If you are willing to give up Evasion (you can pick it back up as an advanced talent, ninja trick, or get a ring of evasion), the Underground Chemist is a good option for you. If you are ok with variant multiclass (you trade away feats at the specified levels, total of 5), I suggest the Alchemist VMC option.
Underground chemist gives you sneak attack with alchemical items, you get bombs (alchemical splash weapons) to throw with VMC. And you can pick up bomb modifications with rogue talents on/after level 10.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
1. Martial weapon proficiency(Elven Curved Blade)
2.
3. Arcane Pool (-2 level), finesse training (Elven Curved Blade)
4. Uncanny Dodge
5. Craft Wondrous Item, Rogue's Edge(Stealth)
6.
7. Magus Arcana (Prescient Attack )
8. Forgotten Trick
9. Iron will
10. Rogue's Edge (Climb)
11. Spellstrike, finesse training (Slams)
12. Double Debilitation
13. Spell Penetration
14.
15. Magus Arcana (Bane Blade), Rogue's Edge(Perception)
16. Skill Mastery
17. Greater Spell Penetration
18.
19. Magus Arcana (Ki Arcana), finesse training (Bite)
20. Cutting Edge(Disable Device, Escape Artist), Rogue's Edge(Acrobatics)
consider your Rogue's Edge skills: possibly stealth, sleight of hand, disable device, disguise, bluff.
rogue talents: Black Market Connections? (to get all those alchemical goodies), Combat Swipe if you want to steal in mid-combat (however you're just gonna take those things when they're dead, right?), Fast Getaway, Minor Magic (prestidigitation or mage hand to help pickpocket from a distance), Ninja Trick (vanish),
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you for giving advice, but neither one of those is what I'm looking for.
I, definitely, do not want to give up evasion, nor do I want to create the alchemical things, just use them.
And the 2nd poster, not one mention of anything even resembling fighting with knives.I want to be an awesome thief, but still be somewhat effective in combat dual-wielding and throwing daggers/knives. Using alchemical and rarely used items to do my job and get away clean. I also want a decent int score for know ledges. Gotta know who I'm stealing from and what it is, too.
Are you willing to delay evasion?
The draw of the Underground Chemist is being able to draw alchemical items as if they were a weapon and getting sneak attack with splash weapons. It would also make it much cheaper (via crafting) to use those alchemical items.
As for the daggers portion, going Unchained Rogue would give you Weapon Finesse with them. At third level you would be able to take them as the weapon for Dex to Damage.
The River Rat trait would give you +1 damage with daggers.
If you are playing in Golarian and the GM allows Deitic Obediences, you could worship Pharasma and gain a bonus +2 to hit with daggers from that feat. That may not work with what you have described of your character so far.
In order to improve your combat abilities, you could multiclass with Unchained Barbarian. The rage used by them would work with daggers even when using Weapon Finesse. Another option for multiclassing would be Swashbuckler, but then your other saves will be quite low.
Feats you are going to want to look at include Weapon Focus (Dagger), Quick Draw (so you can throw them), and the two weapon fighting feats.
Eventually you will want to get either the Blinkback Belt or dagger of doubling so that you can throw the daggers and have them come back. The dagger of doubling is better because it allows you to throw it at full rate and doesn’t use the belt slot that you want for pumping your Dex.
Since Combat Trick can only be used once as a rogue talent and this is likely to be a feat intensive build, you will want to carefully chart out your feats.
Other than that, there isn’t much more I can think of that can be done given the restrictions you’ve mentioned.
Thank you for giving advice, but neither one of those is what I'm looking for.
I, definitely, do not want to give up evasion, nor do I want to create the alchemical things, just use them.
And the 2nd poster, not one mention of anything even resembling fighting with knives.I want to be an awesome thief, but still be somewhat effective in combat dual-wielding and throwing daggers/knives. Using alchemical and rarely used items to do my job and get away clean. I also want a decent int score for know ledges. Gotta know who I'm stealing from and what it is, too.
I would specifically recommend against dual-wielding knives on a rogue.
Take a look at the Slayer class. Basically stabby rogue without party face skills.
An investigator has a reason to have high int and can dual wield daggers well with studied combat.
I'm wanting some advice on building an Elf unchained rogue.Elf = dumped Con = rough time in melee. You're going to need a way to get your Fort save and your hitpoints up. The iconic Merisiel doesn't work very well out of low-level. (Queue the cacophonous chorus of "Rogues suck!" that had shrieked across the messagebase for years.)
What I'm wanting: All the normal rogue stuff (stealth, trap stuff, thief style things like sleight of hand and appraise.) I want to be a thief, not an assassin. I want to go knives, alchemical weapons (splash weapons), caltrops and cool stuff like thatThe purpose of weapons is to kill things. Assassins are good at killing things and sneaking away without getting caught. Rogues make good assassins due to an abundance of skills and a built-in nova mechanic (sneak-attack).
, things that aren't usually used. I don't really want to do many "face" type things.The good news is that if you eschew social skills, you can keep just about every other class skill completely maxed.
I don't want to go knife master because I still want to find trapsGood idea.
and I really don't want to multiclass.
Well, that's the hard part. This is a fighting game for most of us (e.g., PFS, etc). Your character will not get to just shinny around rooftops stealing jewels full-time and be able to never get away with getting his hands dirty.
The build below is multiclass. It'll give you some idea of potential capability that will be lost if you elect for straight-class instead.
elf 20pt
str 14
dex 17+
con 12-
int 12+
wis 14
cha 07
traits: Group Fighter,
1. barbarian1 (no archetype)(move+10), Two Weapon Fighting
2. rogue1 (Bandit archetype, weapon finesse)
3. cleric1 (travel + community domains), Accomplished Sneak Attacker
4. rogue2 (Dodge, or rogue talent)
5. rogue3 Mobility or Quick Draw
Equipment at 6th-ish: Boots of Swift Fury
Benefits over straight rogue:
* front-loaded hitpoints and medium armor proficiency
* on-demand rage STR 18 with any martial weapon (i.e., not stuck with a single one-trick-pony Unchained finesses weapon)
* +3 fort save, +2 will save (+2 to both raging)
* fix your owies and remove conditions instead of wasting consumables
* move of 60'
* many more class skills to enjoy that +3 bonus
* AC+4 (with boots, +8 if also Mobility) versus AoOs while moving through threatened zones
Note: this character does not have Extra Rage because it is used sparingly, mainly for emergencies. Aside from the 12hp, the additional movement is very important for melee knife-work.
rogues are bad at combat, that's why it seems like we are suggesting to you the most effective build ever, it's because that amount of work lets your rogue "not suck really bad" and not "be a bystander during fights"
and if your focus is skills you should really be looking at a class that is good at skills rather than a rogue.
Minor correction:
elf 20pt
str 14
dex 17+
con 12-
int 12+
wis 14
cha 07
That's a 15,14,14,14,12,7 array, so the 12 in Int is actually a 14 (unless, for some insane reason, you'd like a 16 there and a 10 in Con...no, don't do that).
Plan on chucking alchemist's fires and the like? Then you want the Hybridization Funnel, and yes, you want Craft Alchemy. Mix an Alchemist's Fire with an Acid Flask; get the effects of both on a single throw! Or combine other alchemical items. Makes your splash weapons more effective, generally.
Unless you're an actual alchemist, I wouldn't invest feats in this stuff. 1d6 fire and acid are straight worthless once enemies pick up their DR:5.
Most of that junk isn't as useful as an ordinary Tanglefoot bag anyway (since monster reflex saves scale rather poorly, and humanoid NPV casters, especially clerics, are downright awful at it).
rogues are bad at combat...
They're bad in toe-to-toe slugfests unless they're carefully built to avoid damage (and that is where most players screw up, as they're all about offense). Rogues have fewer hitpoints than other martials and lose BAB, and must be conscious about that. Dodge and Mobility let them deliver their sneak-attack nova damage while keeping enemy hits down to a minimum. They will survive attribution. The rogue who dives head-first into Weapon Focus and Piranha Strike is not building to survive attrition, and goes down after eating a pair of big ones.
- - -
Btw, the Bandit archetype forfeits Uncanndy Dodge. Get it back with....
X. barbarian2 (Uncanny Dodge)(rage power: Swift Foot, or Celestial Totem: Lesser)