Spring-Heeled Reaping and Improved / Greater Spring Attack


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

So, how does Spring Heeled Reaping interact with the new improved/greater spring attack feats. Spring heeled reaping gives you a second attack when spring attacking at your full BAB. Improved gives you a second attack at -5 BAB and greater gives a third for ones at -5 and -10 BAB.

Now would you get two attacks at full BAB and then the extras on top of that, or would they just replace each other such that you get one at full, another at full or -5 BAB depending on which feat you use and then a final one at -10?

Liberty's Edge

Technically, per the wording, you choose between them.

I'd absolutely allow stacking as a GM, though.


Ooohhhh... now put them all on a Courser Swashbuckler

Quote:
Swift Strikes (Ex): At 11th level, the courser can spend 1 panache point to target two separate creatures when she uses the Spring Attack feat. She rolls the attack once and compares the result to each target’s Armor Class separately. Additional damage—such as from a critical hit or weapon property—applies to only the first target struck. Her movement still provokes attacks of opportunity normally from any creature she doesn’t attack.

Sovereign Court

Yeah, I have this built on a starknife using Courser. Was just interested if you could get a form of pounce with all these.


I would like to see what some more people think about this.


Spring Heeled Reaping wrote:
While using Spring-Heeled Style, whenever you use Shot on the Run or Spring Attack, you can attack two different creatures at any point in your movement. Each attack is made at your full attack bonus. Any creature that you attack in melee with this feat cannot make attacks of opportunity against you for that movement, as normal for Spring Attack.
Improved Spring Attack wrote:
When you use Spring Attack, you can select two targets to attack during your movement instead of one. The second attack made this way is made at your full base attack bonus – 5. All restrictions of Spring Attack apply to both targets, and your movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity from either target. You can’t target the same creature twice.
Greater Spring Attack wrote:
When you use Spring Attack, you can select three targets to attack during your movement instead of one. The second attack made this way is made at your full base attack bonus – 5, and the third attack made this way is made at your full base attack bonus – 10. All restrictions of Spring Attack apply to each target, and your movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity from any of your targets. You can’t target the same creature more than once.

They don't stack, choose one of them to apply.


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A question made relevant once more by the warrior poet, I assume.

Given the wording, with the specific number of target/attacks pointed out rather than the more forgiving "extra attacks" we'd see otherwise, they should indeed not stack.
But, considering the Spring-Heeled Style feat itself is kind of a waste as it doesn't work with the rest of its own feat tree (or even just Spring Attack), and the end result is good but hardly crazy, I'd allow it.

Still.
Strict RAW ? No stacking.
Not much room for debate on that front, I'm afraid. You can always dicuss it with your GM, though.


Improved and Greater Spring Attack were, indeed, not intended to stack with Spring-Heeled Reaping. That "instead of one" is doing a lot of work here. ^_^

That said, it's probably a reasonable houserule under the correct circumstances and with a GM who knows what they're getting into. I simply prefer to err on the side of caution.


(I would absolutely adopt the PFS clarification for Spring-Heeled Style as a general rule, for the record.)


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I'm glad PFS-play has a more sensible ruling on that, and I'll probably follow it. Still, the Society is not a thing here and anything official would be much better - not that I expect one. The style feat is kinda silly as is, although the ones that come after are nice enough.
Meh.
I'm fine with just houseruling it as a work-around.

More importantly : A big issue I didn't mention with houseruling for stacking is that it can lead to the spring attacker having more attacks than a full-round would allow. That should be avoided.
It's reason enough to either stick with the rules, or add a limiter in case of houseruling.


What is the PFS clarification? I have no idea where to find it.


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I'm guessing it's this one:

Campaign Clarifications wrote:
Page 11—The Spring Heeled Style feat also functions when using a full-round action to use the Spring Attack feat

In the strictest reading, SHS would not work with Spring Attack because SHS only works when you take a move action and Spring Attack is a full-round action. But in PFS (and probably most tables, if it ever comes up), house rule is that they work with each other.

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