Can We Talk About Black Butterfly?

[Deadmanwalking]

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I mean you could just do the leadership thing and get a load of buddies doing a similar thing.

At 20th? Leadership gets you one person who can do the spell at all. And she's gonna make the Save a fair portion of the time (the above build loses 10 Save DC by not being Mythic, so she saves on a 5...possibly less if she has any item that boosts saves).

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I’m avoiding the Dazing thing because RAW I think she can 5ft step and stealth through Daze. Although I think not RAI.

I'm still not buying that, for the record.

[Lemartes]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Lemartes wrote:

What about Raid?

***puff puff...puff***

She's not immune to poison, so it works in theory.

Of course it better be non-magical Raid in a large area with a high Save DC, and even then she can succeed at one Save with Moment of Prescience and then leave the area.

So it tends to fail in practice.

I imagine it like this...me with my little Raid can.

***Sprits sprits...sprits***

Me: ***squints eyes*** ...are you dead?

On second thought I don't have any Raid so the Black Butterfly gets to live another day. :)

[Pizza Lord]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Lemartes wrote:

What about Raid?

***puff puff...puff***

She's not immune to poison, so it works in theory.

Of course it better be non-magical Raid in a large area with a high Save DC, and even then she can succeed at one Save with Moment of Prescience and then leave the area.

So it tends to fail in practice.

Yes, but she's also immune to both ability damage and drain, so it would have to be a poison that does something else, like blue whinnis that knocks her unconscious (and that's not until the secondary effect) or shiver that Firewarrior 44 mentioned. Unless she actually knows what poison it is, she's probably not using her 1/day moment of prescience for a poison save, likely assuming that unless it's magical (assuming AMF) that the save DC will be pretty low, comparatively speaking for an empyreal lord, or that the poison's effects won't harm her. Mostly it would the 1/day thing though.

The poison would also have to be ingested (which isn't likely, since she doesn't have to eat) or injury (for which targeting and hitting is always a challenge) since she doesn't have to breath with her No Breath ability.

I suppose a custom cloudkill spell (which doesn't require the gas to be breathed) with blue whinnis effect might be a good investment (for multiple situations, not Black Butterfly specifically), though in that case it would still count as magic for AMF protection since it has a duration. Nothing stopping making one with an instantaneous duration that just lingers for a time, other than GM rules about custom spellmaking.

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I mean you could just do the leadership thing and get a load of buddies doing a similar thing.

At 20th? Leadership gets you one person who can do the spell at all. And she's gonna make the Save a fair portion of the time (the above build loses 10 Save DC by not being Mythic, so she saves on a 5...possibly less if she has any item that boosts saves).

Fair point. I don’t use leadership so I wouldn’t know.

Could do the Simulacrum thing, what creature would you make? Do Solar pitri shed light constantly? Is that a thing?

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I’m avoiding the Dazing thing because RAW I think she can 5ft step and stealth through Daze. Although I think not RAI.

I'm still not buying that, for the record.

I mean I don’t like it but as written she ignores things that reduce her movement speed or prevent her taking a 5 ft step

Daze does prevent one taking a 5ft step. Sooo
I don’t think it’s RAI though.

[Firewarrior44]

Fighter (Crossbowman) 7 / ??? 13

Over-watch Vortex - 6 feats

Pinpoint Targeting - 2 feats

Point blank master - 2 feats

Quick Draw - 1 feat

Deadly Aim - 1 feat

12 feats total.

Get a ton of masterwork double crossbows with bolts coated in shiver. Overwatch vortex readied actions.

Pew pew 4 times delivering 8 bolts. Ignoring her Dex, Armor, Nat armor to Target an AC of 19). So we can hit this even when inside an anti magic field. As or to hit roll is at least a +26 (20 bab, 7 Dex, 1 mwk, 1 wf, -2 ow vortex).

I assume you can play with the wording on our readied actions in such a way as to stop shooting once she falls asleep. And once she's out I assume we've considered the battle won?

[Firewarrior44]

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I mean you could just do the leadership thing and get a load of buddies doing a similar thing.

At 20th? Leadership gets you one person who can do the spell at all. And she's gonna make the Save a fair portion of the time (the above build loses 10 Save DC by not being Mythic, so she saves on a 5...possibly less if she has any item that boosts saves).

Fair point. I don’t use leadership so I wouldn’t know.

Could do the Simulacrum thing, what creature would you make? Do Solar pitri shed light constantly? Is that a thing?

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I’m avoiding the Dazing thing because RAW I think she can 5ft step and stealth through Daze. Although I think not RAI.

I'm still not buying that, for the record.

I mean I don’t like it but as written she ignores things that reduce her movement speed or prevent her taking a 5 ft step

Daze does prevent one taking a 5ft step. Sooo
I don’t think it’s RAI though.

So does unconsciousness and by extension death :/

[Bob Bob Bob]

So I would have said that some people are arguing that even Mythic can't kill her but they may have left already.

If you just need an arbitrary swarm of guys there's always the Noble Scion route. Noble Scion can get a cohort of equal level (at 10). So make your cohort also a Noble Scion, etc. etc. It also makes sense as nobility was frequently served by lesser nobility. But you literally end up with infinite cohorts of cohorts and gold, so you can see why everyone considers it cheesy.

[Lady-J]

Quote:

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I mean you could just do the leadership thing and get a load of buddies doing a similar thing.

At 20th? Leadership gets you one person who can do the spell at all. And she's gonna make the Save a fair portion of the time (the above build loses 10 Save DC by not being Mythic, so she saves on a 5...possibly less if she has any item that boosts saves).

Fair point. I don’t use leadership so I wouldn’t know.

Could do the Simulacrum thing, what creature would you make? Do Solar pitri shed light constantly? Is that a thing?

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I’m avoiding the Dazing thing because RAW I think she can 5ft step and stealth through Daze. Although I think not RAI.

I'm still not buying that, for the record.

I mean I don’t like it but as written she ignores things that reduce her movement speed or prevent her taking a 5 ft step

Daze does prevent one taking a 5ft step. Sooo
I don’t think it’s RAI though.

if you boost your caster level enough you can sililacrum Lucifer the prince of darkness and then do it again and again until you run out of spell slots of that level and then just have an army of Lucifers killing her

[Firewarrior44]

Lucifer's 3rd Party so i don't think he counts

[Lady-J]

Firewarrior44 wrote:

Lucifer's 3rd Party so i don't think he counts

then you can make a bunch of Cthulhus

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

Cthulus really inconvenient to have around.

Methuselah would be much more handy. Can you Simalucrum unique beings?

[Firewarrior44]

Yes because there's basically no limits on the spell in Pathifnder

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

Well then the solution is obvious no?
Kill her with black butterfly.

Also I still think Solar Pitri shed light.

[Zwordsman]

Didnt' read anything but what occurs to me is simply.. "can't be outlined by spells" soo.. fill the room with flour or smoke. something that naturally creates an outline.

[Volkard Abendroth]

Lady-J wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Uh, probably the same place you get even one 20th level character. From the Demi-GMs known as Players.

You run 10 player games?!

one of the gms i know once ran a game for 42(or was is 43) players

How many game sessions between turns?

Or was this a PbP?

[Lady-J]

Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Uh, probably the same place you get even one 20th level character. From the Demi-GMs known as Players.

You run 10 player games?!

one of the gms i know once ran a game for 42(or was is 43) players

How many game sessions between turns?

Or was this a PbP?

i think each person was allotted 2 mins of game time per turn maximum in combat not to sure what they did out of combat tho, if you didn't know what your characters actions were going to be by your turn in combat you lost your turn and couldn't do anything till your next turn and while i kinda wish i could have been there(also glad i wasn't it was 3.5 and i hate 3.5) it would have been like doing molten core in wow back in the day but with table top game mechanics

[Volkard Abendroth]

Lady-J wrote:

Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Uh, probably the same place you get even one 20th level character. From the Demi-GMs known as Players.

You run 10 player games?!

one of the gms i know once ran a game for 42(or was is 43) players

How many game sessions between turns?

Or was this a PbP?

i think each person was allotted 2 mins of game time per turn maximum in combat not to sure what they did out of combat tho, if you didn't know what your characters actions were going to be by your turn in combat you lost your turn and couldn't do anything till your next turn and while i kinda wish i could have been there(also glad i wasn't it was 3.5 and i hate 3.5) it would have been like doing molten core in wow back in the day but with table top game mechanics

So, ~1.5 hours between turns with a 2 minute time allocation?

I'll Stick with LARPing for my large scale games.

[Lady-J]

Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Uh, probably the same place you get even one 20th level character. From the Demi-GMs known as Players.

You run 10 player games?!

one of the gms i know once ran a game for 42(or was is 43) players

How many game sessions between turns?

Or was this a PbP?

i think each person was allotted 2 mins of game time per turn maximum in combat not to sure what they did out of combat tho, if you didn't know what your characters actions were going to be by your turn in combat you lost your turn and couldn't do anything till your next turn and while i kinda wish i could have been there(also glad i wasn't it was 3.5 and i hate 3.5) it would have been like doing molten core in wow back in the day but with table top game mechanics

So, ~1.5 hours between turns with a 2 minute time allocation?

I'll Stick with LARPing for my large scale games.

not necessarily its a 2min max people can still go under the 2 mins if some one is paying attention and pre plans their turn they have have it be done in like 15 seconds

[Volkard Abendroth]

Lady-J wrote:

not necessarily its a 2min max people can still go under the 2 mins if some one is paying attention and pre plans their turn they have have it be done in like 15 seconds

I don't know how many games you've played in, or at what level range, but it takes longer than that just to roll a handful of dice and determine the results. That's not including the declaration of actions taken, any rolls that may be required by the DM (e.g. saving throws), movement of figures, etc.

Even knowing exactly what I want to do and having all dice lined up before hand I would be very rushed attempting to complete a turn in under two minutes.

[Isonaroc]

Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

not necessarily its a 2min max people can still go under the 2 mins if some one is paying attention and pre plans their turn they have have it be done in like 15 seconds

I don't know how many games you've played in, or at what level range, but it takes longer than that just to roll a handful of dice and determine the results. That's not including the declaration of actions taken, any rolls that may be required by the DM (e.g. saving throws), movement of figures, etc.

Even knowing exactly what I want to do and having all dice lined up before hand I would be very rushed attempting to complete a turn in under two minutes.

With that much planning time you could just preroll. When your turn rolls around you just say "Full attack, I got 23, 11, and 12" or similar. If nothing else happens to screw that up your turn just took about 5 seconds. Still, I'd never want to play in a game that large. Ever.