gear has a minimum level of 1 and a maximum level of 20. For example, if a creature’s CR is 1/2 or if the creature’s CR is 1 and the graft suggests an item of “CR – 1,” you would give it level 1 gear. As mentioned on page 128, you can skew the creature’s gear by a few levels, though you might need to make other adjustments to its statistics if you do so.

Only attacks, not AC, are modified by gear. You will never find any reference in the graft rules that AC is modified by armor. Damage by weapons? Sure. Armor as treasure? Absolutely. The armor implying existence of certain combat relevant effects, like environmental protections and accompanying radiation resistance? Yep. The armor providing slots that if filled with armor modifications could provide resistances or other special abilities, that if taken far enough could justify a bump in CR? I'd agree with that. Deciding to bump up the AC as part of your NPC design (and paying for it with a reduction elsewhere) and giving it better armor as a flavor justification for that slant towards defense and away from other capabilities? I could see that. The armor and underlying dex bonus determining AC as with a PC calculation? Absolutely not in a million years.


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Xenocrat wrote:
The Aeon Guard was designed by someone like you who didn’t understand the rules.

While I'm certainly amused by the singular qualities of "you clearly know nothing about the rules, just like the designers of the game" as a riposte... it's not really a good look, mate.

Anyway, the very passage you quote as supposedly proving Armor in class grafts doesn't affect AC says this:

Quote:
you can skew the creature’s gear by a few levels, though you might need to make other adjustments to its statistics if you do so.

Because the class grafts affect the creature's statistics. All of them. As if it was wearing gear. Which, sensibly, is the reason gear would be part of class grafts. Your highly esoteric reading of the towering importance of one use of the word "attacks" is at odds with all other evidence of how class grafts work. Which strongly suggests that your highly esoteric reading is mistaken.

Quote:
The armor and underlying dex bonus determining AC as with a PC calculation?

It's pretty clearly not "as with a PC calculation" since PC calculations aren't based on the stats in creature arrays, and class grafts are. But hey, if you're happy applying every element of armor except its AC bonuses to your NPCs, you do you. Just don't try to tell the rest of us we're wrong for following the clear intent and actual application of the rules as written.


CeeJay wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
The Aeon Guard was designed by someone like you who didn’t understand the rules.

I'm legit puzzled that there are people who still the gear mentioned in the class grafts was there for... just flavour or loot drops or providing a busywork step in the NPC creation process, or whatever the thought process going on here is? That's puzzling. It would seem transparently pointless and is clearly at odds with the way Paizo actually applies the grafts to creatures in its products.

Anyway, while I'm certainly amused by the singular qualities of "you clearly know nothing about the rules, just like the designers of the game" as a riposte... it's not really a good look, mate.

It's not pointless at all, it reduces the anger of players who fight an NPC and wonder why he was so hard to hit if he wasn't wearing armor. Congrats, he was wearing armor, and you get to keep it. But the type of armor and its stats had nothing to do with how hard he was to hit, just like natural armor, deflection bonuses, size bonuses, dex bonuses, and all that no longer have anything to do with why a monster is hard to hit.

Starfinder is a rushed, new system that has many internal inconsistencies and new rules that are under-explained or misunderstood because of Pathfinder legacies. Just like Pathfinder Bestiaries even after a decades always have some monsters published that violate the rules of monster building or have math errors in little ways, it shouldn't be surprising that in a new system bigger errors like the Aeon Guard happened. And "the designers of the game" rarely build individual monsters at Paizo, they assign individual entries to a number of individuals who are a mix of freelancers and Paizo employees who often don't work on game development as their primary job. They shouldn't be embarrassed for making this mistake any more than you should. But it absolutely is a mistake either in the Aeon Guard stats or the class graft rules not saying that AC is determined by armor worn.


Xenocrat wrote:
But the type of armor and its stats had nothing to do with how hard he was to hit, just like natural armor, deflection bonuses, size bonuses, dex bonuses, and all that no longer have anything to do with why a monster is hard to hit.

Well, it's wrong of me to say you're definitively wrong, since there's fuel out there for either view at this point: a closer look at the creatures in AA2 shows they don't apply armor to AC in the way creatures with class grafts in AA1 do. I personally have no problem with the way it's done in AA1 and it seems clearly in line with the building rules to me, but someone who wants to do it your preferred way clearly has some justification for going that route.

Snark Cannons powering down. Have a nice day. :)


CeeJay wrote:

[

Because the class grafts affect the creature's statistics. All of them. As if it was wearing gear. Which, sensibly, is the reason gear would be part of class grafts. Your highly esoteric reading of the towering importance of one use of the word "attacks" is at odds with all other evidence of how class grafts work. Which strongly suggests that your highly esoteric reading is mistaken.

The only evidence of class grafts working this way is the Aeon Trooper and a few other low CR creatures built the same erroneous way. The vast majority of NPCs in both Alien Archive and the APs very obviously do not adjust the baseline AC according to the gear they wear. Let's go through Alien Archive alphabetically.

Aeon Trooper (CR3): Expected AC 14/16, actual AC is 19/22. Increase in line with armor (+5/+7) being improperly applied to a slightly adjusted base AC. As we'll see below, this happens on a couple of other low CR examples (very possibly written by the same person), but not on the majority of aliens, including some low CR ones I've omitted.

Contemplative Mentor (CR 18): Expected AC 31/32, actual AC 32/31. Wearing Elite Hardlight armor, which would give an additional +18/18 if it were applied.

Draelik (CR 2): Expected AC 12/13, actual AC 13/14, wearing Freebooter I, would give an additional +2/+3 if applied.

Dragonkin (CR 9): Expected AC 22/24, actual AC 25/27, wearing Advanced Iridishell, would give an additional +13/15 if applied.

Drow Enforcer (CR 1): Expected AC 11/13, actual AC 16/18. Wearing Lashunta Ringwear I, would give an additional +2/+4 if applied. Looks like it was improperly applied on top of a boosted base AC.

Drow Noble Arms Dealer (CR 11): Expected AC 24/25, actual AC 26/28. Wearing Kasatha Microcord IV, would give an additional +13/15 if applied.

Formian Warrior (CR 3): Expected AC 14/16, actual AC 17/20. Wearing Squad Defiance, would give an additional +5/8 if applied.

Gray (CR 4): Expected AC 15/16, actual AC 15/15. Wearing Basic Lashunta Tempweave, would give an additional +4/+4 if applied.

Haan Combat Pilot (CR 7): Expected AC 19/20, actual AC 20/21. Wearing D-suit I, would give an additional +5/6 if applied.

Ikeshti Brood-Minder (CR 2): Expected AC 12/13, actual AC 14/15. Wearing Freebooter I, +2/3 if applied. May have been improperly applied.

Kalo Sharkhunter (CR 2): Expected AC 13/15, actual AC 16/17. Wearing Freebooter I, +2/3 if applied. May have been improperly applied.

Kalo Deepspeaker (CR 5): Expected AC 16/17, actual AC 17/17. Wearing Basic Lashunta Tempweave, +4/4 if applied.

Maraquoi Shaman (CR 8): Expected AC 19/20, actual AC 19/20. Wearing D-suit II, +8/9 if applied.

I'll stop here. I trust I've proved my point. The Azlanti Trooper and a few other low CR entries were improperly built with too high an AC, apparently because whoever created those misunderstood the rules in the same way you do. Note that the too high examples do not have armor that is a higher level than their CR, which could have potentially justified a bump in AC (although not because of the straight armor bonus) which would be compensated for with enhanced treasure value to the PCs.


Xenocrat wrote:
The only evidence of class grafts working this way is the Aeon Trooper and a few other low CR creatures built the same erroneous way.

The way that approach would break down at high CR does decidedly favour your point. Conceded. [And I guess I'm lucky the sfrpgtools guy agrees with you. ;)]


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So...um...how does it work? *scratches head*

Sovereign Court

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Ravingdork wrote:
So...um...how does it work? *scratches head*

As I understand it: a creature's AC is determined mostly by it's CR, even if it's a creature with a class graft. Creatures with class grafts tend to wear armor, but that's already included in their CR-determined AC. (Probably, creatures with class grafts use armor to compensate for having less tough skin than creatures without class grafts.)

There are a couple of exceptions, like the kalo and the aeon guard, where it looks like the writer took the CR-determined AC and added armor on top of that. Those are probably errors, resulting in a creature with AC 3-5 points higher than it should be, so fairly rough. (Most other creatures are within 0-1 points of expected AC.)


Yes, pick a CR, pick an AC roughly in line with that CR role’s AC in appendix 1, give it the class graft armor of the appropriate level as flavor and loot, but ignore that armor when determining AC.


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I would note, IMO, the reason weapons are allowed to modify the stats? Because weapons have a variety of different supplemental properties which make using one single number impractical. By giving a weapon of a given tier, the expectation is that the raw damage number will be balanced against stuff like "area", "range", and "damage type". Whereas armor, is armor. There isn't really any analog for EAC/KAC that would be analogous to "I have lower damage but effect a line".

Sovereign Court

Well, some armor has a different EAC/KAC ratio than others, so that's grounds for varying by about 1 from the CR benchmarks.

I've been trying to guesstimate if there's a point where trying to sunder armor becomes relevant. Presumably, if an NPC wears armor and you sunder it to Broken, you'd subtract half the armor's AC, just like you would on the PC. But it takes effort to hit that armor and damage it, which you could have also focused on the NPC directly. So I wonder if there's a breakeven point where sundering becomes a good idea?

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Xenocrat wrote:
Hmm wrote:

We haven't seen Azlanti statted out in Starfinder other than the Aeon Guard. Can we be sure that they're not identical to other humans now? We now have Aeon Throne, but I didn't see anything in it with statistics for Azlanti as another race. Indeed it's listed as a human ethnicity.

Against the Aeon Throne, Escape from the Prison Throne, p. 23 wrote:
The Azlanti are a human ethnicity of people who have high cheekbones, straight black hair with widow's peaks, bronze skin, and violet eyes.
Even if Azlanti are superior to baseline humans, Azlanti PCs would mysteriously have the same stat line and total attribute points as all other PCs, probably because only their losers adventure. We've already seen other races with toned down stat blocks in the area of racial abilities, reduced stats wouldn't be anything different.

i like this idea.


Xenocrat wrote:
CeeJay wrote:

[

Because the class grafts affect the creature's statistics. All of them. As if it was wearing gear. Which, sensibly, is the reason gear would be part of class grafts. Your highly esoteric reading of the towering importance of one use of the word "attacks" is at odds with all other evidence of how class grafts work. Which strongly suggests that your highly esoteric reading is mistaken.

The only evidence of class grafts working this way is the Aeon Trooper and a few other low CR creatures built the same erroneous way. The vast majority of NPCs in both Alien Archive and the APs very obviously do not adjust the baseline AC according to the gear they wear. Let's go through Alien Archive alphabetically.

Aeon Trooper (CR3): Expected AC 14/16, actual AC is 19/22. Increase in line with armor (+5/+7) being improperly applied to a slightly adjusted base AC. As we'll see below, this happens on a couple of other low CR examples (very possibly written by the same person), but not on the majority of aliens, including some low CR ones I've omitted.

Contemplative Mentor (CR 18): Expected AC 31/32, actual AC 32/31. Wearing Elite Hardlight armor, which would give an additional +18/18 if it were applied.

Draelik (CR 2): Expected AC 12/13, actual AC 13/14, wearing Freebooter I, would give an additional +2/+3 if applied.

Dragonkin (CR 9): Expected AC 22/24, actual AC 25/27, wearing Advanced Iridishell, would give an additional +13/15 if applied.

Drow Enforcer (CR 1): Expected AC 11/13, actual AC 16/18. Wearing Lashunta Ringwear I, would give an additional +2/+4 if applied. Looks like it was improperly applied on top of a boosted base AC.

Drow Noble Arms Dealer (CR 11): Expected AC 24/25, actual AC 26/28. Wearing Kasatha Microcord IV, would give an additional +13/15 if applied.

Formian Warrior (CR 3): Expected AC 14/16, actual AC 17/20. Wearing Squad Defiance, would give an additional +5/8 if applied.

Gray (CR 4): Expected AC 15/16, actual AC 15/15. Wearing Basic...

Sorry to dredge this up & for the long winded post but your link in another thread piqued my interest in this subject again and with some research of my own I believe your off on your assumptions. I had assumed like you that it worked purely off CR. However, after checking each entry you listed with the exception of Three of those. All of them completely check out by the book for armor adjusted stats. Let me explain.

If you look up the armor for the NPC entries you listed & apply the armor bonuses / dex bonus max, including any bonuses from class features just like you would for any other class their KAC & EAC match exactly what you would expect to see for any other character. I believe this pretty definitely shows that this is what they do when building NPCs with class levels.

The only exceptions to this from the creatures you listed above are as follows:

Contemplative Mentor: applying armor as normal gives a result slightly lower than the expected CR table

Maraquoi Shaman (CR 8): Applying armor as normal results in slightly lower than expected armor values provided by the normal CR table

Drow Enforcer (CR 1): I found in this case the mistake was that they did not apply the max dex bonus of the armor. However if you add their Dex bonus and the armor bonus applied by the gear listed you find an exact match for the KAC & EAC listed for this creature.

The only exception to the rule of apply armor as normal (like you would for any other character) for classed NPCs seems to be if the result is lower than the table for the CR go with the CR table unless its higher which they appear to be fine with.

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