Blowing up the Opera House :)


Hell's Rebels


Thought I'd post what my party is doing. After NOT attending the Ruby Masquerade at all, I mean "We were warned its a trap! Were staying clear", the party gets arrested the next day and is kept in the basement of the Opera. Breaks out, after just checking Thrune's room (by chance the third room they entered) leaving Shensen there. Its a statue so? Now the plan is to use the sabotage teams and rig the Opera House from the outside with explosives completely taking it down. Sadly no wizard was available for hire, the initial plan was to hire someone with wish or miracle to do a big boom. Sooooo... Jilia And Shensen stay buried under the rumble for the next few centuries till the next party decides to explore. Along with any treasure. Not the exploring types, the all out war with Thrune types.


I might observe...

Spoiler:

Performing the Song of Silver requires the Opera House. So blowing it up and leaving it in ruins may have other negative consequences other than not rescuing Shensen, restoring Jilia or getting a crap load of loot.

Also, it's a pretty important place in the Kintargo mindset - blowing it up after the Masquerade seems a desperate and harsh thing to do. The population is unlikely to look kindly on the Silver Ravens.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yup. The whole point is that they know they are walking into the trap. It's the best means of exposing Thrune's villainy.


Latrecis wrote:

I might observe...

** spoiler omitted **

I agree entirely. Nuking the opera house basically proves Barz entirely right about the Ravens. Since the Massacre was already pinned on them, nuking the Opera House further cements that the Ravens are nothing more than ye olde fantasy terrorists. I'd have every NPC you have heavily impress on them that this is a horrible idea and that they stand to lose the support of Kintargo and if they lose the city in the court of public opinion, their revolution is basically dead in the water.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tarik Blackhands wrote:
Latrecis wrote:

I might observe...

** spoiler omitted **

I agree entirely. Nuking the opera house basically proves Barz entirely right about the Ravens. Since the Massacre was already pinned on them, nuking the Opera House further cements that the Ravens are nothing more than ye olde fantasy terrorists. I'd have every NPC you have heavily impress on them that this is a horrible idea and that they stand to lose the support of Kintargo and if they lose the city in the court of public opinion, their revolution is basically dead in the water.

Yup. Have the numerous NPCs who support the Ravens talk them out of this.

If the plan relies on them hiring someone to cast a high level spell, you are the DM and you can make the high level spellcasters vanish.

Finally, if they still are going ahead with the plan, make it clear that there are lots of women and children in the opera house for Barzillai's ball.

If they still go ahead with it, turn them evil, because they earned it.

Grand Lodge Contributor

On top of it being a bad idea it would take an insane amount of explosives to destroy a building of that size. So much so that I wouldn't allow it in my game. Having said that, my group destroyed the Records Hall with a scroll of earthquake and a bunch of Plot Twist cards to allow the spell to work on the building.


Interesting takes. Yakman this is after the ball so there's only Thrune supporters there. I mentioned that people may be buried in the lower levels but the party's take is "Collateral damage. Surely its dotari and we'll take it." Also suggested this is a major landmark, had Rexus and Hetamon dissagree but they're running with the idea of "Building a new Kintargo" After about an hours discussion I just managed to get them to abandon the blow up the bridge also idea. After that it seemed like I was pushing it too much. They have Marquel writting and distributing propaganda, inviting people to Aria park where they will take it to the next level. Also they had before the ball send out messages to all the nobles warning them not to attend (who warned others, I lowered the ball attendance to 200 from 300) and have done a lot of political manoevers in that direction. I still agree its a bad idea but at this point I would really have to force it. (There are no high level spellcasters, they want to rig it with explosives and take down the top floors, or burn it, or or or... to the point where I cant make it solid and fireproof etc)

Basically, invite everyone to the park, show up in full force (all teams and mercenaries), blow up the place and start killing every dotari they see taking Thrune on in open war. I plan to run with that even if it means end of campaign one way or the other. Any advice on how to proceed would be welcome.

Edit: Even though they have not explored the Opera they have convinced everyone there are escape tunnels, so anyone trapped can get out.


IMO the Song really isn't that important anyway, gain DR penetration that the party no doubt already has and somewhat hinder teleportation. Any squishy NPCs who gain benefits will get chainsawed by the outsiders


Shaun Hocking wrote:
On top of it being a bad idea it would take an insane amount of explosives to destroy a building of that size. So much so that I wouldn't allow it in my game. Having said that, my group destroyed the Records Hall with a scroll of earthquake and a bunch of Plot Twist cards to allow the spell to work on the building.

They suggested Earthquake too. I though explosives were more likely to be found than a scroll of Earthquake. I suppose I could run it that way.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alni wrote:
Shaun Hocking wrote:
On top of it being a bad idea it would take an insane amount of explosives to destroy a building of that size. So much so that I wouldn't allow it in my game. Having said that, my group destroyed the Records Hall with a scroll of earthquake and a bunch of Plot Twist cards to allow the spell to work on the building.
They suggested Earthquake too. I though explosives were more likely to be found than a scroll of Earthquake. I suppose I could run it that way.

at this point, blowing up the opera house is just a straight up terrorist act.

All, or most, of the city is against them since they skipped the Ruby Masquerade. All blowing up the opera house is going to accomplish is finish off their support and give the city over to Thrune.


Yakman wrote:
Alni wrote:
Shaun Hocking wrote:
On top of it being a bad idea it would take an insane amount of explosives to destroy a building of that size. So much so that I wouldn't allow it in my game. Having said that, my group destroyed the Records Hall with a scroll of earthquake and a bunch of Plot Twist cards to allow the spell to work on the building.
They suggested Earthquake too. I though explosives were more likely to be found than a scroll of Earthquake. I suppose I could run it that way.

at this point, blowing up the opera house is just a straight up terrorist act.

All, or most, of the city is against them since they skipped the Ruby Masquerade. All blowing up the opera house is going to accomplish is finish off their support and give the city over to Thrune.

The situation is: They skipped the Masquerade but warned people Thrune was planning something and they should stay away. Given that they didnt lose much support after revisiting their allies with "Thrune did have something planned after all" and right now half the nobles believe they owe them their lives. They have further convinced a lot of Thrune loyalists whos families got killed at the Masquerade that he doesnt care who he kills and have got support from there too. Also send news to Vyre, first thing after the ball with their version of events. There's details there I wont get into but they do have support still. There will be no "civilians" in the opera when they blow it up either. The issue is (a) its a landmark (theyre using propaganda to connect it to Thrune) and (b) theyre looking for an all out war. Which means skipping Part 2 completely I think.

Edit: Theyve even been donating funds and personaly visiting the families of those who died in the Masquerade. And the party face is a Cha based / high diplomacy and the rp has been good. Generally, its been well handled.

I havent given support lightly but if instead of taking the Records Hall they want to go with food and provision to X guys widow, I dont see why not. Also the party is locals from Kintargo, the party leader a Milani worshiper for years now. "Our kids, I knew his dad we played cards together" vs "That idiot they send from Chelliax"

Acquisitives

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ok. Think I got it now.

...

Seems to me that this is a distraction. Thrune has lots of replaceable mooks in there and that's why they are going after it.

I'd suggest, humbly, speeding up the events of 4. Make them focus on important stuff, not demolition. Put Thrune on the offense. Start pealing them bells, and send in the assassins. Get that Dragon in the skies. If they insist on wasting table time, have some NPC run in saying that the dotari have abandoned the opera house.

Adventure stuff, you know, not waste of time stuff.


Hmm, I'm interested in how you're playing this...

Spoiler:

Book 4 is set to start immediately after the Masquerade whether the pc's attend or not. And the first thing that happens in Book 4 is Barzillai starts reprisals. As many as 4 per day based on his authority points.

There shouldn't be any time available for the pc's to meet with families of those lost in the Dance, or plan a rally or engineer the destruction of a building. They should be too busy keeping the people of Kintargo from dying at Thrune's hands and the city from going up in flames.

Did the pc's close the Menador Gap? That's implied to have happened prior to the Masquerade - that's an open act of military aggression. It too should trigger reprisals.

Their focus should be on stabilizing the districts and stopping casualties among the civilian population.

And while the DR reduction may not do much for the pc's, it applies for the entirety of Kintargo - everyone gets that benefit. And there's a good chance more people than the pc's will need to fight devils. Performing the Song of Silver should be a significant morale boost to the people of Kintargo. And getting breath of life or automatic success on a saving throw as an immediate action seems pretty potent benefit for the pc's to me. Losing access to it seems a serious loss.


I'll post on how it goes after the next session but for now....

Spoiler:

Yes, they did close Menador Gap. They didn't loot or fight (but they did free the halflings). The rogue went in first solo and found the fastest route, then they went directly there, activated the mechanism and the mage teleported them away. Lucian Thrune got away, they never even saw him.

On the night of the Masquerade they were outside the Opera house watching to see what happens. No one comes out, they gather at the Lucky Bones and have a meeting that night. (The decision not to go was after the Inspector Tayacet event. She tells them its a trap and they shouldn't go. I assume the writers meant for the pcs to ignore her advice but my party thought she was right, thanked her and stayed clear.)

Next day as they're out and about (spread out, each member at their own home / shop / workplace) the dotari show up and arrest them. They seduce and kill the guards and break out. They decide enthusiastically -since they're in the Opera anyway- to find Thrune and kill him. They open 3 rooms and find Thrunes quarters. Seeing that his belonging are moved they run out just killing anything on the way to the exit. Same day they make a rush to all the nobles, while the teams are out spreading the word (they don't meet everyone themselves but the nobles for sure). They ask Sagraeta to go to Vyre as soon as possible and get Molly to tell the Queen their version so it spreads there that they're the good guys. 1st day reprisals are kinda light (more patrols sorta)

1st day night they free Hetamon, after Octavius finds him. Enter the ritual room and kill his mother, pick up Hetamon and leave. I hint at "Wont you check the rest of the building" and get "No, we came for Hetamon. We got him." So they don't meet Shensen's pet, who could possibly tell them where she is.

2nd day they continue with the propaganda. Dragon burns down building with their followers and I send an assassin after the mage (mage wins initiative, casts black tentacles and runs for his life... I enjoyed that bit) and something else that I don't remember (rolled those) This gets them to the point "Enough of Thrune. We wont sit and go bit by bit anymore. We're doing something big to escalate things fast and draw him into a confrontation". So we're at 2nd day night. The plan right now is to blow the Opera house 3-4 days later.

Its a neutral party, rebel style with the goal of making Kintargo a democracy independent of Chelliax. (And, by the way DM, if we could get a title out of this and some land and a really nice lifestyle we'd love that too)

Edit: Generally there's crazy hate and distrust for Thrune. End of book 2 at Aria Park, only the leader and the warrior showed for the "award". The rest were in disguise in the crowd ready to attack if it came to it along with all the NPCs and teams. Thrune's gifts "We throw away" and the initial plan being "**** him, we're not showing up at all. It's a trap".

Acquisitives

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Alni wrote:

I'll post on how it goes after the next session but for now....

** spoiler omitted **...

Spoiler:
very good stuff. if they still have the lucky bones or some other hideout, Lucian (with an extra level or two) might be a fun fella to lead an assault like the ruby masquerade - with a host of devils jumping through the windows, and setting the place on fire.
lots of fun to be had. enjoy!

Last session was short so the update is:

Day 3 (Opera will go down on Day 5) They take the Bridge. Bad weather, public excruciations 12 people die. (I told them it takes 3 days to secretly move explosives to the Opera, so that they did some of the other stuff in between. A bit railroading but not unreasonable I think... they really need the XP they'll get slaughtered in the temple)

Team meeting decided:
- They will take Kintargo Keep on Day 4 (since there's no Shensen or Mayor around I send an anonymous letter that the old Raven leader is held there).
- They decided the Records Hall is not important for now and can wait till after they confront Thrune.
- My FAVORITE! NPCs ask "What about the dragon?" The party: "This whole dragon thing? It's rumors! We're not falling for it! There is no dragon!" Out of Game: "Common DM. You REALLY think we'd believe there's a dragon in Kintargo? It's either some hologram thing or a lizard that got blown out of proportion." I can't wait to introduce them to the "lizard" :D

Acquisitives

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alni wrote:

Last session was short so the update is:

Day 3 (Opera will go down on Day 5) They take the Bridge. Bad weather, public excruciations 12 people die. (I told them it takes 3 days to secretly move explosives to the Opera, so that they did some of the other stuff in between. A bit railroading but not unreasonable I think... they really need the XP they'll get slaughtered in the temple)

Team meeting decided:
- They will take Kintargo Keep on Day 4 (since there's no Shensen or Mayor around I send an anonymous letter that the old Raven leader is held there).
- They decided the Records Hall is not important for now and can wait till after they confront Thrune.
- My FAVORITE! NPCs ask "What about the dragon?" The party: "This whole dragon thing? It's rumors! We're not falling for it! There is no dragon!" Out of Game: "Common DM. You REALLY think we'd believe there's a dragon in Kintargo? It's either some hologram thing or a lizard that got blown out of proportion." I can't wait to introduce them to the "lizard" :D

sounds like a good game.

Spoiler:
Dragon THEM UP


Yakman wrote:
Alni wrote:

Last session was short so the update is:

Day 3 (Opera will go down on Day 5) They take the Bridge. Bad weather, public excruciations 12 people die. (I told them it takes 3 days to secretly move explosives to the Opera, so that they did some of the other stuff in between. A bit railroading but not unreasonable I think... they really need the XP they'll get slaughtered in the temple)

Team meeting decided:
- They will take Kintargo Keep on Day 4 (since there's no Shensen or Mayor around I send an anonymous letter that the old Raven leader is held there).
- They decided the Records Hall is not important for now and can wait till after they confront Thrune.
- My FAVORITE! NPCs ask "What about the dragon?" The party: "This whole dragon thing? It's rumors! We're not falling for it! There is no dragon!" Out of Game: "Common DM. You REALLY think we'd believe there's a dragon in Kintargo? It's either some hologram thing or a lizard that got blown out of proportion." I can't wait to introduce them to the "lizard" :D

sounds like a good game.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Haha! I think I'll have it waiting for them when they're leaving the Keep. Otherwise the temple will be a TPK. Really looking forward to "OMG! There was a REAL dragon???"
Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alni wrote:
Yakman wrote:
Alni wrote:

Last session was short so the update is:

Day 3 (Opera will go down on Day 5) They take the Bridge. Bad weather, public excruciations 12 people die. (I told them it takes 3 days to secretly move explosives to the Opera, so that they did some of the other stuff in between. A bit railroading but not unreasonable I think... they really need the XP they'll get slaughtered in the temple)

Team meeting decided:
- They will take Kintargo Keep on Day 4 (since there's no Shensen or Mayor around I send an anonymous letter that the old Raven leader is held there).
- They decided the Records Hall is not important for now and can wait till after they confront Thrune.
- My FAVORITE! NPCs ask "What about the dragon?" The party: "This whole dragon thing? It's rumors! We're not falling for it! There is no dragon!" Out of Game: "Common DM. You REALLY think we'd believe there's a dragon in Kintargo? It's either some hologram thing or a lizard that got blown out of proportion." I can't wait to introduce them to the "lizard" :D

sounds like a good game.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
tpk is not always a bad thing...

Final update. After rescuing the Jackdaw and learning the Song of Silver, Rexus comes up with the info about the song and the Opera House. At which point the party starts sulking real life and going "Whatever, fine you just don't want us to blow it up" and I almost cut the session short ("What do you do next?" "Whatever" continuously doesn't make for a good game). After a short break we're back to normal thankfully. The Opera House doesn't get blown up. Instead they give a big speech to a crowd they've gathered at Aria Park "Kintargo for the people blah blah", present all evidence they have against Thrune publicly and have Marquel Aulorian sing the song of Silver so that the house glows at the end and makes a big effect. (Yeah, no perform (sing) on Marquel but there was no one else, so I suggested he'd try, and they're quite friendly with the poet that writes propaganda for them so...)

Opera glows, the dotari and chellish guard arrive in big numbers and a general riot breaks out between Thrune and Raven supporters that spills out in the streets. The dragon arrives at Aria Park targeting the party, that was quite a good battle and think made up for evil-DM-who-railroads-us. And after they retreated for the night (planing to go to the temple of Asmodeus next) I gave them a big description of all night riots spurred by their anti-Thrune speech (shops burning, civilians with makeshift weapons, looting, the good and the bad of a revolution).

Hell's Rebels is quite interesting by this point. Came off a Wrath of the Righteous campaign and it felt underwhelming at first but its turning out quite nice. The pcs are quite invested in their small city :D

Edit. Honorable mention.
"So who can sing this?"
"Shensen could"
"That's statue we found?"
"Yes, that extremely lifelike statue you found"
"Meh, well she's not around and Thrune's a perv. Who else do we have?"


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I get the impression I might have similar problems when I start running my Hell's Rebels game...
One of the first things out of a player's mouth when I gave told them the basic idea of the game was that they were going to make a sorcerer, fly above town, and blow buildings up.

Convincing them that blowing up the opera house is a bad idea isn't railroading; it was you letting them know that bad things would likely happen if they were to do that.
They could have done it but really, why would the people of Kintargo follow a group that destroys important buildings that mean something to them?

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