Can you scar a moster with regeneration?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I have a character who was a slave for oni as a young adult. When he escaped, he left his captor alive and wanted to carve something into him as a reminder. I know oni have regeneration and it would just heal over. Is there anything this character could have done storywise for this to work, or is this just one of those situations where it works because it adds flavor?


Ambiguous enough to be a GM call (i.e. should work fine for flavor); regeneration heals damage, not necessarily all signs of damage. For instance, if you cut off his head, then held it to the body so it re-attached, the natural process might well leave a ring of scar tissue. It wouldn't impair them, and it probably wouldn't be huge (or regenerating monsters would be literally covered with scar tissue), but it could easily be there. Damage from the attack forms that temporarily stop regeneration is a better candidate than other damage, of course.

Scarab Sages

I vaguely recall Oni being a bit like trolls in regard to their regeneration so I'd personally treat them the same. That is normally all damage is healed with scars/permanent injury the exception being damage done with their kryptonite.

So a Troll for instance can be permanently killed with fire so you hack away at it with a sword, cut its tendons, half sever an arm and then step back it'll heal all that damage 100% not a mark left behind. On the other paw you burn it that damage doesn't regenerate it has to heal slowly and naturally and will leave burn scars and possibly further impeded it in the future.

So with your Oni (depending on the type, not all Oni even have regeneration as I recall) you probably wouldn't be able to carve something into him but you could burn it. Some are also vulnerable to acid and that would work too if you have any. It'd also provide a real reason for him to hate you personally for ruining his good looks.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I dunno, did he happen to acquire his regeneration from a crazy night hag?


Senko wrote:

I vaguely recall Oni being a bit like trolls in regard to their regeneration so I'd personally treat them the same. That is normally all damage is healed with scars/permanent injury the exception being damage done with their kryptonite.

So a Troll for instance can be permanently killed with fire so you hack away at it with a sword, cut its tendons, half sever an arm and then step back it'll heal all that damage 100% not a mark left behind. On the other paw you burn it that damage doesn't regenerate it has to heal slowly and naturally and will leave burn scars and possibly further impeded it in the future.

So with your Oni (depending on the type, not all Oni even have regeneration as I recall) you probably wouldn't be able to carve something into him but you could burn it. Some are also vulnerable to acid and that would work too if you have any. It'd also provide a real reason for him to hate you personally for ruining his good looks.

Not quite. Troll regeneration will heal fire and acid damage just fine - just not on the round it is done (nor does it heal any other type of damage that round). Fire/acid will shut down the regeneration for a single round, but other than that is is no different from other sources of damage, and heals the same.

Now in 3.5 D&D you would be correct. But regeneration changed in Pathfinder.


Well the thing is, scarred tissue is toughened, in your body’s way of trying to prevent that damage from happening again. If creatures with regeneration could gain scars, it would say that after a certain amount of time and/or amount of damage healed, they’d increase their natural armor bonus from being covered all over in scar tissue. Since it doesn’t say this, no, you cannot give a creature with regeneration scars.

That’s my take on it though. Feel free to disagree if you want, just know that you will be going against science if you disagree.


Creatures that heal naturally (i.e. everything that isn't a construct or undead) would also have a similar effect. Are you saying that scarring isn't possible for humans?


Renata Maclean wrote:
Creatures that heal naturally (i.e. everything that isn't a construct or undead) would also have a similar effect. Are you saying that scarring isn't possible for humans?

Not at the level of a creature with regeneration, who can survive much harsher wounds, such as having entire limbs cut off and reattached. This means, assuming they get scars, they can get scarred tissue in places a human can’t, unless that human has something like contingency (cure serious wounds) cast on him before each would be fatal attack, and even that wouldn’t get scarred tissue as deep as a creature who, as I just said, can have an entire limb cut off and reattached.

EDIT: Not to mention that even if humans could get the same level of wounds, a creature with regeneration can do so faster than the human, so it would be likely that the human just never gets to the point of increased toughness from scarred tissue, unless they artificially increase the rate they receive injuries.


There is at least some precedent of gaining increased defenses from scar tissue. At least if you are a hobgoblin.

Quote:
Scarred: A hobgoblin can scar himself with both blade and fire to toughen his hide into a mass of horny scars. Hobgoblins with this racial trait gain a +1 natural armor bonus to Armor Class. However, the repeated exposure to fire permanently damages their eyes. This racial trait replaces the darkvision racial trait.

If anything, a decent amount of scaring could be justification to take the Improved Natural Armor feat. Something must be happening to increase the toughness of your skin. Could very well be extensive scaring.

Scarab Sages

So my treatment of it still works its just gone from healing over time rather than regenerating to delayed regenartion with scars rather than smooth, normal skin regeneration I guess.


I am going to say 'yes, they can scar'. Mostly because official artwork for the troll (I am explicitly referencing the the troll with the hammer and knife; I am sure you can find with with a google for 'pathfinder troll') has scars. There scars are also included on the mini of the same design ('troll champion' in the paizo store).

While there are questions of how much you can judge from the artwork used... it is still one of the most prominent examples of a paizo troll. And it isn't like this has a serious rules effect. It is fluff evidence for a fluff question. So lets run with that.

I would argue that a troll can be scarred, but not for long. Scars also fade in humans over time. so maybe the troll would be scarred for a few days or weeks depending on the severity of the scar (if I had to give a rule for that, then large single hits give more severe scars; burn or acid scars are automatically considered severe).

This could be a story hook- you have to track down a specific troll that can be identified with a specific scar it got from a recent battle. You have to hurry before the scar heals and you lose the only identifying detail you have.


If it is for aesthetic/role play reasons then yes.

Have you ever heard of the shaman kobold that got eaten by a red dragon because he failed to regenerate his master's left eye lost in a battle against a party of brave heroes? What a good guy he was.


It depends on if you attempt to derive a mechanical benefit from a descriptive element.
Generally regeneration does not leave scars. It can leave scars as a descriptive element that has no mechanical benefit or penalty.


If you use whatever type of damage bypasses the regeneration, I don't see why it wouldn't leave a scar. A torch or vial of acid would do damage the regeneration couldn't touch, so it would have to heal normally without magical aid, which means scars.


Shadowborn wrote:
If you use whatever type of damage bypasses the regeneration, I don't see why it wouldn't leave a scar. A torch or vial of acid would do damage the regeneration couldn't touch, so it would have to heal normally without magical aid, which means scars.

Again, that is wrong. Actually read the regeneration rules. They changed in Pathfinder. Regeneration now heals all forms of damage. Certain types of damage shut down the regeneration for a single round, but the next round that damage starts to heal again.

Troll regeneration will heal fire and acid damage just fine. It just won't heal it the round it is done, but will start healing it the next round (unless more fire or acid is applied). It also means that, unlike 3.5 D&D, all you need is a single point of fire or acid damage to kill a troll (provided you beat it down into negatives first) instead of having to deal all the damage in fire or acid.


Jeraa wrote:
Troll regeneration will heal fire and acid damage just fine. It just won't heal it the round it is done, but will start healing it the next round (unless more fire or acid is applied). It also means that, unlike 3.5 D&D, all you need is a single point of fire or acid damage to kill a troll (provided you beat it down into negatives first) instead of having to deal all the damage in fire or acid.

Why did they make that change? The other way is much more intuitive IMHO.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
Troll regeneration will heal fire and acid damage just fine. It just won't heal it the round it is done, but will start healing it the next round (unless more fire or acid is applied). It also means that, unlike 3.5 D&D, all you need is a single point of fire or acid damage to kill a troll (provided you beat it down into negatives first) instead of having to deal all the damage in fire or acid.
Why did they make that change? The other way is much more intuitive IMHO.

Intuitive in that it makes more sense sure. But it's a pain to have two perpetrate HP tracks for regenable damage vs permanent. I personally prefer less busy work but that's me.


Jeraa wrote:
Troll regeneration will heal fire and acid damage just fine. It just won't heal it the round it is done, but will start healing it the next round (unless more fire or acid is applied). It also means that, unlike 3.5 D&D, all you need is a single point of fire or acid damage to kill a troll (provided you beat it down into negatives first) instead of having to deal all the damage in fire or acid.

I could still see an argument that it doesn't heal 'right' (thus a scar). It is a kind of damage that temporarily messes up its natural regeneration. it is like picking at a scab- it might make it scar because it doesn't go through its proper healing method.


scar and Scar
"Thus, scarring is a natural part of the healing process. With the exception of very minor lesions, every wound (e.g., after accident, disease, or surgery) results in some degree of scarring. An exception to this are animals with complete regeneration, which regrow tissue without scar formation."


Add a bit of grit or other unwanted material and I expect the oni's skin will scar nicely around that material.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Can you scar a moster with regeneration? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in General Discussion