Masterwork Agile Breastplate & Medium Load - Jump & Climb ACP

[HSalgo]

Hey, everyone. I've got a quick question. I have a character wearing masterwork Agile Breastplate and carrying a medium load. What is the armor check penalty (ACP) for his Jump & Climb checks?

Normally, masterwork Agile Breastplate has an ACP of -3 to all skills except Jump & Climb, whose ACP is 0. However, medium loads also cause an ACP of -3, and the Carrying Capacity entry says that you should take the worse penalty between load and armor in each category (ACP, Max Dex, etc.). Does this mean that the medium load overwrites the benefits of the Agile Breastplate (and thus Jump & Climb have an ACP of -3) or does the Agile Breastplate entry still stand (and thus Jump & Climb have an ACP of 0)?

This question should apply to Agile Half-Plate and heavy loads too, but I couldn't find an answer to that question online either.

The GM I've been playing with tells me not to worry about it, and that we only need to worry about this kind of stuff when the load exceeds the armor (e.g. heavy load & medium armor), but http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p0q2?Encumberance-from-Medium-Load-and-Medium- Armor suggests that you're technically supposed to consider both simultaneously. (Could I get this verified?)

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers. I'm a rather new Pathfinder player, so any help is appreciated.

[Gauss]

It is the worst of the two, in the case of Agile Breastplate and Medium load it is -3 for Jump and Climb.

Your GM is making a houserule because *normally* the penalty for medium load is less than the penalty for medium armor. However, specific armors and abilities can alter this. You found such an example.

The same answers apply to Heavy armor and heavy load.

Summary: The normal rule is to check both and use the worst.

- Gauss

[HSalgo]

Thanks for the quick response! I hope that this is the general consensus; it honestly never became an issue until we were trying to jump a stream, and I wasn't sure which ACP to use for the Jump skill.

I think that the reasoning our GM had was based on a quote from http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/carrying-capacity: "If you want to determine whether your character's gear is heavy enough to slow him down more than his armor already does, total the weight of all the character's items, including armor, weapons, and gear" (emphasis mine). To simplify things, he chooses to treat medium loads and medium armors as equivalent, and we only need to worry about additional penalties if the load became heavy.

It's just unfortunate, because Masterwork Breastplate and Masterwork Agile Breastplate are equivalent if you're carrying a medium load then; the extra 200 gp only saves you 5 lbs.

[Gauss]

HSalgo,

Your GM is over-simplifying it (which is his right). As per the quote below, you are supposed to use the worst of the two. There are a number of instances where Medium Armor and Medium encumbrance produce different results.

For example, a level 3 Fighter wearing Masterwork Breast Plate with the Armor Expert trait will have an armor check penalty of -1. However, if he has a strength of 12 (perhaps he is an archer) he will be medium encumbered from his armor and gear.

CRB p169 wrote:

If your character is wearing armor, use the worse figure (from armor or from load) for each category. Do not stack the penalties.

In any case, your GM is using a house rule to ignore carrying capacity in specific circumstances. That may create odd situations.

There are a number of groups that ignore encumbrance in part or entirely because it may be tedious. I deal with the tedious nature of encumbrance by using a character sheet that adds up my encumbrance for me, though I still have to put in the specific item's weight.

- Gauss

[HSalgo]

Sounds good! Thanks for the clarifications, Gauss. Could I ask what character sheet you use to manage the encumbrance? I've been using an Excel spreadsheet, but it's a little awkward to use.

[Gauss]

Here you go: Abellius form fillable character sheets

- Gauss

[HSalgo]

Thanks a ton!