So what are the odds these 3.5 gems will come back in Pathfinder?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Create Wondrous Creature: Lets you make monsters like Chimeras.There is a 3rd party port but still we got craft ooze, why can't we get this back?

Monkey Grip: Let you hold a two-handed weapon in one hand. This one was OP as hell but you could probably balance it out with a STR 18-20 requirement or worse... probably worse.

Gem Jump: This was a spell that let you teleport to a gemstone by linking it to another identical gem. I can't remember if you could go back and forth or if it was one way. Still a handy spell for moving loot.

Mindflayer / Illithid: Psychic brain eating monster from Cthulhus fan-art collection. I know actual D&D holds a copyright on these guys but come on. We have Psychic classes in the game now and need some Psychic monsters. And these guys are THE Psychic monster. I am sure someone can come up with a replacement version for Pathfinder. Maybe they have proboscis instead of a mouth, tentacles for hair, three eyes, eight fingers per hand, neon-blue skin, and five arms the fifth being in the middle of their chest, and bone like scythes for its four legs. There take it and make some Psychic brain eating monsters.


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Pretty sure Mindflayer/Illithid are protected content, like beholders.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There are dozens of psychic monsters in Pathfinder, starting with the whole Occult Bestiary, and Intellect Devourers are pretty much the replacement for Mind Flayers as far as brain-eating monsters go.


Eidolons are probably the closest thing to creating a chimera by yourself. Ultimate Magic adds the option of multiple heads, which is sadly not available for the Unchained summoner - I guess due to page count. It's not like the UM evolutions are overpowered in comparison to the APG ones, so there is a chance to convince your GM.

You can totally wield a two-handed weapon in one hand, with a barbarian (titan mauler) 2. The price is high (specific class, specific archetype, -2 attack bonus), but if you find style more important than numbers, it's a great choice.

Grand Lodge

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Gorbacz wrote:
There are dozens of psychic monsters in Pathfinder, starting with the whole Occult Bestiary, and Intellect Devourers are pretty much the replacement for Mind Flayers as far as brain-eating monsters go.

Also see the Neh-Thalggu from Bestiary 2, though they only collect brains, not eat them.


lighten weapon feat is pretty much a better version of monkey grip

Dark Archive

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Arutema wrote:
Also see the Neh-Thalggu from Bestiary 2, though they only collect brains, not eat them.

Yeah, that's what they tell you during the marketing pitch.

"Oh no, we don't eat the succulent brains, we just lovingly collect them and keep them safe and clean by occasionally licking them... Ahem, to sum up, you can totally trust us with your brains."

<Goes back to trying to genetically engineer a new species of humanoid with skulls that have lids that screw on and off, for ease of access to the delicious contents...>


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Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Pretty sure Mindflayer/Illithid are protected content, like beholders.

And slaadi. {sighs, goes back to reading How to Become A Protean for Dummies book}


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You start by breaking everything, and then put it back together as a teenager that is trying to be subtle would put it back together.


You can craft creatures with Fleshwarper feat.

You can wield big weapons with Titan Mauler archetype.

Gem Jump sounds amazingly niche, so it's unlikely.

As said above, there are many psychic brain related monsters already in the game.


Lady-J wrote:
lighten weapon feat is pretty much a better version of monkey grip

Not a Pathfinder feat. That's a 3pp kobold press feat. Most tables ban all 3pp.


"Monkey Grip: Let you hold a two-handed weapon in one hand. This one was OP as hell but you could probably balance it out with a STR 18-20 requirement or worse... probably worse."

OP? You take a -2 penalty for an average of +2.5 or 3 damage (large longsword does 2d6, odds are you roll a 7). Nah its not that bad.


And you can use a reach weapon in one hand and a light weapon in the other. Or perhaps a sheild?

Shadow Lodge

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And then you add in Impact weapons, enlarge person, and Vital Strike so VS gets used outside of Druid builds. :)


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Dragonborn3 wrote:
And then you add in Impact weapons, enlarge person, and Vital Strike so VS gets used outside of Druid builds. :)

Gorumite Warpriests are already doing quite well with Vital Strike.

TBH, I don't like the whole "use two-handed weapons in one hand" idea, just because the reasons people want to do this are generally something like "I'm going to stack an oversized weapon, impact, and enlarge person to do a whole lot of damage" which I don't care for aesthetically (weapons that are much too large to wield practically bug me) and "trying to figure out how much damage a gargantuan estoc would do" is probably going to give me a headache.


Alchemist 23 wrote:

Create Wondrous Creature: Lets you make monsters like Chimeras.There is a 3rd party port but still we got craft ooze, why can't we get this back?

Monkey Grip: Let you hold a two-handed weapon in one hand. This one was OP as hell but you could probably balance it out with a STR 18-20 requirement or worse... probably worse.

Gem Jump: This was a spell that let you teleport to a gemstone by linking it to another identical gem. I can't remember if you could go back and forth or if it was one way. Still a handy spell for moving loot.

Mindflayer / Illithid: Psychic brain eating monster from Cthulhus fan-art collection. I know actual D&D holds a copyright on these guys but come on. We have Psychic classes in the game now and need some Psychic monsters. And these guys are THE Psychic monster. I am sure someone can come up with a replacement version for Pathfinder. Maybe they have proboscis instead of a mouth, tentacles for hair, three eyes, eight fingers per hand, neon-blue skin, and five arms the fifth being in the middle of their chest, and bone like scythes for its four legs. There take it and make some Psychic brain eating monsters.

Create Wondrous Creature: I don't see this one coming back. It would be too hard to balance, just like its hard to create a balanced race. That is part of the problem with the summoner's eidolon, unless you just made most of the choices flavor based and then people would complain about it.

Monkey Grip: This was not really all that great. You had a -2 penalty IIRC, and the base damage of a weapon is not where the majority of the damage come in. It's from the additional damage.

Gem Jump: I don't remember this one.

Mindflayer / Illithid: They already do. The Phrenic Scrouge is mindflayer like. Look at its Sap Will ability and compare it to the Mindflayer's Mind Blast. Also look at it's SLA's.


.


Gemjump is from the Forgotten Realms.


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wraithstrike wrote:


Mindflayer / Illithid: They already do. The Phrenic Scrouge is mindflayer like. Look at its Sap Will ability and compare it to the Mindflayer's Mind Blast. Also look at it's SLA's.

That’s Dreamscarred Press 3rd party.


Xenocrat wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:


Mindflayer / Illithid: They already do. The Phrenic Scrouge is mindflayer like. Look at its Sap Will ability and compare it to the Mindflayer's Mind Blast. Also look at it's SLA's.
That’s Dreamscarred Press 3rd party.

Which is the only way those monster will ever enter Pathfinder. Paizo can't convert them directly, and the developers have stated they have no intention to do a version of those monsters with the serial numbers filed off.

At this point, I believe pretty much everything in the 3.5 SRD (with the exception of epic and divine rules) has been converted by Paizo in one way or another. I don't think Paizo converts old3rdparty content. So if you don't see it already, you likely never will. At least from an official Paizo product.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
And you can use a reach weapon in one hand and a light weapon in the other. Or perhaps a sheild?

Monkey Grip specifically says the handedness of the weapon still applies. So medium sized polearm (or any other 2-handed weapon) still requires both hands. You could, though, wield a large polearm and be fine.


Monkey Grip, see: Thunder and Fang

Mind Flayers, see: Neothelid


Jeraa wrote:
At this point, I believe pretty much everything in the 3.5 SRD (with the exception of epic and divine rules) has been converted by Paizo in one way or another.

There's still a few things like Ravids and Ethereal Marauders which haven't been ported over for some unknown reason.


I liked the sorcerer/wiz prestige class whose name I forget. Always one of my favorites


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
I liked the sorcerer/wiz prestige class whose name I forget. Always one of my favorites

Ultimate Magus.


isn't that basically the hybrid class of arcanist?


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Milo v3 wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
At this point, I believe pretty much everything in the 3.5 SRD (with the exception of epic and divine rules) has been converted by Paizo in one way or another.
There's still a few things like Ravids and Ethereal Marauders which haven't been ported over for some unknown reason.

Lack of general interest?


JiCi wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
At this point, I believe pretty much everything in the 3.5 SRD (with the exception of epic and divine rules) has been converted by Paizo in one way or another.
There's still a few things like Ravids and Ethereal Marauders which haven't been ported over for some unknown reason.
Lack of general interest?

That, and that they have already been converted in 3rd party publications.

I should have been more clear and specified "everything popular" has been converted by Paizo. There are some minor monsters and variant rules that haven't made it over yet, but those are also no where near as popular as the stuff that has been converted.


wraithstrike wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
I liked the sorcerer/wiz prestige class whose name I forget. Always one of my favorites
Ultimate Magus.

Yes. That. Loved the idea and never got to play one.


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HWalsh wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
lighten weapon feat is pretty much a better version of monkey grip
Not a Pathfinder feat. That's a 3pp kobold press feat. Most tables ban all 3pp.

Your experiences are far different from mine.


Jeraa wrote:
JiCi wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
At this point, I believe pretty much everything in the 3.5 SRD (with the exception of epic and divine rules) has been converted by Paizo in one way or another.
There's still a few things like Ravids and Ethereal Marauders which haven't been ported over for some unknown reason.
Lack of general interest?

That, and that they have already been converted in 3rd party publications.

I should have been more clear and specified "everything popular" has been converted by Paizo. There are some minor monsters and variant rules that haven't made it over yet, but those are also no where near as popular as the stuff that has been converted.

Whether or not these were converted by 3rd-parties is... irrelevant, as Paizo can just do it themselves. If these monsters are OGC, Paizo can use them too :P


Zhayne wrote:
HWalsh wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
lighten weapon feat is pretty much a better version of monkey grip
Not a Pathfinder feat. That's a 3pp kobold press feat. Most tables ban all 3pp.
Your experiences are far different from mine.

Yeah, mine either. I can see this in Pathfinder Society but how would anyone know how other home games play? Heck I wouldn't want to play Pathfinder without my beloved Path of War supplement.


The Aboleth (and all of its ilk) is basically the dominant psychic type of creature for Pathfinder and Golarion.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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I seem to recall sitting around with some friends in the 3.0/3.5 era and figuring out a way for a medium creature to wield a Colossal longsword. To me, the most amusing part was the idea of this 6' tall person wielding a 30 foot long sword, but only having 5' reach.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber
Fourshadow wrote:
The Aboleth (and all of its ilk) is basically the dominant psychic type of creature for Pathfinder and Golarion.

Without actual psionics. Yay!


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber
Diffan wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
HWalsh wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
lighten weapon feat is pretty much a better version of monkey grip
Not a Pathfinder feat. That's a 3pp kobold press feat. Most tables ban all 3pp.
Your experiences are far different from mine.
Yeah, mine either. I can see this in Pathfinder Society but how would anyone know how other home games play? Heck I wouldn't want to play Pathfinder without my beloved Path of War supplement.

I ban it, but only because we use mostly Paizo published material. It would take too much work to balance, IMO. I let 1001 Spells creep in occasionally, but I won't for the next campaign.

A pathfinder version of the Illithid, if they could ever get WoTC to agree, would be awesome.

Shadow Lodge

Other 3rd party material is(usually) more balanced than Paizo materials too, so doesn't need much, if any, work.

I'd love to se of the races come back, like Dracotaur. Wood king was a really cool temp,ate too.


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taks wrote:
I ban it, but only because we use mostly Paizo published material. It would take too much work to balance, IMO.

I agree. I actually can't even see how you could balance it. Like what could you do to the Oracle to bring it down to the Stalker's level comparatively? Beats me.


swoosh wrote:
taks wrote:
I ban it, but only because we use mostly Paizo published material. It would take too much work to balance, IMO.
I agree. I actually can't even see how you could balance it. Like what could you do to the Oracle to bring it down to the Stalker's level comparatively? Beats me.

So the Path of War is banned because it's not powerful enough?


Mind flayers have come back in two forms, the Phrenic Scourge as previously linked (which seems to have a different source than Psionics Unleashed) and then there's the Thulid in the Book of Forbidden Lore which is more of a straight up conversion. You can find it for free online, using search-fu.


Alchemist 23 wrote:


Monkey Grip: Let you hold a two-handed weapon in one hand. This one was OP as hell but you could probably balance it out with a STR 18-20 requirement or worse... probably worse.

Mindflayer / Illithid: Psychic brain eating monster from Cthulhus fan-art collection. I know actual D&D holds a copyright on these guys but come on. We have Psychic classes in the game now and need some Psychic monsters. And these guys are THE Psychic monster. I am sure someone can come up with a replacement version for Pathfinder. Maybe they have proboscis instead of a mouth, tentacles for hair, three eyes, eight fingers per hand, neon-blue skin, and five arms the fifth being in the middle of their chest, and bone like scythes for its four legs. There take it and make some Psychic brain eating monsters.

I have made a file where every armor and weapon have a prerrequ PM me and I will give you the tables.


Gorbacz wrote:
There are dozens of psychic monsters in Pathfinder, starting with the whole Occult Bestiary, and Intellect Devourers are pretty much the replacement for Mind Flayers as far as brain-eating monsters go.

Sure they are, but man, they aren´t Mind Flayers!!

So, perhaps a Cthulhu Mythos from Sandy upcomming early next year i guess


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Instead of bringing things from 3.5 I would love other things comming into game:

Instead of lots and lots of feats, perhaps a rank on a feat (I.E); Iron Will. you need to spend a skill rank on it at any level except the one you take that feat and progress in the nex feat of that chain.

EXAMPLE
_______
Improved Initiative
- Quick Draw (1 rank)
- Rapid Reload (1 rank)
- Fast Armor (1 rank)


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber
swoosh wrote:
taks wrote:
I ban it, but only because we use mostly Paizo published material. It would take too much work to balance, IMO.
I agree. I actually can't even see how you could balance it. Like what could you do to the Oracle to bring it down to the Stalker's level comparatively? Beats me.

No idea. What I do know is that Paizo material was written with Paizo material in mind. I simply don't have time to go through and figure out which rules are compatible on top of the already 1500 or so feats, 45+ classes, and myriad other rules. Your incredulity is rather absurd.

Edit: note, too, that I have access to the majority of Paizo's rules, in my possession, which is not true of third party rules.


taks wrote:
swoosh wrote:
taks wrote:
I ban it, but only because we use mostly Paizo published material. It would take too much work to balance, IMO.
I agree. I actually can't even see how you could balance it. Like what could you do to the Oracle to bring it down to the Stalker's level comparatively? Beats me.

No idea. What I do know is that Paizo material was written with Paizo material in mind. I simply don't have time to go through and figure out which rules are compatible on top of the already 1500 or so feats, 45+ classes, and myriad other rules. Your incredulity is rather absurd.

Edit: note, too, that I have access to the majority of Paizo's rules, in my possession, which is not true of third party rules.

The whole thing with compatibility was absurd at the begining, you as a gm need to do a lot of research when one thing from 3.5 comes to your table.

There are a lot of archetypes doing abilities that were feats in that edition.

also, rogue talents have some of the older feats in it. So, compatibility is a falacy to me. At least for feats.

For prestige classes is kind of the same, there are archetypes doing kind of the same abilities, if you allow them without double check, you will end in a place you dont want to be in the first place


Juda de Kerioth wrote:
taks wrote:
swoosh wrote:
taks wrote:
I ban it, but only because we use mostly Paizo published material. It would take too much work to balance, IMO.
I agree. I actually can't even see how you could balance it. Like what could you do to the Oracle to bring it down to the Stalker's level comparatively? Beats me.

No idea. What I do know is that Paizo material was written with Paizo material in mind. I simply don't have time to go through and figure out which rules are compatible on top of the already 1500 or so feats, 45+ classes, and myriad other rules. Your incredulity is rather absurd.

Edit: note, too, that I have access to the majority of Paizo's rules, in my possession, which is not true of third party rules.

The whole thing with compatibility was absurd at the begining, you as a gm need to do a lot of research when one thing from 3.5 comes to your table.

There are a lot of archetypes doing abilities that were feats in that edition.

also, rogue talents have some of the older feats in it. So, compatibility is a falacy to me. At least for feats.

For prestige classes is kind of the same, there are archetypes doing kind of the same abilities, if you allow them without double check, you will end in a place you dont want to be in the first place

In general at my table I follow this same premise, I do feats on a case by case basis, only after making sure there is not Pathfinder equivalent ability replicated somewhere (there are some very balanced gems out there), but normally I'll give a pass to magic items (specifically weapon and armor enhancements) and spells whose only reason for not existing seems to be closed content problems. And in those scenarios, any Pathfinder update for something comparable will be considered first. Such as Dispelling Touch from 3.5's PHBII needing to actually be worse than PFRPG's Dispel Magic in a way other than being a touch spell.

Some feats, given the existence of certain PFRPG abilities, are still considerably broken (Battle Blessing, Divine Metamagic, etc.).

Honestly, there are some Pathfinder updates that are worse than the 3.5 counterparts, like Magical Lineage being a trait, instead of a feat (Arcane Thesis) that requires you to be at least lvl 5 with full investment into Spellcraft (not that harsh of a restriction, but it did cost a feat instead of a trait.)


Beholders and Mind Flayers are so iconic to the D&D franchise that I really doubt to see them in other games.

As a person that liked to play psionics with the variant rule "magic and psionic powers are the same", I really miss them.

Nothing that was printed in the Epic Manual deserve to be taken into consideration, at all.


Behold the Eye King, a 3pp template from the Advanced Bestiary that turns a creature into a giant floating eyeball that shoots rays from its other eyeballs.


I was under the impression that many 3rd ed splat books aren't covered by the OGL and so their contents will never come back in Pathfinder, at least not without significant revision.


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Moonclanger wrote:

I was under the impression that many 3rd ed splat books aren't covered by the OGL and so their contents will never come back in Pathfinder, at least not without significant revision.

This is for the most part true, but a lot of that was filler that could be and has been revised into newer and better forms, see classes like the Oracle over the Favoured Soul and the Magus over the Duskblade (miss the full BAB though).

We've also gotten different winks and nods to items as well, in Adventurer's Armory 2 we got a straight up better version of the old Nimble Enchantment for armor, which is no longer a magical enhancement that takes up a +1 slot on your armor but is rather a mundane modification that can be put onto any armor you want.

So, some good, some bad.

Divine Metamagic will never come back, rejoice!

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