My party is playing a Viking themed party we were all from the same clan.
So I’m playing a fighter in the Shattered Star campaign and I have to make a choice at 5th level if I’m going to take armed bravery or mystic warrior.
The options that my character has currently includes the stamina pool and I am playing a ax and shield style fighter with improve she’ll bash the ass having a great AC and being able to shout modest damage for the next few levels.
The party make up is a skald, a blight druid, a rogue, a bloodrager, and myself.
As you can tell, we are light on divine and arcane power, but very effective in melee.
So what does everyone here suggest I do at fifth level? Do I go for better combat effectiveness in being aggressive or enhance my will savings right to keep me from being taken out in one shot spells?
And yes I am saving my gold to buy duelist gloves as soon as possible.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Put simply, warrior spirit is by far the most powerful option given to the fighter in a looong time, it will make your dpr increase considerably.
Armed bravery is very good, but unless you fear encountering an host of mind controlling opponents it can probably wait until level 9 and in the meanwhile you can make do with Iron Will at 6th.
P.S.
Considering your party set up an enemy mind controller that knows what he's doing is more likely to target the bloodrager than you as he dishes out more damage. Unless this assumption is wrong then making yourself into more of a threat is even more important.
Going full offense DOES fit the Viking theme we are going for.
oh. I was wondering why this was considered a powerful option when it seemed similar to various divine bond style mechanics.
But it lets you use the enhancement bonus to get ANY weapon enhancement (as long as you have the appropriate +1 to start with). That makes a lot of the niche weapon enhancements far, far more powerful. Because you can pick the abilities up when they are necessary (example- ghost touch)
This basically lets you also grab the inquisitor's bane ability- since you can grab whatever (insert monster here) bane that you want. So means you spend +1 enhancement, but you can get +2 enhancement and some extra damage. That is always useful. You can also get things like holy.
Yeah, you can let the mind stuff wait. This seems good. If you are really worried about it, play a dual minded half elf (who get enough bonuses that they can make the cleric jealous for will saves early on, and they can be used to get a good will save even at high levels without armed bravery... assuming iron will and some other minor investments).
Already built, human fighter.
DM hates me already, he can’t hit me and I do enough damage that I cannot be ignored.
Too keep up with the Bloodrager, I think I’ll take Mystic Warrior.
Yep, I just ran into the exact same dilemma for my Giantslayer fighter. I have trouble with will saves and thought Armed Bravery was awesome... but then I realized that my +1 weapon can become +2/ Giant or dragon or undead or anything else Bane and I had to jump on that. It gives a lot of versatility. If I can increase my axe to a +2... then Holy becomes an option.
Eventually with levels and/or improvements I can get a Holy/WhateverBane??? That's just amazing stuff there. This guy already hits like a truck and damage is a lot more consistent than will saves. Even if this game has me rolling more then I usually do...
The only downside to warrior spirit is that it takes a standard action to activate.
The only downside to warrior spirit is that it takes a standard action to activate.
Yeah, same as the Paladin's Divine Bond. Though in my opinion it's better. Paladin's have a set list of enhancements they can add (with Bane NOT on the list) while Warrior Spirit doesn't.
The only downside to warrior spirit is that it takes a standard action to activate.
Well, between that and it only ever being usable once per day, for one minute, which is basically one combat, and it being limited in the endgame based on your weapon's enhancement bonus total. Great for those boss fights where it matters, but compared to an all-day Will Save boost, I'd rather have the permanent bonus to something that can really make me have a bad time/session.
Though, I am curious if you take an Advanced Weapon Training Feat for Warrior Spirit (and not a default Advanced Weapon Training option), you could get multiple uses of it if you later take Abundant Tactics for that option...
It would certainly make Warrior Spirit much more attractive in comparison to Armed Bravery, but I have my sneaking suspicions it doesn't work that way.
Exactly. I had to read it a few times to catch that myself. You get 1+ your weapon training bonus... .so at 9th when it becomes available, you automatically start out with 3 uses each for 10 minutes
Which is an interesting point, the Fighter class says that you can't switch your first Weapon Training at level 5 for Advanced Weapon Training. That specifically calls out 'Starting at level 9, you can choose an advanced weapon technique'
However, there is also 'Advanced Weapon Training' as a feat that you can get at level 5, so that's what I'm assuming your doing. Same thing with Advanced Armor training... and honestly for the Feat choices... I started with Armored Juggernaut and Armor specialization before I started grabbing the Advanced weapon feats... but to each their own :)
Exactly. I had to read it a few times to catch that myself. You get 1+ your weapon training bonus... .so at 9th when it becomes available, you automatically start out with 3 uses each for 10 minutes
How is it 10 minutes? What am I missing?
In either case, these bonuses last for 1 minute.
The thing you do once each day is choose the weapon that will be receiving the bonuses. Actually getting the weapon bonuses uses up the spiritual energy pool, and is limited by that number. These are probably two seperate standard actions, so you should choose your weapon at the start of the day.
Your uses are 1 plus your weapon training bonus, which should be 1 at level 5, for a total of 2.
|
What's awesome is that I've always understood Duelist Gloves to improve your actual Weapon Training, so they would consequently improve Warrior's Spirit, which makes them STUPIDLY good. It essentially translates to a 5/day Warrior's Spirit at level 9 that gives you +4 worth of enhancement. It's NUTS.
Some might interpret that differently, though.
Oh, I get it now. Disregard my initial complaint.
I'm still curious if Abundant Tactics would work with a limited Advanced Weapon Training option if it was taken as a Feat and not by typical means...
As to the initial question, all I can think of is that kid from the commercial*.
"Why not both...?"
Another limitation is that you are limited to only one weapon special ability per use of this ability. So, if your weapon already has a +5 enhancement bonus, you are probably going to end up wasting some of your bonus. You may even be tempted to keep two weapons. One for regular use and one to get the maximum benefit of this ability.
The fighter can also imbue the weapon with any one weapon special ability
Another limitation is that you are limited to only one weapon special ability per use of this ability. So, if your weapon already has a +5 enhancement bonus, you are probably going to end up wasting some of your bonus. You may even be tempted to keep two weapons. One for regular use and one to get the maximum benefit of this ability.
The fighter can also imbue the weapon with any one weapon special ability
Me an my Brilliant weapon at level 7 of weapon master tend to disagree with you.
Let's also not forget that these enhancement bonuses are not limited in the same way that Greater magic weapon is, which means your +5 weapon most likely allows you to bypass a lot of DR, thus enhancing your EDV.
And it allows for good opportunity cost relocation, allowing an eventual +1 agile cruel merciful keen holy impact sword, that you then boost with bane plus +4
Me an my Brilliant weapon at level 7 of weapon master tend to disagree with you.
Would you expand on that? It sounds like you may just be doing what I said. Having one weapon designed to benefit from Warrior Spirit, and another weapon for when it isn't available.
Well I just mean that even though you are limited to any ONE ability, a lot of those are really awesome.
Brilliant is usually considered much too expansive for what it does, mostly because vs Undead and constructs (abundant types in PF) its useless. Not not as good, useless.
But if you can slap it on at level 7 because you know the encounter coming up wont have undead or constructs, its really good.
And you don't need to have multiple weapons, have a good ''base'' weapon that is only +1 and has some other enhancements and use warrior spirit for versatility.
Impact, agile, keen and others are all good base abilities, the ability to slap on +2 to +7 amount of various abilities that you can customise to the situation at hand is priceless.
Also I don't see why any fighter would ever have more than a +1 weapon anyways, Greater magic weapon + Karma beads is very common and scales better.
What is your CHA? Does Armed Bravery do anything for you that Improved Bravery (Ultimate Intrigue) does not?
What is your CHA? Does Armed Bravery do anything for you that Improved Bravery (Ultimate Intrigue) does not?
Damn you master marshmallow, your guide threw off my whole consideration that fighters are better off dumping cha!!! NOW I HAVE TO HAVE BSF'S WITH CHARISMA!!!!
But seriously, love your guide, big fan.
And in this particular case, VERY appropriate.
to the OP: Improved bravery is less solid than armed bravery (mind affecting vs pure will save, 95% of will saves are mind affecting, but there's always that pesky monster with weird abilities, or a negative channel cleric, or glitterdust), but is a feat so it,s less of a tax on your build (since a lot of advanced weapon training are REALLY good) so it's a very good opportuity cost to consider.
I'd say that if you have the CHA, go for imp. bravery and warrior spirit, if you don't consider the likelihood of Will save DC using ennemies in future encounters. (are you fighting an evil wizard? an evil cleric? seducing demons? Trolls?)
Level 7 is in the sweet spot of the ability. Your weapons don’t have big bonuses yet, so none of the bonus goes to waste. I was warning about later levels, when +5 weapons are normal.
Level 7 is in the sweet spot of the ability. Your weapons don’t have big bonuses yet, so none of the bonus goes to waste. I was warning about later levels, when +5 weapons are normal.
Even at later levels, why would you have a +5 weapon? especially if you have the warrior spirit power.
Consider what is better:
A +1 Keen Holy Axiomatic Impact Spell Storing agile weapon (as an exemple)
to which you can add either:
G.M.W for an effective +5 weapon
OR
Warrior spirit for +4 enhancement bonus, and bane vs whatever you're fighting (effectively giving you a +7 weapon)
or
A +5 Keen holy Impact weapon to which you can apply an enhancement of your choice.
One is clearly more effective, and in fact, warrior spirit can actually nudge you towards having a weapon that is less than +10, in order to save costs.
If we take our above +5 Holy impact keen weapon, and make it +1 instead, and then apply warrior spirit on it, then we have saved 128 000 gp.
That's a +4 inherent bonus to your constitution or other stat, and a dueling glove, and then some change.
to the OP: Improved bravery is less solid than armed bravery (mind affecting vs pure will save, 95% of will saves are mind affecting, but there's always that pesky monster with weird abilities, or a negative channel cleric, or glitterdust), but is a feat so it,s less of a tax on your build (since a lot of advanced weapon training are REALLY good) so it's a very good opportuity cost to consider.
While it's true that Improved Bravery doesn't cover quite as much as Armed Bravery, it covers enough.
Folks don't worry about fighters' Will saves because of channels, and it isn't because they're saying, "Watch out for glamers, yo.". The overwhelming majority of things people care about are mind-affecting phenomena, which Improved Bravery handles just fine.
EDIT: hell, UI also had the feat Inspiring Bravery. Hand out your Will bonus to all your allies within 30 feet, too. Charisma Fighters ftw!
to the OP: Improved bravery is less solid than armed bravery (mind affecting vs pure will save, 95% of will saves are mind affecting, but there's always that pesky monster with weird abilities, or a negative channel cleric, or glitterdust), but is a feat so it,s less of a tax on your build (since a lot of advanced weapon training are REALLY good) so it's a very good opportuity cost to consider.While it's true that Improved Bravery doesn't cover quite as much as Armed Bravery, it covers enough.
Folks don't worry about fighters' Will saves because of channels, and it isn't because they're saying, "Watch out for glamers, yo.". The overwhelming majority of things people care about are mind-affecting phenomena, which Improved Bravery handles just fine.
EDIT: hell, UI also had the feat Inspiring Bravery. Hand out your Will bonus to all your allies within 30 feet, too. Charisma Fighters ftw!
I KNOW RIGHT!!!?
And yeah, it does cover enough, the only major downpoints would be, perhaps, glitterdust and bestow curse, two common effects. But what you gain in exchange for this weakness is a free slot of advanced weapon training, so it's worth it.
I'll also point out that Armed Bravery requires your weapon in hand. You might occasionally come across situations where that won't fly. ("Dude, throne room. Put that thing down; you're gonna get us all killed.")
Be trained with gauntlets, wear your armor. Armed Bravery always active.
Damage Reduction, mostly. GMW doesn't count towards overcoming it.Even at later levels, why would you have a +5 weapon?
But AFAIK, warrior spirit does.
But then you aren't using it for Brilliant Energy. So it depends on what tradeoffs you want.
Exactly, however, brilliant energy was simply an exemple of a situational bonus that could be accrued, the most effective use of warrior spirit being the ability to grab bane vs anything you are fighting, and then putting the difference towards enhancement bonus.
You can also always mix and match, have GMW active and warrior spirit up for when you need DR bypass, and then you have leeway towards using warrior spirit for brilliant,vorpal, wounding or whatnot.
It's a bit more clunky, but what wouldn't you do to free up 128 000 gp :)
Be trained with gauntlets, wear your armor. Armed Bravery always active.
That mostly solves that issue, at the cost of having committed your Weapon Training to the close group. Enjoy your klar... ;)
In most campaigns you don’t get to custom build your own weapons. So, having your main weapon be +5 with some random special ability is much more likely. Even with crafting feats, that’s not usually an option since those take so much time.
What is your CHA? Does Armed Bravery do anything for you that Improved Bravery (Ultimate Intrigue) does not?
I dumped CHR. I had to focus on STR, DEX, and CON.
AND...I just can not play a dumb fighter...I allotted points to INT.
In most campaigns you don’t get to custom build your own weapons. So, having your main weapon be +5 with some random special ability is much more likely. Even with crafting feats, that’s not usually an option since those take so much time.
That hasn't been my experience at all, nevertheless mileage does vary and I understand your argument and acknowledge it. In a non customisable weapon world, being able to apply effective bonuses to a maximum number of situations is very efficient.
Exactly. I had to read it a few times to catch that myself. You get 1+ your weapon training bonus... .so at 9th when it becomes available, you automatically start out with 3 uses each for 10 minutesHow is it 10 minutes? What am I missing?
In either case, these bonuses last for 1 minute.
You're right, I meant rounds... which covers a great deal of battles. I gotta watch what I type that late at night.
Be trained with gauntlets, wear your armor. Armed Bravery always active.That mostly solves that issue, at the cost of having committed your Weapon Training to the close group. Enjoy your klar... ;)
Yeah, no, Klar is only good if you go Thunder and Fang. It's otherwise by-and-large useless, since a Heavy Shield can do just as much damage, if not more, and is more likely to be proficient with. It can even count as a Light Weapon, making TWF a more appealing option.
Compared to trying to use a Klar, some characters just outright can't use them, and others have to deal with a weaker overall chassis.
Sure, I was just looking over the list of close weapons, and klar is really the best name of the bunch.
Klar. Klar-klar-klar.
Klar is a light weapon with no investment. Heavy shield isn't.
Always good to have a light weapon in case of.. swallowing. So klar isn't so bad.
Wow, the klar isn't even a light weapon? Jinkies, you'd better love Thunder and Fang if you want to use a klar. But I think we're straying off the OP's point, here... :-)
Nope. A FAQ was required because people (well, one person,) were/was suggesting that the Klar could be TWFd with itself because it can be used to both bash as a light shield and attack as a one-handed weapon. They also suggested that they could apply things like Shield Spikes, make it Throwing (imagine a Throwing Klar, that'd be both cool and weird at the same time), and other similar shenanigans.
On top of that, the original wording was confusing and used improper game terms anyway, so it needed a tune-up.
Nope. A FAQ was required because people (well, one person,) were/was suggesting that the Klar could be TWFd with itself because it can be used to both bash as a light shield and attack as a one-handed weapon. They also suggested that they could apply things like Shield Spikes, make it Throwing (imagine a Throwing Klar, that'd be both cool and weird at the same time), and other similar shenanigans.
On top of that, the original wording was confusing and used improper game terms anyway, so it needed a tune-up.
I have a hard time imagining a klar period...
I have a hard time imagining a klar period...
We were young, we all thought we were cool with the spikes and all, then one day we woke up and realized that we looked silly. And that was the end of the klar period.
I have a hard time imagining a klar period...We were young, we all thought we were cool with the spikes and all, then one day we woke up and realized that we looked silly. And that was the end of the klar period.
I can see it... a bunch of kids, layed out on the lawn, high on Klar....
until one of them dies and it's not the same anymore...they feel they failed him...
KLARS KILL!!!!
No but seriously... do you have an image or something? The F*** is a klar!!!
Google image search "Pathfinder klar" ftw (no sarcasm meant, your answer is literally right there). It's supposed to be a shield made and used by some of the Varisian barbarian tribes.