pjrogers |
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pjrogers wrote:1) There is an additional absolute limit. Mounts for cavaliers and paladins MUST be at least one size larger than the rider.I'm unaware of this rule for PFS. My understanding is that they must pick from their list. Can you point me where I can see this rule?
It's from the Organized Play FAQ.
Chess Pwn |
Thomas Hutchins wrote:It's from the Organized Play FAQ.pjrogers wrote:1) There is an additional absolute limit. Mounts for cavaliers and paladins MUST be at least one size larger than the rider.I'm unaware of this rule for PFS. My understanding is that they must pick from their list. Can you point me where I can see this rule?
That isn't saying you can't ride a creature the same size as you. That FAQ is talking about the mount class feature and that you can select small boar at lv4 as a halfling. That the mount from your class feature must be one size larger. Not that they can't use something as a mount that is smaller than that.
EDITED*
pjrogers |
That isn't saying you can't ride a creature the same size as you. That FAQ is talking about the mount class feature and that you can select small wolf at lv7 as a halfling. That the mount from your class feature must be one size larger. Not that they can't use something as a mount that is smaller than that.
I'm not sure I'd fully agree, but this interpretation does lead to a question. Cavaliers, for example, have a number of special features that they can do while "mounted," ie. Cavalier's Charge, Mighty Charge, and Supreme Charge. Could they do this while riding an animal the same size as themselves, say a human on a pony? In other words, are they as effective at mounted combat on such an animal as they would be on their formal "mount?"
Chess Pwn |
So, when I'm GMing at a PFS table, would it be reasonable for me to say this absolute limit on mount size relative to rider size applies to all PCs for the reason I noted above? That reason being that since cavaliers and paladins are mounted combat specialists, any limits on their mount choice should apply to all other classes that are not similarly specialized.
I think you're missing the point. They are mount specialists, they aren't going to choose a mount as a class feature that isn't suitable for them to ride. Not that they can't physically ride something smaller than them, but their class feature is limited to suitable mounts.
Druids and whatnot get an animal that they may or may not try to ride. And picking an unsuitable mount give them penalties to riding. It's because they aren't specialized that they'd pick an animal that wasn't a proper mount for them.
Now granted, whatever you feel the rules say is what you should rule at a PFS table as GM. I know that I do for mounted charge rules and many people don't like my interpretation because it causes mounted combat to "not work as probably intended", but I feel it's what the rules currently say and no one has been able to provide enough support for me to abandon that view.
Nefreet |
Thomas Hutchins wrote:That isn't saying you can't ride a creature the same size as you. That FAQ is talking about the mount class feature and that you can select small wolf at lv7 as a halfling. That the mount from your class feature must be one size larger. Not that they can't use something as a mount that is smaller than that.I'm not sure I'd fully agree, but this interpretation does lead to a question. Cavaliers, for example, have a number of special features that they can do while "mounted," ie. Cavalier's Charge, Mighty Charge, and Supreme Charge. Could they do this while riding an animal the same size as themselves, say a human on a pony? In other words, are they as effective at mounted combat on such an animal as they would be on their formal "mount?"
If it's something they've trained for or are naturally good at, such as having the Undersized Mount feat, or being a Dwarf on a Pony, then they'd do just fine.
But a Human just hopping on a Riding Dog wouldn't be able to.
Chess Pwn |
Thomas Hutchins wrote:That isn't saying you can't ride a creature the same size as you. That FAQ is talking about the mount class feature and that you can select small wolf at lv7 as a halfling. That the mount from your class feature must be one size larger. Not that they can't use something as a mount that is smaller than that.I'm not sure I'd fully agree, but this interpretation does lead to a question. Cavaliers, for example, have a number of special features that they can do while "mounted," ie. Cavalier's Charge, Mighty Charge, and Supreme Charge. Could they do this while riding an animal the same size as themselves, say a human on a pony? In other words, are they as effective at mounted combat on such an animal as they would be on their formal "mount?"
They would have the -5 for an unsuitable mount to ride checks. Assuming they are able to make any checks needed to do such maneuvers I don't see why they wouldn't work. The unsuitable mount choice has its penalties in it, it doesn't spill over into other class features to make them suddenly not work.
Nefreet |
I know that I do for mounted charge rules and many people don't like my interpretation because it causes mounted combat to "not work as probably intended", but I feel it's what the rules currently say and no one has been able to provide enough support for me to abandon that view.
This is a good comparison.
Chess Pwn |
Thomas Hutchins wrote:I know that I do for mounted charge rules and many people don't like my interpretation because it causes mounted combat to "not work as probably intended", but I feel it's what the rules currently say and no one has been able to provide enough support for me to abandon that view.This is a good comparison.
right, there's finally been SOMETHING to support the view of limited riding. Now there's justification for the choice and people can't force a PFS GM to read it a certain way without clarification.
Now I feel the context is being read wrong and thus I won't accept it as support to change my view, but at least there's something for the other view to exist on.pjrogers |
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Now granted, whatever you feel the rules say is what you should rule at a PFS table as GM.
Given the current state of the mount/mounted combat rules, that's the best that any of us can do. After taking part in this discussion, I'm much comfortable seeing my interpretations as reasonable. And for that, I'm grateful to all who have taken part.
Ascalaphus Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden |
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I disagree with the sentiment that paladins and cavaliers set the standard for what are rideable mounts. They're very conservative classes, only using pretty low-fantasy mounts. We have other mounted classes; Hunters have a significant mounted teamwork component without one mention in the class that "you should really stick to horses for that". Mammoth riders, beast rider cavaliers and various ethnic stereotypes archetypes have entirely different mount options too.
Slim Jim |
I disagree with the sentiment that paladins and cavaliers set the standard for what are rideable mounts. They're very conservative classes, only using pretty low-fantasy mounts.
Oh heck no. As powerful martial classes, they get the crappiest of available mounts, and have to work at it to make them better than a sohei monk on a store-bought warhorse prior to the high-level game. "Truck" (T-rex) builds make 'em look lame, and a Hunter/Mammoth Rider on a huge arsinoitherium or mastodon will stomp even those into manhole covers.
(Smuggling your gigantic megafauna into the BBEG's high-society function is another matter; the paladin has you beat there: he snaps his fingers and *poof*, there's his horse standing next to the punch-bowl.)
BigNorseWolf |
Kalindlara Contributor |
BigNorseWolf |
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Easiest way: A toilet paper roll full of scrolls that you hand to a party caster and an apple so that the horse is friendly+ to them. its on almost every casters spell list.
I would avoid a potion, because "you may return the creature to its normal form at any time simply by placing the figurine on the ground, touching it, and uttering a word of command.
So if the horse drinks the potion they have to unstone themselves or you need a dispel magic.
If you need to be self sufficient there's hosteling armor or shields, but its rather expensive (if cool and thematic)
Hmm Venture-Captain, Minnesota |